Pope vows he won’t be slowed down by ‘ultra-conservatives’

[graciew]

I have just finished listening to Morales Sola.
The Pope is doing well,he is weighing what he used to and he is un good health.

He is a spiritual leader,probably the most important one in the world.
Sounds like people pull him down to their own arenas,especially polítical ones.

  If he meets this,if he greets that,if he looks serious with this one,if he smiles at that one....oh MG.... 

   And since there is a lot going on here,people are over sensitive...and talking and inventing non existing conflicts with such or such.,especially polítical figures.

As for me,I am.glad he is in good health and I love him much and admire his fortitude

All is well.Peace.
It was soothing to listen to Morales Sola who met him personally.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It’s not true. Pope Benedict was several years older than Francis is now when he retired. Pope Emeritus Benedict just turned 89 I believe? And he only retired 3 years ago. Our holy father is a young 79 or 80 last I checked.

The Pope Emeritus is indeed 89, as of April. Pope Francis is 79.

Pope Benedict was three days passed his 78th birthday when he was elected Bishop of Rome.

 

[KSU]

Well, I’m still trying to figure out who “traditional ultra-conservatives” are.

My guess is that this is a reference to the ministry approach, not to fundamental doctrine, which Pope Francis has actually defended in His own manner. I suppose.

Morales Sola played the Holy Father like a violin. Trusting soul that he is, Francis seldom corrects the loaded questions and faulty premises he gets from notoriety-seeking journalists. Rather, he gives answers based on what he presumes the questioners meant, often resulting in threads such as this with posters guessing at what was intended to be conveyed and media having a field day.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I suspect Papa Francis is referring to folks like this:

whatisupwiththesynod.com

akacatholic.com

novusordowatch.org

(warning, I am not responsible for any physical or mental injury incurred by clicking on those links. )

I couldn’t resist. I clicked.

I suppose labelling people ultra-conservative is OK as long as they don’t start to feel marginalized or excluded.

 

[graciew]

Morales Sola played the Holy Father like a violin. Trusting soul that he is, Francis seldom corrects the loaded questions and faulty premises he gets from notoriety-seeking journalists. Rather, he gives answers based on what he presumes the questioners meant, often resulting in threads such as this with posters guessing at what was intended to be conveyed and media having a field day.

Morales Sola is well known and he does not need notoriety really,Ksu.
This interview has to do with us down here and all what is going on. Even Morales Sola said expresedly that as the Pope answered there wasn t an issue with the President,then that was cleared and nothing else to say.
To be frank,Sometimes the ball has to be stopped. Morales Sola is respected and he probably asked what many wanted to know.
The questión about ultra conservative was a loose one in the context of the rest of the interview,which was basically of local and not global concern.
Just letting you know,Ksu. There is a lot going on down here ,there has been corruption to the core,almost obscene and we are quite strained.
Everything passes…patience…

 

[phil19034]

I can come up with a hypothetical example of what the Pope might be referring to. Imagine some priest from his native Argentina thinking, “The country is over 3/4 Catholic and our culture is in many respects imbued with Catholicism. What’s the point of change?”

Everyone in the Church needs to embrace the missionary impulse. And that always entails openness to change, ready to follow the Lord wherever he is leading. Rejecting any and all change (an ultra-conservative spiritual attitude, if you will) seems to me to be spiritually lazy.

It seems to me that Pope Francis usually speaks in terms of spirituality, which is going to be focused on practical action. Contrast this with Pope Benedict who was a dogmatic theologian.

This is a very good hypothesis … There are many Catholics in historically Catholic nations like South America and Southern Europe that see Catholicism as a cultural thing and refuse to change for today’s needs (I.e. The New Evangelization and the message of Divine Mercy)

A good example of refusing to change is that some nations have very few (if any) permanent deacons.

Also, the Pope changed the rules for priests to become Monsignors. This upset many who have a clerical view, seeing the “promotion” to Monsignor as a “promotion.” My own pastor (a Monsignor himself) understood why the Pope did this (he said many young priests would focus too much on getting a doctorate and doing things just to receive the title of Monsignor because it helped their chances of becoming a bishop instead of focusing on being a good priest). But my pastor also felt that it’s important to have some kind of reconginition program for good work for priests.

I would also imagine that most of the “ultra conservatives” are the heads of Curia departments who, like all bureaucracies, are reluctant to procedural/organizational change.

Irregardless, I highly doubt that His Holiness is really referring to what Americans would consider “ultra conservatives.”

