Pope: We're not in the business of eternal condemnation

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Disconnected journalism, if you ask me.

What does condemnation (to Hell, I presume) have to do with succumbing to the vernacular Mass, for example?
 
While I know that many faithful Catholics equate a de-emphasis on publicly enforcing Catholic morality with promoting immorality, I think that Pope Francis has shrewdly discovered that a movement focused on what you can’t do will have difficulty growing in the modern West. Most people don’t understand Christian morality, let alone agree with it, and so trying to convince people to become Christian by letting them know how much stuff they won’t be able to do is a sure path towards being tuned out.

On the other hand, I’ve seen young people genuinely drawn by the beauty and goodness of Catholicism and Catholics. Almost inevitably, those people fall in line with Christian morals. Either they open themselves up so that they come to understand and agree with them, or they decided to submit to the authority of the Church. , ,
 
The archconservative Catholic prefers to have a set of fixed rules which, if followed takes you to heaven, if not you go to hell. That’s quite similar thinking to some Protestant brands of Christianity. Pope Francis puts a spanner in the works. Good on him!
 
MacBP said:
While I know that many faithful Catholics equate a de-emphasis on publicly enforcing Catholic morality with promoting immorality, I think that Pope Francis has shrewdly discovered that a movement focused on what you can’t do will have difficulty growing in the modern West.
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Actually, I think he has " shrewdly discovered" the Gospel. 😃
 
Hans_W said:
The archconservative Catholic prefers to have a set of fixed rules which, if followed takes you to heaven, if not you go to hell. That’s quite similar thinking to some Protestant brands of Christianity. Pope Francis puts a spanner in the works. Good on him!
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Depends on the way you look at it. It is possible to play baseball without drawing white lines in the grass to separate fair from foul. But sooner or later, you’d wish you had drawn some lines.
 
As one who periodically falls and wanders outside of the white lines, I find the Holy Father’s reminder of God’s mercy and the Church’s mission to preach that mercy a refreshing and welcome addition to my Lenten reflections. As another poster said, the Pope’s emphasis on mercy is fully within the message of the Gospel and the life of Jesus. I am a sinner and I cannot hide from that, but the Pope reminds me that I cannot hide from God’s mercy either.
 
Tsuwano said:
As one who periodically falls and wanders outside of the white lines, I find the Holy Father’s reminder of God’s mercy and the Church’s mission to preach that mercy a refreshing and welcome addition to my Lenten reflections. As another poster said, the Pope’s emphasis on mercy is fully within the message of the Gospel and the life of Jesus. I am a sinner and I cannot hide from that, but the Pope reminds me that I cannot hide from God’s mercy either.
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Does that mean God never punishes, though?
 
That’s a great theological question. Is it God who chooses to punish or do we choose to punish ourselves by rejecting God? Does God close the door on us or do we close the door on God? Does God condemn us to hell or do we condemn ourselves to hell?
 
I’m saying that based on our Act of Contrition, which, depending on which one you’ve memorized, says basically that “I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments…”

Does anyone actually select punishment per se?
 
While I most certainly do agree with what the pope is saying, the problem is that the macabre world of hell and eternal punishment is always going to be more psychologically riveting that the idea of even redemption. Fear is a fundamental building block of our biology and our survival instinct. The mere fact that Christian teaching contains eternal damnation as one of its tenets means that people will just through instinct alone pay more attention to the assessment of such a great danger, to the detriment of the most fundamental Christian teaching, which indeed is deliverance, mercy, redemption.
 
OTOH, there is the danger of presumption if one does not believe in a punishing God.

Or despair if one does not believe in a merciful God.

Seems like some kind of a balance is in order.

That said, maybe the Pope meant that the Church doesn’t condemn anyone to Hell. In that regard, I believe he is correct.
 
Darryl1958 said:
While I most certainly do agree with what the pope is saying, the problem is that the macabre world of hell and eternal punishment is always going to be more psychologically riveting that the idea of even redemption. Fear is a fundamental building block of our biology and our survival instinct. The mere fact that Christian teaching contains eternal damnation as one of its tenets means that people will just through instinct alone pay more attention to the assessment of such a great danger, to the detriment of the most fundamental Christian teaching, which indeed is deliverance, mercy, redemption.
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I cannot agree with you less. Cannot love Pope Francis more.

“Giussani helped us rediscover a no-moralizing way of being Christians,” Guerra told Crux on March 6"

“We help each other remember that God’s mercy is greater than rules, virtues, and coherence,” he said, “so Christian life becomes more possible and happier.” 👍:gopray2:
  • “Christian morality isn’t never falling down, but always getting back up thanks to [Christ’s] hand that holds us.”* :love::signofcross:
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I devoured it. Then it kind of came back up in my mouth a little…
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Heh.

He’s right. The Church is not about condemnation, which is why we have a list of saints in heaven but not a list of sinners in hell.

However, we are also the Church Militant. We are at war with demons, and as soldiers we need discipline. This means diligent adherence to the morality laid down by the Church.
 
I can’t even remember the last time I heard eternal condemnation mentioned in a homily, but we do know that Jesus talked about it more than he did Heaven.
 
SWolf said:
Heh.

He’s right. The Church is not about condemnation, which is why we have a list of saints in heaven but not a list of sinners in hell.

However, we are also the Church Militant. We are at war with demons, and as soldiers we need discipline. This means diligent adherence to the morality laid down by the Church.
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If I go to my local baptist or evangelical Church, or engage my atheist Gay cousin in a theological talk, all you hear is the Catholic Church believes “rules” saves you, or that religious people condemn others to hell.
As another poster stated, I have never ever heard anyone with any authority in the Church talk about these things. I cannot remember the last time “Hell” was even spoken at Mass.

Sometimes I wonder what Pope Francis hears about things and it can seem like he is speaking in a completely different language of worldview than many of us have.
His views on capitalism, corporal punishment of children by fathers, and this idea that “rules” are bad have a very, very foreign ring to them. I don’t think many expected this of a South American Pope, but we should have. Because he is a product of his culture, and when you apply his words to different cultures, you can get turned around and confused real quick. Of course I have no problem with what he actual said. What makes me a little ill is the media and even this author’s perpetual hijacking of the man.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
If I go to my local baptist or evangelical Church, or engage my atheist Gay cousin in a theological talk, all you hear is the Catholic Church believes “rules” saves you, or that religious people condemn others to hell.
As another poster stated, I have never ever heard anyone with any authority in the Church talk about these things. I cannot remember the last time “Hell” was even spoken at Mass.
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If you look at a pastor’s sermon and compare it to the words of Jesus in the gospel, it’s clear we are far from being too harsh in our words or understating the role of mercy. I remember when I started seriously reading the Bible, and being shocked by how harsh Jesus was. My middle school religion textbooks sugar-coated all his teachings.

Looking at your typical confession line, it’s also clear people aren’t really taking advantage of the mercy God offers either, even when confession is stressed from the pulpit. I admit to being guilty of this on several occasions.
 
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