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sallybutler
Guest
Are we ALL overreaching. I think Jesus was telling all of us to put God first. First commandment, Love God. Second commandment, Love others as God loves you. Simple words, hard to do.
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Peccavi
Guest
Jesus came out of Galilee a trouble spot full of rebels, revolts and guerrilla warfare. Both the Romans and the Jewish Establishment despised and feared Galileans. 90% of Galileans were peasants working the land crippled by taxes,debt and high unemployment. In this climate of colonial rule,accumulated debt and bankruptcy, forced migration and revolutionary uprisings, Jesus came speaking of the Kingdom of God. His followers were a mix of fishermen and farmers, doctors, hated tax collectors, Zealot activists and women - Jesus ate with sinners, broke bread on the Sabbath, forgave sins, healed the sick, verbally attacked the rich and the pious, explaining God was the Father of all and we should seek to bring about God’s Kingdom and the Year of Jubilee. The Religious authorities of the day saw him as a dangerous threat to Orthodoxy, in fact as a heretic. The Roman’s saw him as a threat to good order. Both conspired against him.
Now what kind of message was Jesus proclaiming that made him so much a threat ? What kind of Kingdom did he ask us to seek not in a next World but her on the World God so loved ?
Now what kind of message was Jesus proclaiming that made him so much a threat ? What kind of Kingdom did he ask us to seek not in a next World but her on the World God so loved ?
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Theo520
Guest
Capitalism has no conflict with donating your resources to help those in need.On the other hand, if he were pushing capitalism he would have told the crowd that the McDonalds in the village was offering fillet of fish for 2 for $3.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
I never said any different.Capitalism has no conflict with donating your resources to help those in need.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Capitalism is nothing but what people would do, economically, if free to do it. Understanding that sometimes “what people would do” can be harmful, laws are instituted to regulate that behavior in ways thought to be beneficial and preventive of harm. Laws, or men having great authority, can sometimes be harmful too. The beneficial effects of freedom are always at war with the downsides of human nature, and we try to make as good a balance, from time to time, as we can.
And the liklihood of all men agreeing on how to best resolve that conflict is virtually nil. That’s because some perceive human nature differently from the way others perceive it. Some think all men are naturally predatory beasts who will devour their neighbors if given the chance. Those who believe that tend to think nothing but a straitjacket will do for humans. Some thing better of human nature than that and believe people are really trying to do the right things. Such people tend to oppose restrictive laws and regulations.
And sometimes the perceptions have a way of fulfilling themselves. The Soviet system was a straitjacket, but it brought out the absolute worst in men. It fulfilled its own expectations. What about the mixed U.S. system, then? Does the relative economic decision-making power cause or encourage people to be generous? I don’t know. But if one looks at the donations Americans make relative to those of other peoples, one might reasonably think so.
And the liklihood of all men agreeing on how to best resolve that conflict is virtually nil. That’s because some perceive human nature differently from the way others perceive it. Some think all men are naturally predatory beasts who will devour their neighbors if given the chance. Those who believe that tend to think nothing but a straitjacket will do for humans. Some thing better of human nature than that and believe people are really trying to do the right things. Such people tend to oppose restrictive laws and regulations.
And sometimes the perceptions have a way of fulfilling themselves. The Soviet system was a straitjacket, but it brought out the absolute worst in men. It fulfilled its own expectations. What about the mixed U.S. system, then? Does the relative economic decision-making power cause or encourage people to be generous? I don’t know. But if one looks at the donations Americans make relative to those of other peoples, one might reasonably think so.
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Theo520
Guest
So capitalism doesn’t mean sending a starving mass without any money, to go sit outside McDonalds and drool on the windows. You were just deflecting.I never said any different.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
Nobody said the multitude were too poor to buy their own sandwich. Capitalism doesn’t give anything for free. The is no free lunch.So capitalism doesn’t mean sending a starving mass without any money, to go sit outside McDonalds and drool on the windows. You were just deflecting.
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Theo520
Guest
Stop flip flopping, you effectively agreed with the below. You can donate a ‘free lunch’ at your discression.Nobody said the multitude were too poor to buy their own sandwich. Capitalism doesn’t give anything for free. The is no free lunch.
Capitalism has no conflict with donating your resources to help those in need.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
American exceptionalism is not related to scripture
Politics can promote or denigrate Christian blues, however. There is no question that Vhristian ideals are under attack in America. Defending these ideals will involve political participation,
Politics can promote or denigrate Christian blues, however. There is no question that Vhristian ideals are under attack in America. Defending these ideals will involve political participation,
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estesbob
Guest
He was sending the message that free markets were crucial to creating jobs and helping the poor You need to learn to tease out what Jesus is saying and keep in mind he is very brightJesus came out of Galilee a trouble spot full of rebels, revolts and guerrilla warfare. Both the Romans and the Jewish Establishment despised and feared Galileans. 90% of Galileans were peasants working the land crippled by taxes,debt and high unemployment. In this climate of colonial rule,accumulated debt and bankruptcy, forced migration and revolutionary uprisings, Jesus came speaking of the Kingdom of God. His followers were a mix of fishermen and farmers, doctors, hated tax collectors, Zealot activists and women - Jesus ate with sinners, broke bread on the Sabbath, forgave sins, healed the sick, verbally attacked the rich and the pious, explaining God was the Father of all and we should seek to bring about God’s Kingdom and the Year of Jubilee. The Religious authorities of the day saw him as a dangerous threat to Orthodoxy, in fact as a heretic. The Roman’s saw him as a threat to good order. Both conspired against him.
