Pope Warns Against New Colonialism: Corporations, Loan Agencies, and Austerity Measures That Hurt Poor

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CHESTERTONRULES said:
I agree. It is a disappointment.

We can trust that he will remain faithful with regard to Church doctrine, but he is off the rails on his political views.
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I would change “his political views” to “your political views” to make your statement more accurate.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
That’s because you are left of center in your views.
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I would say that the words of this, and other Popes, transcend politics.

Each Pope has something to teach us- something valid to teach us.

I try to listen, not criticize the words or expressed views of any Pope. All of our Popes for the last 150 years at least have been exceedingly holy men and I place my trust in them.

But thanks for not calling me a Communist! I do lean left as you point out.
 
ringil said:
I would say that the words of this, and other Popes, transcend politics.

Each Pope has something to teach us- something valid to teach us.

I try to listen, not criticize the words or expressed views of any Pope. All of our Popes for the last 150 years at least have been exceedingly holy men and I place my trust in them.

But thanks for not calling me a Communist! I do lean left as you point out.
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I believe that the pope has strayed far to the left compared to previous popes. How else would you explain the praise he is receiving from leftists and the discouragement he engenders among free market advocates? This was not the case with previous popes.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I believe that the pope has strayed far to the left compared to previous popes. How else would you explain the praise he is receiving from leftists and the discouragement he engenders among free market advocates? This was not the case with previous popes.
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So the litmus test for popes is how much he’s hated on?

If Jesus said, “Don’t trash the environment, Don’t become greedy to the point of being indifferent to the needs of the poor,” and the leftist governments agreed with Him, that means Jesus strayed too far to the left?
 
EIF5A said:
So the litmus test for popes is how much he’s hated on?

If Jesus said, “Don’t trash the environment, Don’t become greedy to the point of being indifferent to the needs of the poor,” and the leftist governments agreed with Him, that means Jesus strayed too far to the left?
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That’s not what the pope said. Conservatives would agree with your statements.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Even in democratic nations 51% of the voters can forcefully confiscate the property of others using the force of government. Actually, Americans give a higher percentage of their incomes to charity than any other nation. We’ve learned that giving it to government does not usually improve the lives of the poor.

Chesterton was right about most things…🙂
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Sort of the way they are forcing us to accept fracking under our home (including a whole urban middle class residential area, incluing 2 elementary schools), thereby forcing us to accept the risk of explosion and air and water pollution, and probably higher water rates once the city finds it has to bring the water within the “maximum contamination limits,” which BTW are set way higher than actual safe limits.

Oh, I forgot, the U.S. is no longer a democracy. My mistake. It’s not socialist either to much of an extent (I mean there is virtually no “caring and sharing” to any effective extent that I know of).

It’s… ? … a plutocracy, or capitalistocracy, or multinationalcorpocracy. We really need a new word for this horrible beast that is destroying the earth and the people and others of God’s creation thereupon. This multinational corp beast that is above all govs of the world romping around the world devouring resources and excreting pollution and products, threating to destroy life and souls.

Where’s St. Michael the Archangel when you need him?
 
lynnvinc said:
Sort of the way they are forcing us to accept fracking under our home (including a whole urban middle class residential area, incluing 2 elementary schools), thereby forcing us to accept the risk of explosion and air and water pollution, and probably higher water rates once the city finds it has to bring the water within the “maximum contamination limits,” which BTW are set way higher than actual safe limits.

Oh, I forgot, the U.S. is no longer a democracy. My mistake. It’s not socialist either to much of an extent (I mean there is virtually no “caring and sharing” to any effective extent that I know of).

It’s… ? … a plutocracy, or capitalistocracy, or multinationalcorpocracy. We really need a new word for this horrible beast that is destroying the earth and the people and others of God’s creation thereupon. This multinational corp beast that is above all govs of the world romping around the world devouring resources and excreting pollution and products, threating to destroy life and souls.

Where’s St. Michael the Archangel when you need him?
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Typical alarmist environmental rant, devoid of facts.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Typical alarmist environmental rant, devoid of facts.
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I am an Environmental Studies professor and have 50 years worth of facts, but I’m not going to write a dissertation here (there’s a word limit). However, you could read Pope Francis’s Laudato Si; quite a bit of it is right there; he’s tremendously knowledgeable and concerned about environmental harms to creation and that’s why his first words as pope, after asking us to pray for him, were “We must protect creation.”

