Pope won't call Islam religion of peace

[cathgal]

**ISLAM IS TERRORISM ACCORDING TO THEIR BOOKS: **

****Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”
***Qur’an 8:67 ***“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html#terrorism

That’s what the Pope meant. ‘…it also has other elements.’ He knows what he’s talking about. Islam has two face.

 

[MikeWM]

**ISLAM IS TERRORISM ACCORDING TO THEIR BOOKS: **

****Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”
***Qur’an 8:67 ***“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html#terrorism

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

 

[cathgal]

MikeWM:

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

If you mean in the Old Testament, I agree, but not so in the New Testament. The New Testament was hidden in the Old, and the Old was revealed in the New.

When Christ came, He fulfilled and perfected it.

 

[Loboto-Me]

MikeWM:

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

Remember, Christianity started with Christ… Christ is in the SECOND part of the Bible, which is the New Testament. Does Jesus Christ (whom we Catholics follow) and His dicsiples tell us to be violent?

 

[selvaraj]

MikeWM:

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

Yes, ofcourse. I have read the whole Bible three times. Remember we are with the new covenant Jesus Christ.
Please read Luke 16:16.

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

MrS:

YEAH Benedict XVI… perhaps another sign he will show papal leadership in evangelism, and leave ecumenism to the Protestants… or others who think all religions are okay and the same.

The Decree on Ecumenism of Vatican II was produced by Catholics - or that’s what JP2 appears to have thought. I suppose it’s possible he was a Protestant.​

Just for the record, ecumenism is not the same thing as, and does not imply presuppose that, “all religions are okay and the same”. If anything, it implies they are not the same. ##

 

[Deus_Vult]

Lance:

The only terrorist I am aware of that claimed they were doing what they did in the name of Catholicism was the IRA. There was never a shortage of Catholics condemning what they did and there have not been any attacks in recient memory, so even though you are not a Catholic, you must admit we have good control of our religion. Much more than the Islamist. You made my point, even with the checking that went on some Nazis got away and some terrorist will slip through any net we cast but if we don’t try we will not catch any. Is that what you want?

Just to clarify…what exactly is a terrorist? I’m not defending what the IRA does but there has been a lot of talk in the media lately…saying how the British have a lot of experience dealing with terrorists having dealt with the IRA in the past. I do not remember ever hearing about the IRA blowing up a school bus or schools where children attend…or just plain targeting civilians. I know civilians were killed by the IRA but not at the scale that Muslim extremists take. Muslim extremists main target is civilian.

 

[MikeWM]

I’ll reply to all three posts replying to me at once.

Of course the NT supercedes the OT, and thank goodness too. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t pick verses out of the Christian ‘holy book’ to show a vengeful violent God, even if teaching says those verses have been superceded by the new Covenant.

It proves my point, really. You can’t just pick isolated verses out of context, from any Holy Book.

Mike

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Loboto-Me:

Remember, Christianity started with Christ… Christ is in the SECOND part of the Bible, which is the New Testament. Does Jesus Christ (whom we Catholics follow) and His dicsiples tell us to be violent?

Well, some people do seem to have a fondness for what He said about war and peace and sword ​

As though seeking to be a peace-maker, far from bringing His blessing (see Matt. 5), were an unspeakable sin.

If some “antichrist” is the true author of peace, then let us go forth, wage war, and kill, and thereby please Jesus the God of war and death - and so resist the temptation of satan to love one another.

I don’t Jesus was so like the devil. It seems they were swapped at birth ##

 

[Deus_Vult]

Karin:

My understanding of Islam (the religion) is that it does not condone this type of action (terrorism)

and it’s only an extremist minority…right???:banghead:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Deus Vult:

Just to clarify…what exactly is a terrorist? I’m not defending what the IRA does but there has been a lot of talk in the media lately…saying how the British have a lot of experience dealing with terrorists having dealt with the IRA in the past. I do not remember ever hearing about the IRA blowing up a school bus or schools where children attend…or just plain targeting civilians. I know civilians were killed by the IRA but not at the scale that Muslim extremists take. Muslim extremists main target is civilian.

Does the Brighton bombing of 1984 count ? The IRA tried their hand at blowing up the entire Cabinet - with some success. ​

What is planting in bombs in pubs, as at Warrington, if not targeting civilians ?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/301223.stm

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/12/newsid_2531000/2531583.stm

The second link has a list of all the events.

The IRA are, in a word, filth. It is indefensible that they should be allowed so much latitude to lie, murder, assault, deceive, and smuggle drugs and arms; Gerry Adams has even been elected to the Parliament of the very country he is trying to get out of Ireland - would Osama bin Laden be elected to Congress ? Of course not !

The only politicians who have spoken any sense about the developments today, are the Unionists: Ian Paisley very properly said that he is not going to believe the words of Gerry Adams until they are proved true by deeds. Tony Bliar is such a liar himself that he is incapable of recognising that Adams is an even greater liar than he is. The IRA are always making promises - and as often breaking them. It is quite scandalous that the US should be so tolerant of them; as one would expect, a terrorist is anyone inconvenient to the host state: and the IRA are not inconvenient to the US. Therefore, they do not count as terrorists ##

 

[Karin]

legeorge:

The Pope answered a specific question about Islam. He wasn’t questioned about any other religion. That is what this thread is about and that is why Islam is the only religion being discussed here. If a group of Jewish people had blown up hotels in Egypt or a clan of Mormons had bombed the subways in England, the errancy of their religious beliefs would be the topic of discussion in this thread. If you want to see Catholics defending their faith against other religious beliefs, you can check out the Non-Catholic Religions Forum and see lots of Catholics defending their beliefs and proclaiming that Catholicism is the One True Church. Does that help?

