"Pope Wants Church To Study Gay Marriage"

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Using the same logic should people also come out if they are attracted to animals or children.

The truth is the aforementioned are disordered every much bit as homosexual desires and as such shouldn’t be embraced but rejected. After all, every thought and desire we have should not be accepted just because we have them.
Sexual interest in animals is pretty much always hedonism; I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone actually falling in love with an animal. I have also never heard of someone falling in love with a prepubescent child. In contrast homosexuality is as much if not more so about love than sex per se.
 
I agree. On a legal basis that would allow just about any situation to receive a civil benefit. So, it would be a dangerous precedent. (To take it to a ridiculous level - someone claiming their cat as a dependent)

And I do empathize with the fact of a “chaste opposite sex living situation”. Chaste being that they love each other but are unable to marry and find companionship and shared expenses without sexual intercourse to be preferable to violating canon law. If there wasn’t a slippery slope, I would find myself hard pressed to deny such a couple civil benefits.
This is where the slippery slope argument makes no sense to me. You say “X is right” but also “X leads to Y, and Y is wrong.” But why is this reason to actively oppose X? Why not instead work to change the culture in which “X leads to Y”?

The same thing happens with the idea of married priests. There have often been married priests in the history of the Church, and reintroducing that policy now might be prudent. But, people say, that would lead to allowing women priests. Well, then, change the association. Teach, in a culturally accessible way, why married priests and women priests are completely different questions.

We need Catholic MEDIA. Badly. We can’t count on the news media to teach for us anymore – as if that was ever working in the first place!
 
This is where the slippery slope argument makes no sense to me. You say “X is right” but also “X leads to Y, and Y is wrong.” But why is this reason to actively oppose X? Why not instead work to change the culture in which “X leads to Y”?

The same thing happens with the idea of married priests. There have often been married priests in the history of the Church, and reintroducing that policy now might be prudent. But, people say, that would lead to allowing women priests. Well, then, change the association. Teach, in a culturally accessible way, why married priests and women priests are completely different questions.

We need Catholic MEDIA. Badly. We can’t count on the news media to teach for us anymore – as if that was ever working in the first place!
Can’t say I have ever heard that argument. I have heard the argument of allowing gay “marriage” would lead to other atrocities against the sacrament of matrimony and the case where the woman married her dog in Europe illustrates that quite well.
 
You can disagree with a person’s behavior…you can even dislike them…but that doesn’t mean you should “judge” them.
Judging…it’s as if one is deciding if a person is good or bad…or innocent or guilty…this is what the pope and Dolan are saying it’s not their place to do…and it’s not your place to do, either. In the paradigm of Christianity, from what I understand, it is “God” who does this “judging”, not you.
And this is what they mean when they say they, and others, shouldn’t “judge” another person.
Yes you can disagree with behaviors of people, in fact the Scriptures tell us we must. But no, we cannot dislike them; we are called to love all, including our enemies and pray for those who persecute us.

But you and many misunderstand the difference between calling someone or something out as sin and judgment. Homosexual relations and unions/“marriage” is in fact sinful. Same sex attraction is not. I will always condemn actions, including my own, when they are sinful; this we are charged with doing. And I will also love the one in which I condemn the actions of, including myself.

It is the Holy Father’s and Cardinal Dolan’s duty to call sin sin; as it is my duty and yours. It is none of our duties to condemn them for their actions, this would be judging.
 
The media does not have an anti-Catholic bias.
They report what the pope says. If the pope speaks in general terms and he leaves his words to be interpreted, then of course the media will try to interpret them–this is the job of reporters, trying to make sense of what people say and trying to give it context.
Perhaps the pope is speaking non-specifically on purpose, for effect and to make people discuss a topic or get uncomfortable or explore a topic?
Could be.
Either way, it’s up to him to be more specific if he wants to be and for whatever reason he chooses not to…
when/if he does, the media will report his words then, too.
They may report what the Pope says, but they do not report on his statements in context. The context in which he speaks every time he opens his mouth is within the teachings of Mother Church. He has never said anything or done anything outside of orthodox teaching of the Church; but we sure have had many articles and talking heads tell how he has done otherwise.

Does the media have an anti-Catholic bias? I would agree with you in a way that on average they do not. However, with their completely secular and populists beliefs and motives their inherent biases place them at odds with the Church on most topics. With that said, they will take every little opportunity to see their ways of thinking come out of Pope Francis’ mouth, and all the bishops for that matter. It is their ignorance on parade that we see and hear; the disheartening part is when Catholics take hold of these views of the secular world and run with them trying to change truth.

If we all can get one thing straight it is this; the Pope’s words do not need to be “given context” nor do the words need “interpretation”. This is given to us in the teachings of Mother Church. To look elsewhere for context and interpretation will undoubtable leads us in the opposite direction of truth and away God.
 
Hmmm… Cardinal Dolan was excited and pleased with Michael SAMs ‘coming out’? The Cardinal says we shouldn’t “judge people” according to the bible…

Well if we can’t judge people, then who are we to have any sense of judgment on cheaters or prostitutes? If a celebrity cheats on his wife with a gay prostitute should we say bravo, good for him? :confused:
We **cannot **judge people. We can, and must, judge actions.