Any good Christians would have had their “antennae” raised over the past 50 or more years (depending on their age) re problems, including environmental problems, for which they were in part responsible and would have been mitigating these, with the help of God’s almighty grace, with prayers and supplications to God for help in mitigating these.

Quite frankly I have never – since I was a kid in the 50s-- considered Christians in America to be very Christian. They may go to church on Sundays, but look at what they do during the week. Appalling! (However, as an adult, I’ve mellowed a bit and do see some people in America who are truly Christian – they are in the small minority.)

And the worst are those who not only refuse to accept what their responsibilities as Christians are, but smear those who are doing right, then put forth efforts to dissuade others from doing right.

I had an elderly Hindu friend, who was engaged in various charitable works before her passing. She used to say, “If people can’t do good [if they don’t have the time or money to do charity], then at least they shouldn’t do bad,” appalled as she was by the evil in the world.

Those who refuse to do right re environmental problems they themselves are partly responsible for, at least they should not be in the business of dissuading others from doing right.
 
EIF5A said:
What’s the difference between that and what the pope said?

The basic principle is, Don’t be blinded by money.
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The pope is attacking an economist system and promoting a dubious “scientific” movement that is grounded in leftism.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
The pope is attacking an economist system and promoting a dubious “scientific” movement that is grounded in leftism.
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What is being attacked is greed and indifference to the needs of the poor for the pursuit of money.

Just because the majority of the “left” supports something doesn’t objectively make something wrong.

The scientific consensus agrees that humans impact global climate.

Now what should be done to address this is a separate political issue.
 
I think in the US you often confuse democratic socialism with hard line communism. In Europe we take a more favourable view of Social Democratic politics and many Catholics belong to Socialist Parties and have help office in government.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
The pope is attacking an economist system and promoting a dubious “scientific” movement that is grounded in leftism.
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The question is whether he is really “attacking” capitalism, or doing like previous popes and pointing out that markets by themselves are not sufficient.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
The pope is attacking an economist system and promoting a dubious “scientific” movement that is grounded in leftism.
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Just like what my mom (a Catholic-hating Protestant staunch Republican) said, “Catholics are communists.”

Of course, that was in the 50s during the McCarthy era, and she also thought our Unitarian neighbors next door were communist, as well. (I was so surprised some 10 years later when I talked to the neighbor and she said something disparaging about the Egyptian President Nasser being a communist, since I had always thought of her as a communist.)

Anyway, the upshot was that by the time I got to thinking for myself, reading the Bible, and realized Christianity and Jesus were really pretty much to the left, the idea that Catholics were communists was sort of a plus, so I had no problem converting when I married by Catholic husband (from India) in 1969.

So I guess if one hates leftism, then perhaps he/she isn’t really a Catholic ? Does that make sense ?? Or it would be like a Catholic who hates Catholicism.
 
lynnvinc said:
Just like what my mom (a Catholic-hating Protestant staunch Republican) said, “Catholics are communists.”

Of course, that was in the 50s during the McCarthy era, and she also thought our Unitarian neighbors next door were communist, as well. (I was so surprised some 10 years later when I talked to the neighbor and she said something disparaging about the Egyptian President Nasser being a communist, since I had always thought of her as a communist.)

Anyway, the upshot was that by the time I got to thinking for myself, reading the Bible, and realized Christianity and Jesus were really pretty much to the left, the idea that Catholics were communists was sort of a plus, so I had no problem converting when I married by Catholic husband (from India) in 1969.

So I guess if one hates leftism, then perhaps he/she isn’t really a Catholic ? Does that make sense ?? Or it would be like a Catholic who hates Catholicism.
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I hate leftism because it hurts people.

Leftism makes charity nearly impossible because it makes individuals slave of the government.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Thanks to capitalism and globalization nearly 2 billion people have been lifted out of extreme poverty over the past 25 years. The pope is attacking this system. It makes no sense.
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Two billion? If that were true, it would represent nearly 30% of the entire population of the earth. One could render the statement true, I imagine, by using a convienent definition of “extreme poverty”. But even at that, lifted from “extreme poverty” to what? Just plain old everyday poverty?

The pope is not attacking capitalism nor he is a Socialist, not when the word “socialist” means the political philosophy of Karl Marx. From what he has said in *Laudato Si’ it would be more accurate to say Pope Francis opposes laissez-faire capitalism and unregulated markets, those markets that are in reality controlled by wealth and power.

Free market capitalism is a myth, a system in that in the U.S. is indeed regulated but would more accurately be described as “fixed”. Does one really suppose Wall Street would embrace a free market rather than one they could manipulate?
 
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