Yes, thank you

 

[Karin]

MikeWM:

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

Thank you.

 

[cathgal]

MikeWM:

I’ll reply to all three posts replying to me at once.

Of course the NT supercedes the OT, and thank goodness too. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t pick verses out of the Christian ‘holy book’ to show a vengeful violent God, even if teaching says those verses have been superceded by the new Covenant.

It proves my point, really. You can’t just pick isolated verses out of context, from any Holy Book.

Mike

We can pick any verse from the bible to indicate that Christianity is also violent but we know that verse comes from the OT and that violence IS NOT CONDONED after Christ came. Can we say the same of the Quaran if we pick a verse that indicate violence is condoned and that somewhere in the Quaran, there is a text that said violence is not condoned or it no longer applies? That’s the difference.

 

[MikeWM]

cathgal:

We can pick any verse from the bible to indicate that Christianity is also violent but we know that verse comes from the OT and that violence IS NOT CONDONED after Christ came.

We know that, because of cathechesis.

Can we say the same of the Quaran if we pick a verse that indicate violence is condoned and that somewhere in the Quaran, there is a text that said violence is not condoned or it no longer applies? That’s the difference.

Frankly I don’t know, I haven’t been taught in Islam. It probably varies from one Islamic sect to the other. When the Islamic leaders condemn the terror attacks, they quote bits of the Islam that require peace. Presumably they teach that those bits are more important than the violent bits, Presumably the extremists teach the opposite.

It comes down to teaching, you can’t deduce it just from the book alone (unless you do like some Protestants and take every word literally, which obviously leads to problems).

Mike

 

[itsjustdave1988]

violence IS NOT CONDONED after Christ came.

Hmmmm… so in the Catholic “just war” doctrine, the warring nations are supposed to just throw flowers at one another???

 

[UnworthySoul]

Karin:

Not since 9/11/01…but historically, probably if I took the time

Historically really has no bearing though. What happened then simply doesn’t matter right now. It’s what’s happening now that matters. And the simple truth is that 99% of these attacks involve radical Islam. So what is it in Islam that so many thousands see that allows them to commit such attacks and think it’s ok?

 

[UnworthySoul]

MikeWM:

Err… have you read a book called the Bible? There are masses of quotes you can take out of context to ‘prove’ Christianity is a horrifically violent religion, if you were so inclined.

Mike

You will only find ONE instance in the Bible where God calls for His followers to attack another people. Only once and it was against a specific tribe. And that was the Old Testament. You will find NOTHING like it in the New Testament.

 

[UnworthySoul]

Gottle of Geer:

If some “antichrist” is the true author of peace, then let us go forth, wage war, and kill, and thereby please Jesus the God of war and death - and so resist the temptation of satan to love one another.

I don’t Jesus was so like the devil. It seems they were swapped at birth ##

Did you mistype something here because I can’t understand what you’re saying at all. Not be snide, I really don’t get what you’re saying.

 

[Deus_Vult]

## Does the Brighton bombing of 1984 count ? The IRA tried their hand at blowing up the entire Cabinet - with some success.

What is planting in bombs in pubs, as at Warrington, if not targeting civilians ?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/301223.stm

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/12/newsid_2531000/2531583.stm

The second link has a list of all the events.

The IRA are, in a word, filth. It is indefensible that they should be allowed so much latitude to lie, murder, assault, deceive, and smuggle drugs and arms; Gerry Adams has even been elected to the Parliament of the very country he is trying to get out of Ireland - would Osama bin Laden be elected to Congress ? Of course not !

The only politicians who have spoken any sense about the developments today, are the Unionists: Ian Paisley very properly said that he is not going to believe the words of Gerry Adams until they are proved true by deeds. Tony Bliar is such a liar himself that he is incapable of recognising that Adams is an even greater liar than he is. The IRA are always making promises - and as often breaking them. It is quite scandalous that the US should be so tolerant of them; as one would expect, a terrorist is anyone inconvenient to the host state: and the IRA are not inconvenient to the US. Therefore, they do not count as terrorists ##

I actually looked at your second link before posting my earlier statement…I was not sure if indeed the IRA were not involved in targeting civilians. I am not an expert on the IRA but if you dig a little deeper on that website you will see that the pub bombings were British police and or British military hangouts. It still doesnt make it right…but what I was trying to say is you cannot compare apples to apples Islamic terrorists and the IRA. The Islamic terrorist intentionally target civilians if they stuck to military targets they would be considered an insurgency only and might be able to defend some of there actions. The British state department has even withdrew its calling the IRA terrorists.

Al-Qaeda terrorism is not on the same par as the IRA, Prime Minister Tony Blair has suggested.
He said IRA political demands or their previous atrocities could not be directly compared to fundamentalists who carried out the 9/11 US attacks.

This was the point I was trying to make…

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4718223.stm