Pornography, why do men do this?

[quasius]

Why do men do this? Three reasons:

1. Selfishness, i.e. lack of humility;
2. Lack of piety/obedience/lack of self-control;
3. fear of intimacy.

Your friend likely has at least some of these traits, if not all of them.

Send him to Every Man’s Battle, and this program will help him work on these issues:

everymansbattle.com/

I’m going to have to disagree with some of what you’ve been saying and I’ll start here. First off, I disagree with your recommendation of Every Man’s Battle. I’ve read it, I think it comes from a protestant tradition of assuming mankind is utterly depraved and contains straight-up bad advice. If I had to sum up that book in one sentence it would be “Try not to think about it until marriage and then do whatever you want with your wife.” It even contains advice to wives to make sure your husband is well-sexed before going on a business trip so he’s less tempted to flip on porn at the hotel. I’m not even a woman, and that offended me.
Instead of talking about the redemptive power of Christ to bring us from lust to love, he talks about not looking, not thinking, etc. While averting your eyes may be an important and necessary first step, it’s certainly not the stopping point this book seems to think it is.
If a man is truly pure and free from lust, he should be able to see a woman’s beauty without lust.
This is relevant for marriage since it’s certainly possible to lust after your spouse. This book largely misses that point.
I’d instead give a recommendation that was instrumental in my beating porn (always with God’s grace) which is Pope John Paul 2’s Theology of the Body. If you can’t read PhD-level theology & philosophy, get Christopher West’s commentaries (Theology of the Body for Beginners (easier) or Theology of the Body Explained (harder). Inside, the Pope lays out a beautiful vision of what it means to be created as men and women and shows how contrary this type of sexual impurity is to our dignity. And then through extensive reference to scripture, he talks about redemption of our bodies and spirits. How we can return to an original, unbroken state. It goes so much further than Every Man’s Battle ever does.

Secondly, saying people engaged in porn are “weak and impious” may be true; but I’m not sure it’s useful. That can be said of any of us. The saints realize their weakness to sin and need of a savior better than any of us.
I feel you don’t know what it’s like to have this terrible addiction. If you don’t, I’m glad for you. But please don’t cast people in my former position as some kind of pariah. If you don’t know from personal experience, it’s hard for me tell you what it’s like to have this constant and enormous temptation to do something you know deeply offends God (whom you love) and poisons your ability to have effective human relationships.

 

[pigpen]

I am too lazy to read through 98 posts in the thread, so I am sorry if someone else has already posted this.

Jeff Cavins has a talk on CD called “Defeating Satan’s Deadly Weapon Against Men”, and it is quite good.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Love & Responsibility by Pope JP2 is one of the best books I have ever read on marital sexuality. I have never read Every Man’s Battle, I typically don’t read books that are touted by Protestant talk show hosts (where I have always heard it advertised), that may sound offensive, but I only want a Catholic viewpoint. I find that many of my non Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, tend to view marital sex as a free for all, just because we’re married, and if a man asks for sex, the wife should come running or he might stray. I have seen that kind of rhetoric on tv evangelical shows in the past. I agree with you quasis, that I would be offended too, because there is a subtle implication that somehow a man is not really capable of controlling himself, it’s somehow his wife’s responsiblity to ensure he doesn’t stray or view porn.

With God, all things are possible. It’s by God’s grace that we avoid the temptation to sin. *

 

[quasius]

I agree with you quasis, that I would be offended too, because there is a subtle implication that somehow a man is not really capable of controlling himself, it’s somehow his wife’s responsiblity to ensure he doesn’t stray or view porn.

With God, all things are possible. It’s by God’s grace that we avoid the temptation to sin.

This.

That type of thinking is not only offensive, but it drains the Cross of it’s power. There’s no hope of redemption in that thinking, only a false dichotomy of suppress or indulge.

I have not read Love & Responsibility, but it’s on my bookshelf and I should read it. I don’t doubt it’s amazing from the author alone. I’ve also heard it described as something of a precursor to Theology of the Body, but a bit more focused on marital love where ToB is a bit more broad. But I don’t want to comment too much since I haven’t read it.
I’m just getting to the point where I can read JP2. I actually had to research and learn a lot of philosophy to be able to, but it was worth it to read that man. What an amazing gift God gave to this generation in JP2!