Now what kind of message was Jesus proclaiming that made him so much a threat ? What kind of Kingdom did he ask us to seek not in a next World but her on the World God so loved ?
S
stinkcat_14
Guest
I agree with you that Jesus was not promoting capitalism when he multiplied the fishes and the loaves. Capitalism does not conflict with charity in the sense that fish don’t conflict with cars, they are two different things and in two different realms. But the point is, the market could have fed the crowd, but Jesus chose not to use the market.Stop flip flopping, you effectively agreed with the below. You can donate a ‘free lunch’ at your discression.
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Peccavi
Guest
Jesus promoting the Market ? How come then he attacked the Market in the Temple with a whip - traders, bankers et al. he turned them out. He said plainly " You cannot serve God and Mammon ( meaning money) - and he clearly described the rich as required to quote “take all (they) have and give it to the poor”. The whole thrust of Jesus teaching is in favour of communal sharing which is described in Acts as being carried out by the early church.
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estesbob
Guest
We have conflicting interpretations of what the Scripture passages mean. How do we resolve that?Jesus promoting the Market ? How come then he attacked the Market in the Temple with a whip - traders, bankers et al. he turned them out. He said plainly " You cannot serve God and Mammon ( meaning money) - and he clearly described the rich as required to quote “take all (they) have and give it to the poor”. The whole thrust of Jesus teaching is in favour of communal sharing which is described in Acts as being carried out by the early church.
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EIF5A
Guest
Do you have a source for this from a theologian or church father?He was sending the message that free markets were crucial to creating jobs and helping the poor You need to learn to tease out what Jesus is saying and keep in mind he is very bright
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EIF5A
Guest
The vast majority might not be predatory, but it only takes a few greedy apples to ruin the entire basket. When they accumulate power and wealth, then what?Capitalism is nothing but what people would do, economically, if free to do it. Understanding that sometimes “what people would do” can be harmful, laws are instituted to regulate that behavior in ways thought to be beneficial and preventive of harm. Laws, or men having great authority, can sometimes be harmful too. The beneficial effects of freedom are always at war with the downsides of human nature, and we try to make as good a balance, from time to time, as we can.
And the liklihood of all men agreeing on how to best resolve that conflict is virtually nil. That’s because some perceive human nature differently from the way others perceive it. Some think all men are naturally predatory beasts who will devour their neighbors if given the chance. Those who believe that tend to think nothing but a straitjacket will do for humans. Some thing better of human nature than that and believe people are really trying to do the right things. Such people tend to oppose restrictive laws and regulations.
And sometimes the perceptions have a way of fulfilling themselves. The Soviet system was a straitjacket, but it brought out the absolute worst in men. It fulfilled its own expectations. What about the mixed U.S. system, then? Does the relative economic decision-making power cause or encourage people to be generous? I don’t know. But if one looks at the donations Americans make relative to those of other peoples, one might reasonably think so.
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Peccavi
Guest
By reading again the Gospels and Acts ( forget Paul Jesus made Peter his rock on which the Church is built)We have conflicting interpretations of what the Scripture passages mean. How do we resolve that?
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estesbob
Guest
Why should we accept your personal interpretation of the scripture verses?By reading again the Gospels and Acts ( forget Paul Jesus made Peter his rock on which the Church is built)
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estesbob
Guest
I was responding to a poster who says we don’t have to go to theologian or church father that all we have to do is read scripture and tease out what Jesus is saying and the truth will be made known to us. Of course after two days of asking he has not told us one word about what his opinion on what the best economic system is instead instructing us to read scripture and figure it out for ourselves. Of course as with all discussions with those who adhere to Sola Scripture been they recognize no central authority my interpretation the Jesus of promoting capitalism is just as valid as his interpretation that he was promoting socialismDo you have a source for this from a theologian or church father?
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Peccavi
Guest
Not my personal interpretation sorry, but Fr. Gutiérrez a Dominican priest and Dorothy Day, US Cathloic Worker Movement. There are more of us Leftie Catholics than you imagine.
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estesbob
Guest
Neither of whom speak for the ChurchNot my personal interpretation sorry, but Fr. Gutiérrez a Dominican priest and Dorothy Day, US Cathloic Worker Movement. There are more of us Leftie Catholics than you imagine.
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