Positive Aspects of Atheism?

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PelagiathePenit said:
progress, free-thinking, adventurous. Looking back in history, sometimes the people who rebelled against the church brought about change. they dared to expand what humans could do. I think I like that they are not afraid to question religion. Sometimes I think being devoutly religious can impair critical thinking, everything is the Lord’s plan and how dare you question or do things your own way.
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You should; probably read Church history.
The Catholic church and their religious developed many sciences, built most of the schools and hospitals, as well as being the single largest charitable organization in the world.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Other Christians say differently. They use words like: “despicable sinners, who do not deserve heaven, only hell”.
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Yes, some Christian, non-Catholic churches teach/believe that. However, you are posting on a Catholic forum so we’re not going to defend Protestant beliefs. If you want to discuss Protestant beliefs, you should find a Protestant forum.

In a sense, your quote is correct for Catholics, but we have a more nuanced take on it. On our own, we deserve hell, but the whole point of being Catholic is that we’re NOT on our own! We don’t have to live up to someone else’s idea of what a Christian should be, we only need to trust God. “God is love.” He is also merciful. If I didn’t believe that I wouldn’t be Catholic.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
My preference has nothing to do with reality. It is always positive to face reality. The universe does not care about us, and no one asserts that it does… God supposedly cares about us, but there is NO indication that he does. Of course, if I would be wrong, and if God would all of a sudden display his “love” for us in some appreciable manner, I would be HAPPY to change my mind. That is the difference between us. You are surrounded with the evidence of a non-caring God, and you keep on clinging to your belief - despite all the evidence to the contrary. 🙂
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God gave you your existence. However troubling you may find it, you cling to it as a gift.

To blame God for the troubles of the world seems no more positive than to blame the universe for creating you and finally dashing all prospects of immortality.

So I’m still asking, where is the positive in atheism, whereas you can certainly see that God offers a good deal more than nothingness at the end of our travails.
 
Cheiron said:
I feel a bit bad for Charlemagne III. He creates a thread that seriously and genuinely tries to build bridges and among a few positive responses, we also find this:

Positive aspects of atheism: “worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales”, “Nazi’s”, “No right or wrong, just opinions”, “tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism.”

I guess the Forum rules about being charitable don’t apply to Catholics.
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Rather than blowing off steam, why not offer some positive aspects of atheism.

Still waiting to hear of some, since so far as I know the word itself is negative.

No gods.
 
PelagiathePenit said:
progress, free-thinking, adventurous. Looking back in history, sometimes the people who rebelled against the church brought about change. they dared to expand what humans could do.
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Catholics also believe in progress, are free to think, and are adventurous.

Most of those who rebelled against the Church back through history were themselves members of the Church, not atheists. Think Protestant Reformation.
 
pianistclare said:
I kind of feel that way too. This thread has really gone sour.
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It went sour, if that’s what you want to call it, as soon as the atheists could not put together a reasonable list of positives for atheism. 🤷

Still waiting for the list to materialize.
 
Some atheists are good people. I have known some and I was pleased to call them my friends. There are atheists who don’t buy into Islamophobia and they get angry when someone misrepresents Islam. 🙂
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Rather than blowing off steam, why not offer some positive aspects of atheism.

Still waiting to hear of some, since so far as I know the word itself is negative.

No gods.
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I fear that if I, an atheist, offer positive aspects, it might sound like bragging.

You’re right ofcourse, the word is a negative, so it’s hard to ascribe something to atheism that is true for all atheists. I’d say the nonbelief in gods is a good thing, which is why it pains me to see that some atheists, like communists and monarchists, felt the need to replace them with earthly god-figures. Dear Leaders, Great Leaders, or in a more moderate form, kings, queens and princes.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
It went sour, if that’s what you want to call it, as soon as the atheists could not put together a reasonable list of positives for atheism. 🤷

Still waiting for the list to materialize.
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Oh I don’t think atheism is a positive thing, quite the contrary. But there have been many uncharitable posts.
By both sides.
 
Cheiron said:
You’re right ofcourse, the word is a negative, so it’s hard to ascribe something to atheism that is true for all atheists. I’d say the nonbelief in gods is a good thing, … .
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Why is the non-belief in God (gods) a good thing? You are offering a positive but I need more flesh on the bone.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Why is the non-belief in God (gods) a good thing? You are offering a positive but I need more flesh on the bone.
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Obviously what is a “good” thing depends upon your value-system and your preferences.