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes so true!!
Welcome to the faith, too by the way, quasis.

 

[quasius]

Yes so true!!
Welcome to the faith, too by the way, quasis.

Thanks. It’s been nearly 8 years now. It seemed like a good idea a time and it’s just gotten better and better. (Also my parents converted 3 years after I did. )

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks. It’s been nearly 8 years now. It seemed like a good idea a time and it’s just gotten better and better. (Also my parents converted 3 years after I did. )

How beautiful! Through you, Jesus worked to bring your parents to the faith. You’re a true blessing. :hug1:*

 

[mrpathetic]

.Instead of talking about the redemptive power of Christ to bring us from lust to love, he talks about not looking, not thinking, etc. While averting your eyes may be an important and necessary first step, it’s certainly not the stopping point this book seems to think it is…

Well, this is the process that has worked for my. As I have mentioned in this forum many times, I have simply given myself over to 100% continence. I make this sacrifice for the kingdom of heaven. So I have gone beyond “averting my eyes”, and simply given away my sex drive, completely. I feel that this is what Christ is calling me to. Perhaps it is what you should consider as well.

I have read much of West’s work. I found it to be an excellent intellectual exercise, but it had zero impact on my spiritually or emotionally. It did nothing to help my marriage. It might be doctrinally sound, but I could not relate to any of it.

Ultimately, I simply feel called a different way - to cut off my sexuality, and live the life free of it. After many years of trying to restart my sex life, this what I have called to. My sex life is pointless, and I have stopped trying to revive it; it serves no purpose today, other than to lead me to concupiscence.

p.s., understand this: not everyone is a fan of West. Some think that he is leading Catholic spouses to concupiscence. One of these people is Alice von Hildebrand. See a summation of her objections to West here:

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15950

 

[chaz0426]

First of all, the OP isn’t talking about a husband, but a boyfriend. That boyfriend has also said quite clearly that he is trying to overcome this. Slapping down an ultimatum will not fix things. If anything, it will make him feel that much more worthless when he falls. These are the sorts of addictions that people struggle with their whole lives. To be condescending with an ultimatum will only make that person shut themselves away. It took a lot of courage for that boyfriend to admit what he did. It seems to me that he’s doing a great deal more than most in attempting to conquer this problem; that needs to be acknowledged.

agreed

 

[quasius]

Well, this is the process that has worked for my. As I have mentioned in this forum many times, I have simply given myself over to 100% continence. I make this sacrifice for the kingdom of heaven. So I have gone beyond “averting my eyes”, and simply given away my sex drive, completely. I feel that this is what Christ is calling me to. Perhaps it is what you should consider as well.

I have read much of West’s work. I found it to be an excellent intellectual exercise, but it had zero impact on my spiritually or emotionally. It did nothing to help my marriage. It might be doctrinally sound, but I could not relate to any of it.

Ultimately, I simply feel called a different way - to cut off my sexuality, and live the life free of it. After many years of trying to restart my sex life, this what I have called to. My sex life is pointless, and I have stopped trying to revive it; it serves no purpose today, other than to lead me to concupiscence.

p.s., understand this: not everyone is a fan of West. Some think that he is leading Catholic spouses to concupiscence. One of these people is Alice von Hildebrand. See a summation of her objections to West here:

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15950

This is actually the saddest post in the entire thread, I think.
Our sexuality is a beautiful gift from God, not a chain! I hope you will see that one day…
It’s only a chain when satan gets ahold of it, but nothing satan can ever do is mightier than the sacrifice at Calvary. Please, please beg God to give you hope and bring you past the lust and addictions instead of attempting to destroy such a gift.

And I know not everyone is a fan of C West, but I honestly believe it’s because some people have either heard misrepresentations or are misunderstanding what he’s saying. Remember, he just faithfully repeats what the Holy Father gave us. He’s not some rogue theologian.

As for Alice von Hildbrant, I’ve listened to her. At least what I heard was very depressing to the point of sounding hopeless. When I listened to Alice, I felt like I was being yelled at for being a man. Talking about how all I was interested in was my “glorious orgasm” while the woman had all the pain. And that may be true in some men, but that’s all she was talking about. It’s like she was myopic on sin. She was just yelling about sin, sin, sin. Instead of proclaiming redemption, redepmtion, redemption as C. West does.

