Positive Aspects of Atheism?

[Qoeleth]

I know with absolute certainty that “married bachelors” do NOT exist, so all those people who base their life upon observing the commandments ostensibly issued by “married bachelors” DO waste their time.

Well, this calls to mind a quote from one of my favourite nihilist, atheist philosophers, Emile Cioran, “Illusion begets and sustains the world”.

Since, ultimately, for the nihilist/atheist ALL life is a ‘waste of time’, and will be reduced to dust in a few short decades, what does it matter about the precise mythology on which a given person chooses to spend there few decades? Serving God, raising a family, getting rich, achieving piece of mind, writing music, etc.

We are but falling leaves here. Even if there’s only a 1% chance there is a Heaven and Hell- better to live as if there is one.

You cannot know with absolute certainty that God does not exist, any more than I can say that He does. Maybe, as the theologians say, God transcends the categories of existence and non-existence entirely.

 

[Bradski]

Ah, so the Jewish people, the Christian people, the Muslim people. . .not to mention those people like Buddhists, Shinto, Hindu who look upon their founders as a god or gods, and who obey commandments that are common to just about every group of people, ‘theistic’ or not, are just wasting their time.

Because unless their ‘commandments’ were brought about by plain old humans, agreed upon by the majority, changed to suit whatever tastes of the current society demanded, they’re wasting their time.

How does this (as well as many other moral rights) get explained by the atheists? How did humanity come up with this ‘independently’, why is it so universal, what ‘purpose’ does it serve that can be satisfactorily explained, and why has it lasted so long?

We kept what worked. Or rather it was kept for us. Any behaviour that was detrimental to the propagation of the species (us) was removed from the gene pool

That is why a common morality is found in all civilisations at all times. Cheating, stealing, courage, shame, pride…they are all entirely natural and required to form groups, tribes, townships etc.

That’s where morality comes from.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

We kept what worked. Or rather it was kept for us. Any behaviour that was detrimental to the propagation of the species (us) was removed from the gene pool

That is why a common morality is found in all civilisations at all times. Cheating, stealing, courage, shame, pride…they are all entirely natural and required to form groups, tribes, townships etc.

That’s where morality comes from.

Why is there so much cheating, stealing, murder… in our society today then? Why are there so many immoral people? Surely we have the most civilized of all civilizations! We should be entirely moral by now!!!

 

[AdamP88]

We kept what worked. Or rather it was kept for us. Any behaviour that was detrimental to the propagation of the species (us) was removed from the gene pool

That is why a common morality is found in all civilisations at all times. Cheating, stealing, courage, shame, pride…they are all entirely natural and required to form groups, tribes, townships etc.

That’s where morality comes from.

There’s no point to morality if there’s no God though. If there is no afterlife and no god, why does morality make sense? Why can I not cheat, lie, steal etc. as long as it makes me feel good? Sure, it makes other people feel bad, but they’ll just end up rotting in the ground anyway so who cares?

 

[inocente]

There’s no point to morality if there’s no God though. If there is no afterlife and no god, why does morality make sense? Why can I not cheat, lie, steal etc. as long as it makes me feel good? Sure, it makes other people feel bad, but they’ll just end up rotting in the ground anyway so who cares?

Can’t see your argument. Are you saying someone hurts less if they only have a short life than if they live forever? Or that you think Catholics only do right through fear of being punished by God, whereas atheists don’t need that to do what’s right?

 

[inocente]

Why is there so much cheating, stealing, murder… in our society today then? Why are there so many immoral people? Surely we have the most civilized of all civilizations! We should be entirely moral by now!!!

Take stealing for instance. You’d be right if everyone stole, because pretty soon there would be no food left and everyone would starve. But if the majority of people are honest, there’s an advantage to individuals who steal, because they survive without having to work, as long as they don’t steal too much and so threaten the survival of the majority. They are parasites, and parasites survive as long as they don’t kill their host.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

There’s no point to morality if there’s no God though. If there is no afterlife and no god, why does morality make sense? Why can I not cheat, lie, steal etc. as long as it makes me feel good? Sure, it makes other people feel bad, but they’ll just end up rotting in the ground anyway so who cares?

Exactly the argument made by the Marquis de Sade to justify his lunatic immorality.

