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dailey
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news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-dolan-gay-marriage-150312090.html
Just saw this right now on Yahoo news. Not sure what to make of it…
Just saw this right now on Yahoo news. Not sure what to make of it…
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bben15
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It is easier to convert someone if we know the reason why they chose to sin in the first place.
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AlTheCollegeGal
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Well, firstly, this is through Cardinal Dolan, not straight from the pope’s mouth. Secondly, he is essentially giving his opinion of a recent interview Pope Francis gave in which the pope reaffirmed that “marriage is between a man and a woman.” Lastly, this part of the article I think is the most essential:
"The Pope did not choose to enter into debates about the delicate matter of gay civil unions," Rev. Thomas Rosica, a consultant to the Vatican press office, said in a statement. "We should not try to read more into the Pope’s words than what has been stated in very general terms."
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Coatimundi
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Yahoo has changed the headline to “Pope Francis wants church to study civil unions, Cardinal Dolan says”
According to the cardinal, Pope Francis wants to better understand why civil unions appeal to some people. It is not an unreasonable concern. How can you counter such attitudes unless you know what is so appealing about them.
According to the cardinal, Pope Francis wants to better understand why civil unions appeal to some people. It is not an unreasonable concern. How can you counter such attitudes unless you know what is so appealing about them.
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markomalley
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This is a lie wrapped around a deception sitting in a pile of falsehoods.
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dailey
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Good catch, I saw Yahoo changed the title.
I still don’t get why the church needs to “study” civil unions? We already know that the reason gays want to marry is to have equal right as heterosexuals. Either we agree or disagree with this opinion.
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SMGS127
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Uhh I’m somewhat concerned with Cardinal Dolan’s quote “Bravo” at Michael Sam coming out though. While I do not get annoyed at people coming out (and it in fact can be for a very good reason, such as Ellen Page’s coming out speech), I see it as something neutral. Saying “Bravo” makes it sound like something commendable, which in Page’s (and DeGeneres before her) case is probably true, but I’m not quite as sure with Sam.
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grasscutter
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I think that when he was saying “bravo”, it wasn’t a commendation or positive value judgement, but more in keeping with his personal style of communication. I watched the show and I heard it as “the Church does not accept homosexual activity and we are called to love each person”.
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shelby_sun
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Whatever your sexual preference or relationship to another person, if a person spends a great deal of time with another in friendship or partnership or whatever else over many years, they should be allowed to be with them when they die if that is what the dying person would want. That is why gay couples want to marry, to have those rights. That is what we need to understand, the depth of these relationships, the time they spent together, the support and love they give one another for years on end.
There are families that are against same sex marriages that would let a neighbor who barley knew their loved one be with them when they died but would not allow a long time caring partner. That is what needs to be considered. It all comes down to what the dying person would want rather what the families convictions are.
There are families that are against same sex marriages that would let a neighbor who barley knew their loved one be with them when they died but would not allow a long time caring partner. That is what needs to be considered. It all comes down to what the dying person would want rather what the families convictions are.
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Brigid34
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Civil unions can be between chaste roommates too. They often will want the legal advantages that civil unions provide.
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ProVobis
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If true, this would feel to me like the 60’s when the Church was “studying” ABC.
Some people are going to be awfully disappointed or frustrated or angry or all of the above.
Some people are going to be awfully disappointed or frustrated or angry or all of the above.
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Corki
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That’s theoretically possible but I am not sure that this form of civil union exists anywhere as of today. There have been some Catholic theologians who have posited, however, that civil unions* might *be tolerated by the Church if they were offered to all people (not just “couples”) including roommates, friends relatives or any two people that could gain a civil benefit.
Part of the problem is the word “union” which implies an emotional relationship rather than a more neutral word such a “contract”.
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McCall1981
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Fr. Rosica’s clarification of Pope Francis’ remarks said that in Italian the phrase “civil unions” refers to any union made by the state outside of a religious context, so it refers to heterosexual civil marriages, as well as other variations (like room mates, siblings, etc).
So Francis was not indicating anything specifically about same-sex civil unions.
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grasscutter
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I agree. On a legal basis that would allow just about any situation to receive a civil benefit. So, it would be a dangerous precedent. (To take it to a ridiculous level - someone claiming their cat as a dependent)
And I do empathize with the fact of a “chaste opposite sex living situation”. Chaste being that they love each other but are unable to marry and find companionship and shared expenses without sexual intercourse to be preferable to violating canon law. If there wasn’t a slippery slope, I would find myself hard pressed to deny such a couple civil benefits.
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Corki
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Does Italy, or any other country, have now a civil construct of “civil unions” that includes siblings, roommates or other partnerships? In the US, the states that passed civil union laws all had wording making it a domestic arrangement parallel to marriage. So, it wouldn’t apply (in existing US civil union laws) to roommates, siblings, etc.
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markomalley
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1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery” The Church maintains that a **new union **cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.
In interpreting the Holy Father’s words, you might want to consider the Catechism.
In interpreting the Holy Father’s words, you might want to consider the Catechism.
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powerofk
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Right. In Church law (and in Italy), a so-called civil union means that the couple was “married” outside of the Church. Unfortunately, in the US, a civil union meant the granting of some marital “rights” to homosexual couples before same-sex “marriages” were allowed by law.
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Seamus_L
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In the 17 years since I’ve returned to Catholicism, I’ve never known a time in which there has been so much confusion regarding statements coming from the Church. I envy the clarity of the Orthodox.
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RPRPsych
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Aww, come on, it’s not that bad. :hug1: (Though I do admire the Orthodox, but mainly for their icons.
)Excessive clarity can sometimes be dangerous. Look at Calvinism, for example. It’s a magnificent set of logical propositions, defended by its adherents with a fearsome consistency - and it also happens to be wrong.
The Church has always had weeds growing along with the wheat. Let’s not allow the media to cause us to stumble.
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Cirdan_XII
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Exactly, if the Pope decides there’s something we need to know or something he needs to clarify, he will instruct the bishops who will write to the priests who will explain it to us.Aww, come on, it’s not that bad. :hug1: (Though I do admire the Orthodox, but mainly for their icons.
Excessive clarity can sometimes be dangerous. Look at Calvinism, for example. It’s a magnificent set of logical propositions, defended by its adherents with a fearsome consistency - and it also happens to be wrong.
The Church has always had weeds growing along with the wheat. Let’s not allow the media to cause us to stumble.
The media has an anti-Catholic bias and is thus not the best place to learn about Church matters.
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