 

[TMC]

I don’t think the Pope’s comments are all that mysterious. He says he is dealing with these certain type of officials in the Church by reassigning them or allowing them to retire. One need only look at those that he has retired or reassigned to inconsequential posts to understand his comments. There have been some high profile examples of that, much discussed on this forum. On the converse, one need only look at the type of bishop and Cardinal that he has promoted and kept close to himself. I won’t name names out of respect for individual Church officials, but I think it rather obvious.

 

[powerofk]

This is a very good hypothesis … There are many Catholics in historically Catholic nations like South America and Southern Europe that see Catholicism as a cultural thing and refuse to change for today’s needs (I.e. The New Evangelization and the message of Divine Mercy)

A good example of refusing to change is that some nations have very few (if any) permanent deacons.

Also, the Pope changed the rules for priests to become Monsignors. This upset many who have a clerical view, seeing the “promotion” to Monsignor as a “promotion.” My own pastor (a Monsignor himself) understood why the Pope did this (he said many young priests would focus too much on getting a doctorate and doing things just to receive the title of Monsignor because it helped their chances of becoming a bishop instead of focusing on being a good priest). But my pastor also felt that it’s important to have some kind of reconginition program for good work for priests.

I would also imagine that most of the “ultra conservatives” are the heads of Curia departments who, like all bureaucracies, are reluctant to procedural/organizational change.

Irregardless, I highly doubt that His Holiness is really referring to what Americans would consider “ultra conservatives.”

I have an idea based on other things Pope Francis has said in the past. Remember, as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Bergolio spent a lot of time with the poor and ostracized. One of the things he mentioned was unwed mothers coming to him wanting their babies baptized because their local pastors refused to baptize the babies because they were born out of wedlock. Francis’s answer? Don’t refuse them! It’s not the fault of the babies and at least their mothers didn’t compound the issue by having an abortion! But a lot of priests would simply look on and see the fact that the mothers weren’t married and withhold the sacraments.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I just don’t understand these statements. Actually I understand them fine, it’s the spin others put on the pope’s statements I don’t understand.

These comments by the pope sadden me. I fear the church is moving away from unity. We have every Catholic voice in the world either telling is there is no liberal or conservative Catholic there is only Catholic. Or we have people saying the pope meant this or that.

The we have the words of the pope himself. Talking about ideologies in the church he does not agree with or speaking on topics such as the use of birth control, to homosexuality, to adulterous relationships. L

If the pope had said this on the liberal side, there would be utter shock.

What happened to smiling and just commenting that the Catholic Church is Catholic, not politically run.

Perhaps though it is. It just makes me sad.

 

[graciew]

I just don’t understand these statements. Actually I understand them fine, it’s the spin others put on the pope’s statements I don’t understand.

These comments by the pope sadden me. I fear the church is moving away from unity. We have every Catholic voice in the world either telling is there is no liberal or conservative Catholic there is only Catholic. Or we have people saying the pope meant this or that.

The we have the words of the pope himself. Talking about ideologies in the church he does not agree with or speaking on topics such as the use of birth control, to homosexuality, to adulterous relationships. L

If the pope had said this on the liberal side, there would be utter shock.

What happened to smiling and just commenting that the Catholic Church is Catholic, not politically run.

Perhaps though it is. It just makes me sad.

That he doesn t use it,does not mean that he didn t grasp what Morales said.
This isn t the first time the phrase appeared in the news.

 

[KSU]

Morales Sola is well known and he does not need notoriety really,Ksu.
This interview has to do with us down here and all what is going on. Even Morales Sola said expresedly that as the Pope answered there wasn t an issue with the President,then that was cleared and nothing else to say.
To be frank,Sometimes the ball has to be stopped. Morales Sola is respected and he probably asked what many wanted to know.
The questión about ultra conservative was a loose one in the context of the rest of the interview,which was basically of local and not global concern.
Just letting you know,Ksu. There is a lot going on down here ,there has been corruption to the core,almost obscene and we are quite strained.
Everything passes…patience…

I agree with the crux (pun intended) of your post,i.e., that the interview basically concerned Morales Sola’s attempt to elicit the Pope’s reaction to political corruption in your country. Nevertheless, all journalists, especially those of Joaquin Morales Sola’s stature, want notoriety. That’s also why the unfortunate Crux OP article and thus this thread exist.

Second, neither Morales Sola nor the Holy Father intended to limit the interview to local political concern, which is the reason for the OP article and my post.

You say, “Everything passes…patience.” Thank you for the encouragement. Unfortunately, however, patience with dangerous confusion exacerbated by the media is one factor why everything does not pass. Don’t feel lonely about corruption in your country. In my country, corruption often is accompanied by the media, resulting in ever increasing loss of religious liberty, among other liberties.