As I said before, I don’t need someone to yell at me for being a sinner. I already know that. I need to be reminded of Christ’s healing power and how I should be cooperating with it. Focusing on sin only separates us more from God. Satan wants us to focus on our sin and feel hopeless. We need to be conscious of our sin, for sure. But our focus and vision should be on the perfect and sinless image of Christ.

I’ll be praying for you, brother.

 

[mrpathetic]

Tonight, read Mark 9 and dwell on this portion of that chapter:

43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna, 10 into the unquenchable fire.
44
45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life crippled than with two feet to be thrown into Gehenna.
47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna,
48
where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’
49

The message of Mark 8 is clear. To enter the kingdom of heaven requires sacrifice. It requires more than Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross; it also requires personal sacrifice.

I had to cut off my sex drive, to have a shot at salvation, and to save my marriage. That was my sacrifice. No, I didn’t physically mutilate myself; than, in and of itself, would have been sinful. Instead, I just shut off my libido, and became a “virtual eunuch”. Now, my marriage is at least stable, and I have much more time for pennance, mortification, and prayer.

It is not a sacrifice that I wanted to make, but I did it anyway. It was not easy, but it was necessary. It is not something I wanted to do; it is something that I personally had to do.

Maybe other people don’t have to make that type of sacrifice. Maybe they can still have a sex life, and a shot at salvation. Good for them. I hope they are right. I had to, so I did it.

I am quite sure that other people are facing the same choice I am. I hope they make the right one.

“Those with ears ought to hear.”

 

[whatevergirl]

*mr p, I have followed your stories, and I’m sorry for your situation. But, we can do nothing IN ADDITION to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to ‘earn’ salvation. I think I know what you’re trying to imply but I don’t think that came across well. Christ’s death, God’s grace is what brings us to heaven…as Jesus’ followers …if we truly love Him, we will wish to unite our will to His, and follow Him. In sacrificing FOR him. In following Christ…we will have to sacrifice. But, to say that salvation for us requires ‘more than Christ’s sacrifice on the cross,’ is a misleading statement, as a Catholic.

More…than that?? *

 

[Dtmccameron]

All men dont do this!

I’m a heavy smoker. I know I shouldnt smoke, I sometimes despise myself for not having the strength of character to give it up but I keep on smoking despite making one resolution after another to stop. I guess I’m addicted to nicotine. Perhaps porn is a similar type of addiction?

Yeah kinda. When the porn addict get his ‘fix’ he’s actually getting doped up. Bit like heroin or meth. So even though he’s not putting any chemicals into his body, the perverted images, thoughts, whatever, they ah…He makes his own drugs.

It’s kinda neat, actually. Y’know, in a detached, objective sorta way. Little bit o’ this, dab of that, shock here, shock there, tah dah! You’re acting funny!

Now, what causes it?

Hmmm, Pride, I’d say. I don’t think a person can sin without Pride.

Lust is obvious, the whole way it, oh, what’s the word? Dehumanizes, let’s use that one, the woman. And then there’s the lack of purity and chastity.

I think Despair has a great deal to play with it. Pride might say, “I deserve to be loved!” and, Sloth perhaps, not wishing to work at it, leaves Pride unsatisfied, so turns to lust. Acting…selling “love”…Oh, and the Devil, clever ahem devil that he is, will naturally take up his part as the Accuser, which leads to more despair, which leads to more sinking into immorality. Numbs the tortured conscience till it’s dead, and then one has only the fallen for company.

It’s important to remember that there is a sort of principle of escalation. Just as the junkie has to bigger doses to get his fix, so must the sex addict sink deeper and deeper into depravity to sate his depraved appetite and silence the demons (They don’t shout accusations before a person sins! That’d be counterproductive!). (Who am I talking to?) Staying to long in the pornographic will escalate to more depraved acts, leading to murder, rape, sodomy, cannibalism, and, you know, the other things we end up hearing about on the 10 o’clock news.

This is actually the saddest post in the entire thread, I think.
Our sexuality is a beautiful gift from God, not a chain! I hope you will see that one day…

Yes, a gift. Not any sort of requirement or necessity. Not everyone can take the heat, some are too weak to avoid sin. So it is well that they should avoid temptation and all occasions of sin.

