Pope vows to study US criticism of his anti-capitalist rhetoric

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sugarcat said:
Nice scathing condemnation, eh? You missed the “working 2 or 3 part-time jobs” part - if you have the time, yes, real food is cheaper IF you also shop only the really good sales. Note unless living in a big city with great public transit, a car is required to get to those jobs - Why part time? The USA “Obamacare” and onerous business regs have resulted in the new “part-time work force” And there is gas, insurance, licensing, wheel tax, etc. I note the price of electricity, gas, food, etc. is the same to rich and poor. I don’t think the author of this post has spent any time living at or near the poverty line in the USA. Cash, and time - poor, and often sleep and physically tired -with the same responsibilities as everyone. Try walking a mile in their shoes first before you condemn!
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I have. I’ve been so poor all I could afford was grilled cheese sandwiches for lunch and Ramen noodle for dinner, and tap water to drink. That lasted for quite a while. And regular, healthy food you cook yourself is cheaper than fast food, period.
 
estesbob said:
I wish that were true. in the last decade or so the college grads I have interviewed were very socially conscious but very low on skills that would actually help them in the workplace.
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No kidding. Universities now have remedial courses for a large chunk of freshmen who don’t know basics. But they all have sky high self-esteem!
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Just out of curiousity, are you interviewing people from accounting programs? Because in my experience, those programs tend to deal with less of the social issues of the day. A graduate of a management program perhaps, but in my experience accounting, economics and finance deal very little with the socially conscious stuff.
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Yes. And even for them, there are glaring holes and weaknesses that weren’t there a decade ago.
 
Peccavi said:
Sure I can, but I thought you might like to try to tease out what Jesus is telling us. Try working out the economics of the Loaves and fishes. Its really quite easy.
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  1. Become God
  2. create fishes and loaves out of nothing.
I don’t see this economic system succeeding until the Second Coming.
 
zz912 said:
  1. Become God
  2. create fishes and loaves out of nothing.
I don’t see this economic system succeeding until the Second Coming.
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That’s your interpretation of the parable now think again how else might it be understood ?
Remember Jesus was incredibly bright.
 
Peccavi said:
That’s your interpretation of the parable now think again how else might it be understood ?
Remember Jesus was incredibly bright.
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The account of the Loaves and fishes was not a parable. . My interpretation of Jesus’s gospel message on economics is it is a ringing endorsement of capitalism as it is practiced in the United States today. More evidence that he was very very bright
 
I’ve given my interpretation per Pecavii’s request . Now we are waiting his.
 
no my tongue is firmly in my mouth and my feet firmly on the ground. The miracle of the loaves and fishes was Jesus getting the multitude to SHARE. Its the Gnostic and Manichaeism heresy that separates body from soul, that separates the physical action from the spiritual, that sees the flesh as secondary to the spirit. That is a Greek philosophy not a Jesus one. Catholics believe, as they demonstrate in the Eucharist, in the union of flesh with soul; Transubstantiation. Here there is no separation of the flesh from the spirit. So Catholics should seek to save the body as well as the soul in communion with humanity. As Jesus said " He has sent me to proclaim the release of captives, and the recovery of site to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the Acceptable Year of the Lord " JESUS (Luke 4:18-19)
Sharing, loving, forgiving, liberation and freedom are at the heart of the Gospels and we do well to remember what Jesus condemned was mostly exploitation and greed.
 
zz912 said:
Yes. And even for them, there are glaring holes and weaknesses that weren’t there a decade ago.
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That wouldn’t surprise me too much, given that demographics have changed in that age group. A decade ago universities could be more selective because there were more applicants to choose from, today there are fewer applicants so universities can be less selective.

The issue however was social conscious issues, i.e. all the isms. My hypothesis is that accounting students are less taken up with those issues than the softer social sciences and the humanities.
 
So, Jesus, using other people’s loaves and fishes, fed everyone without asking them to pay, and ended up with more than He started with. It doesn’t say what he did with the new found wealth, so we don’t know if He kept it for Himself and the Apostles, retured it to the original ‘investors’, or distributed it to others on His way back to town.

