"Pope Wants Church To Study Gay Marriage"

[RPRPsych]

Exactly, if the Pope decides there’s something we need to know or something he needs to clarify, he will instruct the bishops who will write to the priests who will explain it to us.

Absolutely.

The media has an anti-Catholic bias and is thus not the best place to learn about Church matters.

I forget who it was who said “Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice”, but that’s true. Sadly, sometimes even Catholic publications can carry slanted stories.

 

[TEPO]

"Dolan was also asked about Michael Sam, the Univ. of Missouri football player, likely an NFL draft pick, who recently came out as gay.

“Good for him,” Dolan said. “I would have no sense of judgment on him. God bless ya. I don’t think, look, the same bible that tells us that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, ‘Bravo.’”

Hmmm… Cardinal Dolan was excited and pleased with Michael SAMs ‘coming out’? The Cardinal says we shouldn’t “judge people” according to the bible…

Well if we can’t judge people, then who are we to have any sense of judgment on cheaters or prostitutes? If a celebrity cheats on his wife with a gay prostitute should we say bravo, good for him?

…IOW, Catholics today need two personalities. One is a set of morals for ourselves, the second is an evangelical front for others.

…that’s just how I’m reading this.

 

[markomalley]

Absolutely.

I forget who it was who said “Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice”, but that’s true. Sadly, sometimes even Catholic publications can carry slanted stories.

One thing helpful to consider is that CNS is an arm of the USCCB (therefore, just due to it being a conflict of interest, you can expect anything talking about the USCCB to be of the veracity of a press release from a corporation…probably factual in of itself, but definitely written in a light to support the sponsor’s overall objectives).

One other thing that is helpful to remember is that CNS is essentially a mainstream media wire feed (a “Catholic” version of the AP. a Catholic version of “Religion News Service”). The journalists who work for CNS are all mainstream, unionized journalists…just the same as the ones who work for the NY Times.

The reason why the second point is true is that they will generally have the same attitudes as any other journalist and will be looking through the same lenses. Again, not to say that what they post is inaccurate or untrue…but it is helpful to consider that the information is written from that point of view…and should be interpreted accordingly.

NOTE: I am NOT accusing CNS of being heterodox or schismatic (similar to statements I’ve made about National Catholic Reporter). I am simply saying that their stories are written in a certain manner than requires the orthodox, faithful reader to apply appropriate filtering.

 

[TEPO]

One thing helpful to consider is that CNS is an arm of the USCCB (therefore, just due to it being a conflict of interest, you can expect anything talking about the USCCB to be of the veracity of a press release from a corporation…probably factual in of itself, but definitely written in a light to support the sponsor’s overall objectives).

One other thing that is helpful to remember is that CNS is essentially a mainstream media wire feed (a “Catholic” version of the AP. a Catholic version of “Religion News Service”). The journalists who work for CNS are all mainstream, unionized journalists…just the same as the ones who work for the NY Times.

The reason why the second point is true is that they will generally have the same attitudes as any other journalist and will be looking through the same lenses. Again, not to say that what they post is inaccurate or untrue…but it is helpful to consider that the information is written from that point of view…and should be interpreted accordingly.

NOTE: I am NOT accusing CNS of being heterodox or schismatic (similar to statements I’ve made about National Catholic Reporter). I am simply saying that their stories are written in a certain manner than requires the orthodox, faithful reader to apply appropriate filtering.

I see your point on having different lenses for different audiences. I’m just not sure that I like it.

…there is a fine line that the Church cannot cross where apologetics becomes deception… That point is not WHAT we say, but what we ALLOW others to believe.

…if course I could be wrong after all. I read once that in the early Church, catechumens were allowed to believe that the Eucharist was merely a symbol, as opposed to Jesus’ body. It was done for protection purposes of the Church. I’m not sure if information was merely withheld though, or if Catechumens back then were deceived.

In any case, I’m interested in learning more about the fine line between ‘lenses’ and ‘deception’… At what point does one end and the other begin?