Well, this is the process that has worked for my. As I have mentioned in this forum many times, I have simply given myself over to 100% continence. I make this sacrifice for the kingdom of heaven. So I have gone beyond “averting my eyes”, and simply given away my sex drive, completely. I feel that this is what Christ is calling me to. Perhaps it is what you should consider as well

Mr Pathetic,

ahem Sorry, I feel like I’m insulting you when I address you by your nom de guerre. Anyhow, I’m vaguely aware of your particular situation and am not the least convinced nor satisfied that the course of action you’re taking is the appropriate one.

However, I wouldn’t say that what you’ve done is entirely wrong. It would do a hermit little good to have a raging libido. And except for those damned requirements to ‘multiply’ I’d think a mutually consented to period of celibacy would be lawful, at very least between kids 4 and 15.

Sex. It’s a gift. We don’t get to open all the presents under the tree. I’m off topic aren’t I? My apologies!

Basilisk, respectfully, I took the “would he kill himself?” part almost literally the first time I read it. I know it’s hyperbole, but I believe it goes too far. I would partly agree with Paulin that an ultimatum is not a great thing. It may be justified, but it may still bring resentment. Men don’t take well to ultimatums.

I disagree with you, Master Chevalier, for the first time, I think! But it may just be I have a larger tolerance for hyperbole. But ah, see, where I live, men have this thing with extracting their “Right” out of their wives, willing or not. Rather despicable. Regardless, the Priests have not failed to notice these crimes and often tell us, indeed, I think Fr. Corapi did once, where the “Women be obedient to your husbands” part, and then followed with the “Men, follow in the footsteps of Christ for His Bride”. And they always point to the crucifix for dramatic effect, and the majority of my peers recoil, but I relish the idea of so horrible and torturous and…glorious a demise. To sacrifice everything? That seems like that should be a prerequisite before one begins to court.

I agree with your second point, though. Our tiny egos can be quite vindictive.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I read through this thread a week or two ago, and the frank and open discussion in here is one of the reasons I decided to register. I won’t pretend to know while all men look at pornography, but I can speak a little from personal experience. Among me & my friends, sex was probably the biggest taboo we had growing up. Our parents wouldn’t discuss it, wouldn’t address it and basically pretended it didn’t exist. Even at the age of 16-17, my parents expected me to cover my eyes if we were watching a movie and there was any nudity on the screen (like most American families, gore & violence were okay). For my best friend & I, there was no bigger thrill than staying up until all hours of the night, flipping from Cinemax to Showtime to HBO (but mostly Cinemax), hoping to find even the smallest bit of skin. Once we got a bit older, we’d buy Playboy and rent adult movies. Instead of viewing it as a taboo, it was now a fun pastime for my friends and I to sit around, drink and laugh at what was on the screen.

For most of my adult life I didn’t believe that people could actually be addicted to pornography, but looking back on it I think that’s pretty much what was going on. The more I’d see, the more I’d want to see. Surprisingly, after I got married it only increased. My wife endured it for the most part, but looking back I can see how the objectification that goes along with it not only affected me but our relationship. About the time we got married, pornography on the internet was growing at an exponential rate, as were online adult video stores. Where before buying things was tempered by the embarrassment of having to go into a store and make a face-to-face purchase, now it could be done anonymously. To make matters worse, I wrote a review of a video for one site which put me on a list of top customers which led to me receiving free videos in the mail every other month or so. Couple that with the internet and it was something I had access to 24x7. And as the years went on, the adult industry continued to push boundaries, putting out more and more extreme content which only helps to desensitize people even further. As the years went on and we had our kids, we seldom had the opportunity to put videos in, but the internet was a constant temptation.

Although I couldn’t see it at the time, I can see now how it affected me. I grew to the point where it affected my expectations from my wife and I can now see the negative impact it was having on our relationship. Everything changed when we had our miscarriage. It turned our world upside down and disrupted our entire lives. I said elsewhere that it opened my eyes to the true depth of my love for my wife. Another benefit from it was that, since I was spending so much time focusing on supporting my wife, I didn’t have time to think about getting on the internet, let alone looking at any pornography. After a few weeks, I not only realized that I didn’t miss it, but I had another revelation about my wife and rediscovered just how much I was attracted to her. I’ve since deleted every last pornographic file & link on my PC, and am in the process of getting rid of the few videos we had left (a friend took most of them years ago).