First part sounds like modern day capitalism (OPM), second part not so much. can’t say about the ending, not enough info.
 
sallybutler said:
So, Jesus, using other people’s loaves and fishes, fed everyone without asking them to pay, and ended up with more than He started with. It doesn’t say what he did with the new found wealth, so we don’t know if He kept it for Himself and the Apostles, retured it to the original ‘investors’, or distributed it to others on His way back to town.

First part sounds like modern day capitalism (OPM), second part not so much. can’t say about the ending, not enough info.
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The story makes more sense when you view it as an isolated incident, an example of how to work together and share what you have in a crisis.
 
Theo520 said:
The story makes more sense when you view it as an isolated incident, an example of how to work together and share what you have in a crisis.
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Then it supports the welfare state, using OPM to help those who are hungry and don’t have enough money to eat dinner. Jesus didn’t say, since you didn’t plan ahead and bring your own food, too bad. He fed them where they were, not where they should have been with proper planning and work.
 
Peccavi said:
no my tongue is firmly in my mouth and my feet firmly on the ground. The miracle of the loaves and fishes was Jesus getting the multitude to SHARE. .
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On the other hand, He might have actually performed a miracle in physically multiplying the loaves and fishes. Imagine such a thing! :eek::eek:

I recall Him saying God could raise “sons of Abraham” from the very stones. Now, let’s see, how could that get done without it being a miracle. Hmmmmmm. Maybe they were great big rocks that people were hiding under, being antisocial and all, and if asked to “join the community” they would get out from under the rocks. Something like that? :rolleyes:

And maybe He found a cure for catatonia and Lazarus wasn’t really dead after all, just catatonic after being exposed to so much societal self-seeking, and, and, and.

I realize modern exegetes like to discount the possibility of miracles, but there’s really not much in the Bible to support the non-miracle origin of miracles.
 
I accept it was a miracle but not a magic trick. Jesus did not use magic tricks. As for Jesus teachings
“In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.” - John 2:14-15. This story which shows Jesus’ rage against what is essentially corporate Greed, merging money with state & theological power, is also repeated in Matthew 21:12 (summed here essentially): Jesus walks into the temple courtyard and sees how merchants there change money, they have built their business up around what is supposed to be God’s temple. Jesus is horrified by the idea that God’s home could be profaned with money and the desire to be wealthy, he loses it, making a whip and begins turning over the tables the merchants are trading upon, he drives out the cattle being sold and screams a ton of insults at the people in the courtyard. Jesus was filled with righteous indignation at the idea of Church being involved with business, he was horrified that it could be used as a network for making money. Now what does that sound like ? A Capitalist ?
 
Peccavi said:
I accept it was a miracle but not a magic trick. Jesus did not use magic tricks. As for Jesus teachings
“In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.” - John 2:14-15. This story which shows Jesus’ rage against what is essentially corporate Greed, merging money with state & theological power, is also repeated in Matthew 21:12 (summed here essentially): Jesus walks into the temple courtyard and sees how merchants there change money, they have built their business up around what is supposed to be God’s temple. Jesus is horrified by the idea that God’s home could be profaned with money and the desire to be wealthy, he loses it, making a whip and begins turning over the tables the merchants are trading upon, he drives out the cattle being sold and screams a ton of insults at the people in the courtyard. Jesus was filled with righteous indignation at the idea of Church being involved with business, he was horrified that it could be used as a network for making money. Now what does that sound like ? A Capitalist ?
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Obviously Jesus is making a point that high taxes and overregulation are not good for the people . A very capitalistic idea but then we have already agreed that Jesus was very bright
 
sallybutler said:
Then it supports the welfare state, using OPM to help those who are hungry and don’t have enough money to eat dinner. Jesus didn’t say, since you didn’t plan ahead and bring your own food, too bad. He fed them where they were, not where they should have been with proper planning and work.
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ROFL, if it was pushing the welfare state, then the Pharisees or Romans would have delivered the food.
 
Theo520 said:
ROFL, if it was pushing the welfare state, then the Pharisees or Romans would have delivered the food.
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On the other hand, if he were pushing capitalism he would have told the crowd that the McDonalds in the village was offering fillet of fish for 2 for $3.
 
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