Pope vows he won’t be slowed down by ‘ultra-conservatives’

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http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/i...t__LOsservatore_Romano_CNA_6_15_15.jpgVatican City, Jul 4, 2016 / 10:42 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In his most recently-published interview, Pope Francis expressed his dislike of conflict with so-called “ultra conservative” Catholics, but added that he’s not held back by it.

“They do their work and I do mine,” the Pope said in Spanish during his interview with Joaquín Morales Solá, a journalist of the Argentine daily La Nacion, published July 3.

It was Morales who used the term “ultraconservatives” in his question.

Francis responded, saying, “I want an open, understanding Church which accompanies wounded families,” whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.”

However, the Roman Pontiff suggested he was undeterred by such attitudes.

“I continue my path without looking over my shoulder,” he said. “I don’t cut off heads. I have never liked doing that.”

“I repeat: I reject conflict.”

Morales said Francis smiled when he gave his final, cryptic remarks to the question.

“Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top. Or, they are set aside to rest, when retirement age arrives.”

The question regarding ultraconservatives was an aside from the bulk of the interview.

The interview with La Nacion, which is based in Buenos Aires, was largely centered on Argentine politics and the state of the Church in that country.

Full article…
 
DeniseNY said:
What is an “ultra conservative”?
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I suppose it’d be someone who never wants any changes to anything? I’ve never met anyone like this, though. Just about every lay/religious/clergy I know sees a need for changes… the divisions seem to hinge on matters of what kinds of changes are most appropriate.
 
The Holy Father seems to have no patience for those deemed “too traditional” or “too conservative” (and I do not deny that there can be serious problems in the “far right” wing of the Church), but nearly infinite patience for those on the “far left”. I am still personally hurt and scandalized that Cardinal Danneels was extended a personal invitation to the synod by the Holy Father…
 
RPRPsych said:
I suspect Papa Francis is referring to folks like this:

whatisupwiththesynod.com

akacatholic.com

novusordowatch.org

(warning, I am not responsible for any physical or mental injury incurred by clicking on those links. :))
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And these types have great and concerning influence in the Church Universal? Their influence is almost non-existent in the scheme of things…I very, very, very, very much doubt the Holy Father is referring to these groups. From context, it seems pretty clear that he is referring to cardinals and bishops with real influence (the talk of retirement age etc)
 
twf said:
And these types have great and concerning influence in the Church Universal?
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Not great, but certainly more than most of us would care to admit. 🙂
Their influence is almost non-existent in the scheme of things…I very, very, very, very much doubt the Holy Father is referring to these groups.
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Remember the Montanists and Donatists? It could happen again. Things are much more polarized than they were under Benedict XVI. Even our local Indian “conservative” blog, which usually just complains about yoga and syncretism, is now copying and pasting talking points from sites like the ones I quoted. (No links, the dude doesn’t need more attention. :D)
From context, it seems pretty clear that he is referring to cardinals and bishops with real influence (the talk of retirement age etc)
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He could also be referring to the SSPX for all we know. He’s deliberately keeping it vague. 😉
 
Well–perhaps we need to determine what is meant by, “no to everything.”

I don’t know any person who says no to everything.
 
It was Morales who used the term “ultraconservatives” in his question.
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Francis responded, saying, “I want an open, understanding Church which accompanies wounded families,” whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.”
Click to expand...
However, the Roman Pontiff suggested he was undeterred by such attitudes.
Click to expand...
“I continue my path without looking over my shoulder,” he said. “I don’t cut off heads. I have never liked doing that.”
Click to expand...
“I repeat: I reject conflict.”
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And yet, these comments appear to ***invite ***conflict! How does saying; whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.” not invite conflict? It would appear to broad-brush all those who hold to traditional conservative views. But then again…it could be just me.

Peace, Mark
 
Mark121359 said:
And yet, these comments appear to ***invite ***conflict! How does saying; whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.” not invite conflict? It would appear to broad-brush all those who hold to traditional conservative views. But then again…it could be just me.

Peace, Mark
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The term “untra-conservative” was used by the interviewer, not the Holy father. And the term ultra-conservative doesn’t equate to “all who hold to traditional conservative views.” Don’t read more into this than is there.

It is like all those who thought there was a massive gay conspiracy in the Vatican when Pope Benedict referred to a ‘gay lobby.’ It ended up being about 5 clerics.

Don’t jump to conclusions with little to no evidence.
 
Mark121359 said:
And yet, these comments appear to ***invite ***conflict! How does saying; whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.” not invite conflict? It would appear to broad-brush all those who hold to traditional conservative views. But then again…it could be just me.