While I’ve always believed that, if marriage is your vocation, God has one individual out there perfectly suited for you, it wasn’t until I opened myself up to that completely that I understood how wonderful a concept that is. I have a full understanding of how our marriage vows made us one whole individual on a spiritual level. She’s not only all I need but everything I could ever want. I think if other men could open themselves up to what God intended for them and their marriages, they would have no problem turning their back on other influences.

 

[DL82]

Porn addiction cost me my fiancee, the only woman I ever loved. That’s all I can say about it.

Not just the addiction itself, but the way it warped the way I acted and viewed women, and the guilt I was carrying about it.

The thing women have to remember is that men are programmed to act before we think. It’s the way we’re hard-wired from our hunter-gatherer days. Men would go hunting in packs and get themselves worked up into a frame of mind (a frame of mind that’s almost perfectly mimicked by porn - fear [of being caught] coupled with the promise of a reward) where one of their friends would shout “Ugh Ag”, meaning “throw your spear”, and without processing the command, the man would throw his spear, or his friend would shout “Aaaagh!”, meaning “run away”, and he’d turn and run away, then stop and think about what happened later. Pornography has its’ own “discourse”, its’ own language of words and symbols, which bore their way deeper and deeper into a man’s sub-conscious, until he can’t see the shape of a woman’s breasts without immediately having to fulfil the urge to masturbate. The things a man looking at porn can get attached to might have nothing to do with ‘real’ sex (that’s how fetishes develop), but they get hard-wired into his command-action reflex.

 

[Spiritoftruth]

…give up the boy friend until he grows into a man. Wait for him if you wish, i suggest that you find a man and be happy… peace:thumbsup:

 

[FanChan]

…give up the boy friend until he grows into a man. Wait for him if you wish, i suggest that you find a man and be happy… peace:thumbsup:

Yes, because addiction is just someone being immature and adolescent and nothing to do with a lifelong battle against Satan.

 

[pigpen]

Dr. Phil on porn -

drphil.com/articles/article/54/

<…snipped…>
*Here’s what Dr. Phil believes:

•It is not OK behavior. It is a perverse and ridiculous intrusion into your relationship. It is an insult, it is disloyal and it is cheating.

•Consider how it makes your partner feel. If it makes your partner feel ugly, hurt, deceived, lied to or inadequate, then it needs to stop. If it is eroding your relationship, it’s gone too far.

•Pornography isn’t real, it’s a fantasy. It’s makeup, beauty lenses, hair extensions, camera angles, lighting and silicone! It’s also somebody’s daughter who has taken a really, really wrong turn. She’s demeaning herself, debasing herself, humiliating herself and she’s being exploited by people who are funded by you. It is a sick, demented, twisted world. It’s not healthy, it’s not natural and it’s not normal.

•Viewing Internet pornography or engaging in cybersex is a short step to taking cheating to the next level.

•You need to tell your partner that viewing pornography is absolutely, unequivocally unacceptable in your relationship. Draw a line: Your partner needs to choose between the pornography or the relationship.*

 

[mrpathetic]

Yes, because addiction is just someone being immature and adolescent and nothing to do with a lifelong battle against Satan.

I agree that people who use pornography are, at some level, immature. It means that they have not progressed enough intellectually, or spiritually, to give up childish things.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

But I do disagree that pornography is not a “lifelong battle against Satan”. Some people fact this struggle their entire lives. They cannot break free, just us some people cannot break out of drug or alcohol dependency.

This is a tool of Satan, and whoever uses pornography is in the grip of Satan. I would argue that it is one of Satan’s most effective tools, in his ware for the souls of humanity.

Please, if you are subject to this addiction, get help. Here is a good place to start:

everymansbattle.com/

 

[Lifeisamazing]

Different men do it for different reasons, and women do it too.

It can get complicated. Quantity and quality- do you know what kind of porn he seeks? I can tell you that would clue you in on what is happening.

I have seen some of the stuff my very immature husband looks at- it is all about objectifying the woman into a 2 dimensional object to be used. It is all about having power over someone, based on what I was able to see. There are lots of types of free porn out there. I was able to see what he was searching for, and I cannot even say it here.

It is good that he says he wants to overcome it. My husband does not. He says “I’m a man. What do you want me to do?”

Be very careful, though. This is a big red flag that I took as boys will be boys while dating, but there was WAY more going on than I realized at the time.