 

[RPRPsych]

One thing helpful to consider is that CNS is an arm of the USCCB (therefore, just due to it being a conflict of interest, you can expect anything talking about the USCCB to be of the veracity of a press release from a corporation…probably factual in of itself, but definitely written in a light to support the sponsor’s overall objectives).

One other thing that is helpful to remember is that CNS is essentially a mainstream media wire feed (a “Catholic” version of the AP. a Catholic version of “Religion News Service”). The journalists who work for CNS are all mainstream, unionized journalists…just the same as the ones who work for the NY Times.

The reason why the second point is true is that they will generally have the same attitudes as any other journalist and will be looking through the same lenses. Again, not to say that what they post is inaccurate or untrue…but it is helpful to consider that the information is written from that point of view…and should be interpreted accordingly.

NOTE: I am NOT accusing CNS of being heterodox or schismatic (similar to statements I’ve made about National Catholic Reporter). I am simply saying that their stories are written in a certain manner than requires the orthodox, faithful reader to apply appropriate filtering.

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense.

 

[TEPO]

If Church officials mend their stance on civil unions to support the positive legal or financial benefits of gay unions -they would be adjusting the gravity of right and wrong based on temporal needs of the flesh -humanism.

…St. Augustine did well in being able to distinguish the differences between the soul and the body. The fact that the two are always in conflict resembles the timeless battle that Catholics must face. But we are called to be Saints not Humanists, and it’s not easy to deny the flesh, because the body argues with the soul.

…Even Jesus Christ Himself seemed to have to face this very battle – My God My God… (He could have jumped off the cross at any time). Jesus made His decision. We should follow His example.

 

[McCall1981]

Does Italy, or any other country, have now a civil construct of “civil unions” that includes siblings, roommates or other partnerships? In the US, the states that passed civil union laws all had wording making it a domestic arrangement parallel to marriage. So, it wouldn’t apply (in existing US civil union laws) to roommates, siblings, etc.

I have read that other countries do have legal unions like this, but I don’t really know much about them.

If Church officials mend their stance on civil unions to support the positive legal or financial benefits of gay unions -they would be adjusting the gravity of right and wrong based on temporal needs of the flesh -humanism.

…St. Augustine did well in being able to distinguish the differences between the soul and the body. The fact that the two are always in conflict resembles the timeless battle that Catholics must face. But we are called to be Saints not Humanists, and it’s not easy to deny the flesh, because the body argues with the soul.

…Even Jesus Christ Himself seemed to have to face this very battle – My God My God… (He could have jumped off the cross at any time). Jesus made His decision. We should follow His example.

Very well said

 

[MarcoPolo]

Uhh I’m somewhat concerned with Cardinal Dolan’s quote “Bravo” at Michael Sam coming out though. While I do not get annoyed at people coming out (and it in fact can be for a very good reason, such as Ellen Page’s coming out speech), I see it as something neutral. Saying “Bravo” makes it sound like something commendable, which in Page’s (and DeGeneres before her) case is probably true, but I’m not quite as sure with Sam.

I’m not familiar enough––what was commendable about Page’s and DeGeneres’ speeches?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I’m not familiar enough––what was commendable about Page’s and DeGeneres’ speeches?

I think she was referring to not getting annoyed at people coming out, not that they were commendable.

 

[Estevao]

The media does not have an anti-Catholic bias.
They report what the pope says. If the pope speaks in general terms and he leaves his words to be interpreted, then of course the media will try to interpret them–this is the job of reporters, trying to make sense of what people say and trying to give it context.
Perhaps the pope is speaking non-specifically on purpose, for effect and to make people discuss a topic or get uncomfortable or explore a topic?
Could be.
Either way, it’s up to him to be more specific if he wants to be and for whatever reason he chooses not to…
when/if he does, the media will report his words then, too.

.

No, the media does have an anti-catholic bias (or rather IMO, a bias for their own agenda, and thus a bias against the largest institution standing in opposition to that agenda). The media simply ignores the numerous things the pope says (actually the vast majority of the things he says) that they can’t twist to suit their agenda because they are plainly and clearly C-A-T-H-O-L-I-C, because they want to cause discord and confusion. That demonstrates a willful blindness.