Peace, Mark
Click to expand...
👍

It appears he has concerns about the members of the Church who want to hold on to old traditions. I think their conservative beliefs may not agree with his idea of an open, understanding Church.
“Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top. Or, they are set aside to rest, when retirement age arrives.”
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What exactly does this statement mean? I am not good at understanding this pope but my guess is he is saying he will apply pressure if needed, or if they are older clergy members he will wait for them to retire.
 
Here is how I see it, correct me if I’m wrong.

All Catholics should be “ultra conservatives” when it comes to doctrine, dogma, traditional Church teachings, etc. etc.

The only way a Catholic could be I GUESS “liberal” is if he wants change in Church discipline. An example would be the fast time before recieving communion. Even then caution should be taken. You can also be conservative with dicipline as well.

I dont like using the terms liberal and conservative when it comes to Catholics because Catholics are already conservative when compared to society atleast at this current time in history.

Style is another matter. Some people have different styles of preaching and teaching which is good. But All preaching has to be clear. All styles have to be in line with Church teaching.

maybe the the Pope means “ultra conservative” groups are groups that are split from the Church?

Or are these groups of devout Catholics that think the Pope hasnt spoke up enough about the most serious issues of our day?

Let’s watch the media have a field day with this quote to promote their own agenda.
 
Here’s the way I see it. All Catholics should strive to live like Christ and the Apostles did.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
Here is how I see it, correct me if I’m wrong.

All Catholics should be “ultra conservatives” when it comes to doctrine, dogma, traditional Church teachings, etc. etc.

The only way a Catholic could be I GUESS “liberal” is if he wants change in Church discipline. An example would be the fast time before recieving communion. Even then caution should be taken.

I dont like using the terms liberal and conservative when it comes to Catholics because Catholics are already conservative when compared to society atleast at this current time in history.

Style is another matter. Some people have different styles of preaching and teaching which is good. But All preaching has to be clear. All styles have to be in line with Church teaching.

maybe the the Pope means “ultra conservative” groups are groups that are split from the Church?

Or are these groups of devout Catholics that think the Pope hasnt spoke up enough about the most serious issues of our day?

Let’s watch the media have a field day with this quote to promote their own agenda.
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As I noted above, the Holy Father must be referring to current, active bishops who’s positions he deems too “conservative”. How else are we to understand the reference to waiting for their retirement?
 
Mark121359 said:
And yet, these comments appear to ***invite ***conflict! How does saying; whereas ultraconservatives in the Church “say no to everything.” not invite conflict? It would appear to broad-brush all those who hold to traditional conservative views. But then again…it could be just me.
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One reason to doubt that interpretation is because the pope himself holds to traditional conservative views.

He is not a liberal pope and he has condemned progressivism.

“[The] spirit of adolescent progressivism” says, “[We] cannot…remain stuck in our old traditions. … And this is what we call apostasy; the prophets called it adultery… Still today, the spirit of worldliness leads us to progressivism, to this uniformity of thought.” source

Pope Francis Is No Liberal: 24 Examples
historyandapologetics.com/2015/02/pope-francis-is-no-liberal-24-examples.html
 
No … I think the Pope is mainly concerned with Catholic priests and bishops who don’t practice and/or promote Divine Mercy.

I’m aware of many older Catholic laymen and priests who believe Divine Mercy is just a Polish devotion and wouldn’t even be on the calendar is Pope John Paul II was a Polish Pope.

Many of these people slam John Paul for adding the Luminous Mysteries to the Rosary.

Also, there were many Catholics who “prevented” Pope John Paul from directly consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

I honestly believe that the Pope is really refering his comments to people like this and also Catholics who learn towards Jansenism. While Jansenism peaked in the 17th century, I personally believe that there are still many in the Church who subscribe to this heresy, and the Holy Father obviously seems to have been a witness to this during this life.

I pray this is helpful.

God Bless and Happy Independence Day to everyone in the United States
 
twf said:
As I noted above, the Holy Father must be referring to current, active bishops who’s positions he deems too “conservative”. How else are we to understand the reference to waiting for their retirement?
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If that is true, It would be interesting to see what are their “positions” and who are the Bishops? Maybe they arw Bishops who side with SSPX?
 
twf said:
As I noted above, the Holy Father must be referring to current, active bishops who’s positions he deems too “conservative”. How else are we to understand the reference to waiting for their retirement?
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It is not very clear what his message is in this report. I think it leaves more questions than answers.

There are members of the Church who support these active bishops holding on to traditional beliefs, the ones he deems too conservative. Where will the members go when the bishops they have trusted all these years to guide them and their churches, have been replaced with bishops that support his plan for a more open, understanding Church? Also, what exactly is a more open, understanding Church?
 
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