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ProVobis
Guest
Yup. And all we hear is the seeming condemnation of the way the Church has managed to sustain itself for over 1950 years. A little irony there.
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Pulvis
Guest
If our Priests and Bishops did a little more to emphasize the totality of Church teachings on both Hell and God’s Mercy through Christ, the confession lines would be at least as long as the Communion lines on any given Sunday. And the confessionals would need to be open more than 30 minutes a week. An emphasis on Mercy without an emphasis on confession and Penance is a one sided coin that will fail to buy much in the long run.
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SWolf
Guest
There is a parish my wife and I sometimes go to that has confession 45 minutes before each mass as well as a few hours on Saturday. Even with three priests hearing confessions, they can’t get through them all.
Before the final blessing, the Priest asked that in the future, those without serious sins go to confession at the allotted times Saturday so those with serious sins could be absolved before Mass so they could take communion.
I wonder how many Parish Priests would kill to have such a problem.
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LongingSoul
Guest
He wrote - “While I most certainly do agree with what the pope is saying, the problem is that the macabre world of hell and eternal punishment is always going to be more psychologically riveting that the idea of even redemption. Fear is a fundamental building block of our biology and our survival instinct. The mere fact that Christian teaching contains eternal damnation as one of its tenets means that people will just through instinct alone pay more attention to the assessment of such a great danger, to the detriment of the most fundamental Christian teaching, which indeed is deliverance, mercy, redemption.”
The fear you are talking about as biological and a survival response, is not what the ‘fear’ in biblical terms means which is more ‘respect’ or ‘awe’. We are not meant to fear hell in the biological sense. We are meant to fear God in the respect/awed sense.
Hell is a choice we make in rejecting God. It is not a place God sends someone as a punishment for sin. Our relationship with God has to be one of hope and trust and love absent fear for it to be genuine.
1 John 4 16-18 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
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kozlosap
Guest
First of all , thank you all for your very thoughtful responses. As a progressive person , I’m always in the minority on CAF, but , I have learned so much from even the most radical traditional. The Gospels and Corporeal Works of Mercy have, for the last fifty years ,been the filter from which I judge most issues in my life. Do I believe that this Pope, who walks in the shoes of the Fisherman, will be able to change dogma? Of course not! From his writings though , it appears that he wants us to focus more on helping others instead of continually repeating the big No No’s - No Birth Control, No living together and no Gay issues. When he built the bathroom and showers for the homeless in Vatican Square and then let a homeless man be buried in an area reserved for church officials , he totally backed up his very Jesuit views. Hopefully a Church that is there for every sinner will bring many back to the fold of Our Lord’s arms instead of pushing most of humanity away . PEACE …
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TCEL
Guest
Pope Francis also mentions the devil a lot, and when I started reading some of Pope Benedict’s work, I was surprised by how “progressive” he seemed. Neither image jived with what I had expected from media depiction. I came of age while Benedict was pope, so this has been a fascinating (and sometimes frustrating) discovery for me.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
My guess is not as many as you think.
Usually if a priest wishes to have more people come to confession, he will be vocal about it at Mass and in bulletins and newsletters. Offering many chances for confession is also a great tool. Sadly, some priests may see confessions as another “meeting” on their outlook calendar.
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sennincatholic
Guest
I totally agree with those who say the Gospel is first of all a message of love and not of fear.We eventually make it to Heaven because of our love of God(and His mercy of course) and not because of our fear of Hell.Some people on this forum make it seem as if the Pope is claiming that Hell or punishment does not exist,because he talks alot about us believing in the Mercy of God.That is not true!He has spoken alot about the Devil before.Lets learn to focus on the core message of the Gospel,which is that of love and mercy, and not that of fear or punishment!
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
It isnt necessarily that “some” on this forum think that. it is that the media, and posters who perhaps hold beliefs contrary to the Church and God like to superficially look at the statements of this Pope and think that anything goes and the CHurch is just a nice feeling place to be “spiritual”
Meanwhile, the ignorance of consciences creates an even more sinful world and populates hell at a rate God would never wish for His Children. Every time we ignore the true message of obedience and repentance, we maryter a saint, and we nail Our Lord to the Cross. When we supplant our own tainted and biased wants and wills with that of Our Father in Heaven we spit in the face of Mary, Jesus and the Saints who died so that we may live.