But Sam did not talk about his actions. He said he was gay. That is not an action, and it is not a sin. So, although I share SMGS127’s worries about the Cardinal’s statements, the Cardinal did not celebrate anyone’s sin.
 
saying ‘bravo’ to the guy is a judgment. a judgment that coming out gay is good.
The view that coming out as gay is good is not dogmatically rejected by the Church, though certain documents have discouraged the view. This question is subject to theological dispute, however, whereas the morality of homosexual acts is not subject to theological dispute.
 
The closet is not merely just not discussing your sex life or attractions, it is watching everything you say, manipulating the truth and often just plain lying to convince people you are heterosexual when you aren’t. Lying to everyone you know, even those you really care about takes a heavy toll on people and many turn to substance abuse to cope.
This is not true of everyone with SSA. I myself never had to lie or deceive to remain private about my attraction to men. Of course, I was helped by the fact that (in modern parlance) I am bisexual.
 
In the 17 years since I’ve returned to Catholicism, I’ve never known a time in which there has been so much confusion regarding statements coming from the Church. I envy the clarity of the Orthodox.
In all my years, I have never experienced it on this scale, either. Excluding the heterodox, these times are very alarming for sincere Catholics who know their faith and simply want to live it the best they can. Cling to sensus fidelium, stay close to our Mother, and pray for the Church is all I can say.
 
The media does not have an anti-Catholic bias.
:rotfl:

When it comes to abortion and so-called gay "marriage, they certainly do. And how about the child abuse scandal?

If only the media were as diligent about reporting such scandals in the public education system. :rolleyes:
They report what the pope says. If the pope speaks in general terms and he leaves his words to be interpreted, then of course the media will try to interpret them–this is the job of reporters, trying to make sense of what people say and trying to give it context.
Perhaps the pope is speaking non-specifically on purpose, for effect and to make people discuss a topic or get uncomfortable or explore a topic?
Could be.
Either way, it’s up to him to be more specific if he wants to be and for whatever reason he chooses not to…
when/if he does, the media will report his words then, too.
:ehh:
 
In contrast homosexuality is as much if not more so about love than sex per se.
Not true and typical to say the least.

According to statistics, homosexual men are much more promiscuous that heterosexual men, and this is why AIDS has spread so rapidly. In fact it is commonplace for homosexuals to discard the notion of physical fidelity. The fact is there is little love involved in homosexual sexual relationships but only a mutual decision by multiple adults to degrade their bodies and defile their minds.

Furthermore, if the fact that God abhors homosexual desires and sex so much proves there is no love in these relationships because God is the author of all love.
 
But Sam did not talk about his actions. He said he was gay. That is not an action, and it is not a sin.
It most certainly is an action and a sin. For example, I am a sinner like Sam but I don’t promote my sins like Sam and imply that what I am doing is ok. There is a big difference. Attitudes like this are one reason why we have so many confused children nowadays, may God forgive us for changing His Word.
 
We **cannot **judge people. We can, and must, judge actions.

But Sam did not talk about his actions. He said he was gay. That is not an action, and it is not a sin. So, although I share SMGS127’s worries about the Cardinal’s statements, the Cardinal did not celebrate anyone’s sin.
But Sam did talk about his actions. In his statements, he also revealed that he had been dating another male athlete at the university. That’s an action. Now, in fairness, I don’t think the journalist included that part of the statement in his set-up to the Cardinal and the Cardinal did not seem overly familiar with the case. Had the Cardinal been given more information, I don’t think his response would have been so exuberant.
 
We **cannot **judge people. We can, and must, judge actions.

But Sam did not talk about his actions. He said he was gay. That is not an action, and it is not a sin. So, although I share SMGS127’s worries about the Cardinal’s statements, the Cardinal did not celebrate anyone’s sin.
But Sam did talk about his actions. In his statements, he also revealed that he had been dating another male athlete at the university. That’s an action. Now, in fairness, I don’t think the journalist included that part of the statement in his set-up to the Cardinal and the Cardinal did not seem overly familiar with the case. Had the Cardinal been given more information, I don’t think his response would have been so exuberant.
Michael Sam is also personally selling his own “Stand with Sam” gay pride merchandise:

bleacherreport.com/articles/1986392-michael-sam-unveils-stand-with-sam-merchandise-for-sale-on-personal-website#articles/1986392-michael-sam-unveils-stand-with-sam-merchandise-for-sale-on-personal-website
 
It most certainly is an action and a sin. For example, I am a sinner like Sam but I don’t promote my sins like Sam and imply that what I am doing is ok.
Well, it seems to me there are three cases here:

(1) A person is ashamed of sin, and ashamed of temptation. This traps a person in sin, since temptation is not something to properly be ashamed of.
(2) A person is ashamed of sin, but not ashamed of temptation.
(3) A person is not ashamed of sin.

To me, admitting that one is “gay” puts one in category 2 or 3. I agree that 3 is a bad category (and I agree that, given other evidence, Michael Sam is in category 3). But I think that category 2 is much better than category 1.

You don’t have to call yourself “gay” to be in category 2. But calling oneself gay is NOT endorsing homosexual sexual activity. It’s just saying that you’re attracted to people of the same sex.
 
But Sam did talk about his actions. In his statements, he also revealed that he had been dating another male athlete at the university. That’s an action. Now, in fairness, I don’t think the journalist included that part of the statement in his set-up to the Cardinal and the Cardinal did not seem overly familiar with the case. Had the Cardinal been given more information, I don’t think his response would have been so exuberant.
Yes, this sounds right to me. Though I do think that we should not assume, simply because two gay men are dating, that they are sexually active.
 
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