Maybe you’ve heard of Michael Voris. He worked in the news media for decades and won four emmys I believe. He is an expert in how the news media works. Watch what he said about how the media twists what Catholic prelates say, specifically after 2:30:

youtube.com/watch?v=wBG7AJEP1tQ

Also what kind of “context” do you think it would be appropriate to give these statements from the leader of the Catholic Church? Perhaps Catholic moral teachings that can be easily found in the Catechism?

 

[Oren]

saying ‘bravo’ to the guy is a judgment. a judgment that coming out gay is good. if Dolan wanted to truly not judge, he would have said, no comment, and then recited the teaching against homosexuality.

 

[RosslynV]

As to the title of this thread I ask “why?” What is there to study? Civil unions are immoral just as “gay weddings” are.

 

[Slaney]

Yahoo, off-course if they say it then it must be true !

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

saying ‘bravo’ to the guy is a judgment. a judgment that coming out gay is good. if Dolan wanted to truly not judge, he would have said, no comment, and then recited the teaching against homosexuality.

Given that the closet is morally bad leaving the closet is not bad.

 

[Corki]

Given that the closet is morally bad leaving the closet is not bad.

The “closet” is not morally bad. At best, it’s morally neutral. There is nothing wrong with simply deciding that your sexual attractions, let alone your sex life is private and not something that needs to be discussed.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

The “closet” is not morally bad. At best, it’s morally neutral. There is nothing wrong with simply deciding that your sexual attractions, let alone your sex life is private and not something that needs to be discussed.

The closet is not merely just not discussing your sex life or attractions, it is watching everything you say, manipulating the truth and often just plain lying to convince people you are heterosexual when you aren’t. Lying to everyone you know, even those you really care about takes a heavy toll on people and many turn to substance abuse to cope.

 

[Corki]

The closet is not merely just not discussing your sex life or attractions, it is watching everything you say, manipulating the truth and often just plain lying to convince people you are heterosexual when you aren’t. Lying to everyone you know, even those you really care about takes a heavy toll on people and many turn to substance abuse to cope.

If you lie, of course it’s bad. If you simply keep it to yourself, it is not morally wrong. It is not a moral requirement to disclose a disordered sexuality.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

If you lie, of course it’s bad. If you simply keep it to yourself, it is not morally wrong. It is not a moral requirement to disclose a disordered sexuality.

If you don’t lie then you’ll get outed sooner or later. Questions start getting raised when a people shows zero interest in opposite sex. Personally I got several extremely unflattering rumors started at school after I kept turning down attractive people asking me out. Eventually I had to lie and pretend I was dating someone outside the school to stop getting called ****** despite the fact I’m not even a lesbian (even if I was that behavior is utterly unacceptable). It’s probably magnitudes worse for an LGB person.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=Joie de Vivre;11807429]If you don’t lie then you’ll get outed sooner or later. Questions start getting raised when a people shows zero interest in opposite sex. Personally I got several extremely unflattering rumors started at school after I kept turning down attractive people asking me out.

Right, because, you know, appearence is such a GREAT way towards a lasting Catholic relationship and marriage…good looks last 4eva!

Eventually I had to lie and pretend I was dating someone outside the school to stop getting called ****** despite the fact I’m not even a lesbian (even if I was that behavior is utterly unacceptable). It’s probably magnitudes worse for an LGB person.

:console:

It is unacceptable, but let’s face it. society is obsessed with homosexuality. In some cases, if you hug your sister or your best girl friend, why, you “must be gay!”

 

[Catolico65]

The closet is not merely just not discussing your sex life or attractions, it is watching everything you say, manipulating the truth and often just plain lying to convince people you are heterosexual when you aren’t. Lying to everyone you know, even those you really care about takes a heavy toll on people and many turn to substance abuse to cope.

Using the same logic should people also come out if they are attracted to animals or children.

The truth is the aforementioned are disordered every much bit as homosexual desires and as such shouldn’t be embraced but rejected. After all, every thought and desire we have should not be accepted just because we have them.