 

[graciew]

I agree with the crux (pun intended) of your post,i.e., that the interview basically concerned Morales Sola’s attempt to elicit the Pope’s reaction to political corruption in your country. Nevertheless, all journalists, especially those of Joaquin Morales Sola’s stature, want notoriety. That’s also why the unfortunate Crux OP article and thus this thread exist.

Second, neither Morales Sola nor the Holy Father intended to limit the interview to local political concern, which is the reason for the OP article and my post.

You say, “Everything passes…patience.” Thank you for the encouragement. Unfortunately, however, patience with dangerous confusion exacerbated by the media is one factor why everything does not pass. Don’t feel lonely about corruption in your country. In my country, corruption often is accompanied by the media, resulting in ever increasing loss of religious liberty, among other liberties.

Thank you for a shoulder…corruption gets to hurt badly. And I appreciate your understanding.

 

[bveritas]

An “Ultra Conservative” is someone who fails to share his exoneration of Catholics whom he assumes can not be faulted for anything. Someone should ask him whom doe he think would be more likely to beat up his wife for refusing to get an abortion, the man in his second, third, or forth marriage or shack-up, or a man who submitted to the grace of sacramental marriage and is loyal to his first wife.

 

[bveritas]

An “Ultra Conservative” is someone who fails to share his exoneration of Catholics whom he assumes can not be faulted for anything. Someone should ask him whom doe he think would be more likely to beat up his wife for refusing to get an abortion, the man in his second, third, or forth marriage or shack-up, or a man who submitted to the grace of sacramental marriage and is loyal to his first wife.

 

[dmar198]

An “Ultra Conservative” is someone who fails to share his exoneration of Catholics whom he assumes can not be faulted for anything. Someone should ask him whom doe he think would be more likely to beat up his wife for refusing to get an abortion, the man in his second, third, or forth marriage or shack-up, or a man who submitted to the grace of sacramental marriage and is loyal to his first wife.

Can you give an example of someone the pope assumes cannot be faulted for anything? He has spoken out clearly against communion for the divorced and remarried, except under the conditions specified by Pope St. John Paul 2 (e.g. living as brother and sister, not causing scandal).

“About the problem of Communion to those persons in a second union, that the divorced might participate in Communion, there is no problem. When they are in a second union, they can’t. I believe that it is necessary to keep this within the entirety of pastoral care of marriage.” source

“The exclusion of divorced people who contract a second marriage from communion is not a [punishment]. It is important to remember this.” source

“People who are divorced can receive communion, people who are remarried can’t.” source

 

[pnewton]

What is an “ultra conservative”?

I note the article does not allow cutting and pasting. I would advise to just look at the first paragraph and the way the quotes are presented in snippets, then disregard the whole article as an unreliable piece. Journalism does not quote in three word phrases strung by the editors comments. Also, there is no reference whereby the assemble attempt at quoting may be tested for accuracy. The lay Catholic media can be as erroneous as the secular media when it comes to reliability.

I think this article is in real need of ignoring. One article I found says it was not even the Pope that used the term “ultra conservative” but rather the interviewer. Furthermore, the interview included political discussions about the leader of Argentina that might have lead to a gossip chain of misleading articles. Here is another article with a different spin.

thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?ID=176887In light of the lack of source information, this story should not be given too much emotional investment.

 

[zz912]

Considering the comment about retirement, I wonder which bishops & cardinals the Pope has in mind.

 

[zz912]

I suppose labelling people ultra-conservative is OK as long as they don’t start to feel marginalized or excluded.

From what I’ve read, they already do consider themselves marginalized, ostrasized and excluded. Who will champion them?

 

[Peebo]

gilliam;140184**39:

Here’s the way I see it. All Catholics should strive to live like Christ and the Apostles did.

100% correct…and Jesus certainly wasn’t ultra conservative…or even liberal for that matter

 

[graciew]

I note the article does not allow cutting and pasting. I would advise to just look at the first paragraph and the way the quotes are presented in snippets, then disregard the whole article as an unreliable piece. Journalism does not quote in three word phrases strung by the editors comments. Also, there is no reference whereby the assemble attempt at quoting may be tested for accuracy. The lay Catholic media can be as erroneous as the secular media when it comes to reliability.

I think this article is in real need of ignoring. One article I found says it was not even the Pope that used the term “ultra conservative” but rather the interviewer. Furthermore, the interview included political discussions about the leader of Argentina that might have lead to a gossip chain of misleading articles. Here is another article with a different spin.

thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?ID=176887In light of the lack of source information, this story should not be given too much emotional investment.

I agree with you,PNewton. It had to do with a chain of events down here . If I were you,I would turn the page.
(Hope you enjoyed your vacations btw!!)