If you prefer to be a servant or a slave, if you prefer to be like an “insect” under a microscope, whose every act, every thought, every feeling is being scrutinized by a judge, if you have no problem with being tossed into everlasting torture for not repenting some perfectly normal human act… in that case Christianity is (and SHOULD be!) your valued choice. If you don’t mind that you cannot “earn” your way into heaven, if you have no problem with the idea that you have no real control over your final destination (“works alone cannot save you”), your answer is obvious.

If you like your internal freedom, if you want to live your life according to your own standards, if you abhor the idea of a supernatural “peeping Tom”, then atheism is the “better” choice.

But only YOU can make this choice, according to your preferences. 🙂

Of course the belief in the Christian God is not just a simple “I believe”. You MUST consider yourself a fallen, despicable sinner, who is powerless to earn anything better than eternal torment of incredible magnitude. Don’t forget that one of the mortal sins (maybe even the worst one) is “pride”. What can Christianity offer to a happy, well balanced, proud person who has well-deserved self-esteem? Nothing at all. Listen to what Jesus said in Luke 5:32 (biblehub.com/luke/5-32.htm) and in Mark 2:17 (biblehub.com/mark/2-17.htm).

Is this “fleshed” out enough for you?
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Other Christians say differently. They use words like: “despicable sinners, who do not deserve heaven, only hell”.
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Ignore them, they’re not Christians. If they were, they would know that only God can judge you, and therefore you have no obligation whatsoever to justify yourself to them, just as they have no obligation to justify themselves to you.

It is always wrong to try to coerce others into our own beliefs or to feign belief to fit in (Romans 14). Human dignity demands we must be free to believe whatever we think is right (Dignitatis Humanae).

There’s a cartoon of St Peter turning someone away from heaven, saying “You were a believer, yes. But you skipped the not-being-a-jerk-about-it part”.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Of course the belief in the Christian God is not just a simple “I believe”. You MUST consider yourself a fallen, despicable sinner, who is powerless to earn anything better than eternal torment of incredible magnitude. Don’t forget that one of the mortal sins (maybe even the worst one) is “pride”. What can Christianity offer to a happy, well balanced, proud person who has well-deserved self-esteem? Nothing at all. Listen to what Jesus said in Luke 5:32 (biblehub.com/luke/5-32.htm) and in Mark 2:17 (biblehub.com/mark/2-17.htm).
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You just complained about ‘Christians’ getting you wrong, and now you get Christians wrong.

You just wiped out any “only religions start wars” defense and “only the religious can be zealots” defense. We like soccer in Spain, and we’d cheer you onto the pitch with a chant of “Own-goal-Vera” :D.

In those verses, Jesus is comparing the self-righteous with the underdogs they condemn. Click on the Comment button in those links and you’ll see some commentaries.

“Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification” (Romans 14).
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Other Christians say differently. They use words like: “despicable sinners, who do not deserve heaven, only hell”.
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Those Christians who say such things are very aware of their fallen nature and how easy it is to turn away from the Lord by the “world, the flesh, and the devil.” Due to their prayer lives and reception of the sacraments given by Jesus Christ the Lord they have come to that realization. God didn’t have to create us, He did so out of love, His infinite love. Everyone has the opportunity to pick up their cross and follow Him with the help of His grace.

Those Christians are also aware of the infinite love that God has for all the persons He created. This life is just a stepping stone to the next.
 
Positive? Let me see…

For the last few generations, any new member of my family had no choice as to whether they were brought as a member of a religion and had no choice as to that religion.

My kids are the first to be able to make their own decisions about the matter. And their kids will continue with that opportunity.

I consider that to be a positive.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Why is the non-belief in God (gods) a good thing? You are offering a positive but I need more flesh on the bone.
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I’ll try.

I think atheism a good thing because it’s good to understand reality as it is. And it’s good to understand reality as it is, because that improves my ability to make decisions that lead to the life I want to live.

The corollary ofcourse is that it’s good to be a believer and bad to be a non-believer if God does exist. However, that doesn’t mean I would be a Christian or follow His teachings. How we figure out what’s real and what isn’t is a matter for another topic.
 
Cheiron said:
I’ll try.

I think atheism a good thing because it’s good to understand reality as it is. And it’s good to understand reality as it is, because that improves my ability to make decisions that lead to the life I want to live.
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I agree. But most Christians are also trying to understand reality as it really is- we are trying to deal with the truth, not to peddle nonsense. If Christianity fails to deal with reality as it is, we have failed.

This is why Christians need to listen carefully to atheists.
 
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