When we talk of ABC or Women Priests or Homosexual “marraige” or other things we are putting our genitalia above our Savior.
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Pulvis
Guest
i sincerely wish my parish had that problem.
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zz912
Guest
EXACTLY!!!
What is God being merciful towards, if there is no hell? People don’t go to confession because they don’t think there is any danger of them going to hell, because priests have avoided telling the FULL Catholic truth for 50 years.
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Tsuwano
Guest
No, but they do select to be separated from God and that, in itself, is punishment. Is it punishment inflicted by God? Not really. It is a chosen separation.
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Tsuwano
Guest
God is not merciful because of hell. God is merciful because of his love. Hell is the result of not abiding in God’s love. I do not agree that priests have avoided telling the full Catholic truth for 50 years. I think some simply prefer to hear the truth delivered in the harshest of tones.
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sennincatholic
Guest
:sad_yes:
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zz912
Guest
I didn’t say God was merciful because of hell. I said if there is no hell, then what are we being saved from?!?! And what is God being merciful towards?!?!?
And your opinion about priests avoiding telling the full Catholic truth for 50 years is in conflict with the direct evidence. There’s even video of Cardinal Dolan admitting as much.
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RGCheek
Guest
Matthew chapter 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
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RGCheek
Guest
From the article:
"A pope whose most famous soundbite is “Who am I to judge?” was at it again on Saturday, insisting that the mission of Christianity isn’t to “eternally condemn” anyone, but rather to offer God’s mercy to “every person who asks for it with an honest heart.”
That mercy, he said, will often seem unfair to people excessively focused on rules.
“Christian morality isn’t a titanic, voluntary, solitary effort against the world,” the pope said. “Christian morality is the answer given by a surprising mercy, unpredictable, [and] considered ‘unjust’ by human criteria.”
Francis said that message of mercy is especially directed to those who are alienated or distant from the faith.
“The way of the Church is to leave the building in search of those who are far away,” the pontiff said, repeating a point he made to 20 new cardinals installed last month."
This is exactly right as I understand it.
The Gospel is two parts as demonstrated in the first gospel sermon recorded in Acts chapter 2:
"A pope whose most famous soundbite is “Who am I to judge?” was at it again on Saturday, insisting that the mission of Christianity isn’t to “eternally condemn” anyone, but rather to offer God’s mercy to “every person who asks for it with an honest heart.”
That mercy, he said, will often seem unfair to people excessively focused on rules.
“Christian morality isn’t a titanic, voluntary, solitary effort against the world,” the pope said. “Christian morality is the answer given by a surprising mercy, unpredictable, [and] considered ‘unjust’ by human criteria.”
Francis said that message of mercy is especially directed to those who are alienated or distant from the faith.
“The way of the Church is to leave the building in search of those who are far away,” the pontiff said, repeating a point he made to 20 new cardinals installed last month."
This is exactly right as I understand it.
The Gospel is two parts as demonstrated in the first gospel sermon recorded in Acts chapter 2:
- We have all sinned and rejected God to some degree or another and deserve eternal death.
- Jesus died for our sins if we will just accept Him as our Lord and Savior and be baptized into the church for the forgiveness of sins.
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Tigg
Guest
I see the Crux is at it again. Of course the Church has never condemned anyone to hell - not even Judas, and the title of this article, will, (as is its purpose) give “merciful” spin and mislead others without telling the whole story.
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Tigg
Guest
We eventually make it to heaven because **a.) **With grace we see ourselves as God sees us with our weakness and sin and, b.) because having realized (a.) we are truly **repentant **for having sinned against such Goodness. Sometimes fear is the only impetus in turning away from sin (although that is imperfect contrition.) How dangerous to think (or presume) one only needs to love God to be saved. Hopefully that love will lead to sorrow for our offenses, but make no mistake - without repentance, no mercy will be forthcoming. “Repentance is the door, is the key that unlocks mercy.”
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RGCheek
Guest
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