In his “Dialogue between a Priest and a Dying Man” he has the dying man utter his final words as follows:

“But, preacher, I feel my strength abandon me. Put aside your prejudices, be a man, be human, have no fear and no hope. Abandon your divinities and your creeds which have never served any purpose save to put a sword into the hand of man. The mere names of horrible gods and hideous faiths have caused more blood to be shed than all other wars and scourges on earth. Give up the idea of another world, for there is none. But do not turn your back on the pleasure in this of being happy yourself and of making others happy. It is the only means Nature affords you of enlarging and extending your capacity for life. My dear fellow, sensuality was ever the dearest to me of all my possessions. All my life, I have bowed down before its idols and always wished to end my days in its arms. My time draws near. Six women more beautiful than sunlight are in the room adjoining. I was keeping them all for this moment. Take your share of them and, pillowed on their bosoms, try to forget, as I do, the vain sophisms of superstition and the stupid errors of hypocrisy.”

 

[Abba]

Vera_Ljuba, do you know or are you aware that you have a soul?

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

So in the end this is your list of positives for atheism?

Not having to follow rules and having lots of fun along the way?

I suppose you could add knowing you do good (or at least avoid evil) acts because your want to, not to avoid some future eternal punishment. That you come the “Golden Rule” because you actually believe that to be the best way to live.

Not having to ascent to an organization. While we might all be members of organizations that hold views desperate from our own, but none that I’m member of require me to make myself believe something I do not believe is true.

Also, the OP is an odd question. It presupposes that one might choose a religion (or none) simply for the proclaimed benefits. I think for a lot of us nonbelievers such as myself we simply don’t believe because we didn’t find the whole concept believable.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

We kept what worked. Or rather it was kept for us. Any behaviour that was detrimental to the propagation of the species (us) was removed from the gene pool

That is why a common morality is found in all civilisations at all times. Cheating, stealing, courage, shame, pride…they are all entirely natural and required to form groups, tribes, townships etc.

That’s where morality comes from.

But trying to save a man in danger does NOT ‘propagate the species’. In fact, quite often both people wind up losing their lives.

Again I ask you, what is so great about 'the propagation of the species?" If you don’t believe in God, then human beings are just a fairly sentient being on a 5th rate rock which over a period of time is going to wind up disappearing.

And what again is society? A fluid mass that one is (so far) free to walk away from at any given time. Something that changes its mind about what is good or necessary depending on whatever or whoever can get the most ‘votes’.

No, I’m afraid you haven’t explained this. Have you ever read GK Chesterton?

 

[Abba]

We kept what worked. Or rather it was kept for us. Any behaviour that was detrimental to the propagation of the species (us) was removed from the gene pool

Genes determine behavior?

That is why a common morality is found in all civilisations at all times. Cheating, stealing, courage, shame, pride…they are all entirely natural and required to form groups, tribes, townships etc.

That’s where morality comes from.

http://jamiepappas.typepad.com/.a/6a01053593a874970c0148c866e627970c-pi
Insert buzzer sound here_______________

A “common morality” is found in human beings because God created us in His image and He inscribed the laws in our hearts and even kept a piece of it - which is why you are here. On account of that longing which creates inquietude - you are seeking for that little piece of your heart. (Genesis 1:27 ; Romans 2:15).

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Vera_Ljuba, do you know or are you aware that you have a soul?

I don’t even have the foggiest idea what this “soul” might be. Give me a definition of it (metaphysics) and a method which would show me if this soul exists (epistemology). Without these all we have is an undefined question.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Genes determine behavior?

Not “determine” completely, but play a very strong part in what we are. The problem of “nature” vs. “nurture” is an ongoing debate, and probably cannot be solved. As someone said: “You cannot grow a racehorse from a pig, but you can grow a very fast pig”.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

A “common morality” is found in human beings because God created us in His image and He inscribed the laws in our hearts and even kept a piece of it - which is why you are here.

Yes, and this is a difficult thing for atheists to understand, because they don’t see God in the first place. Which then means they have to ask the question: “Is there a common morality, and where does it come from if not from God?” Or they have to conclude: “There is no such thing as a common morality and everything is permitted … at least everything that you can get away with.” For some atheists, that would be the most positive thing about atheism, I suppose.

 

[Aloysium]

I suppose you could add knowing you do good (or at least avoid evil) acts because your want to, not to avoid some future eternal punishment. That you come the “Golden Rule” because you actually believe that to be the best way to live.

Not having to ascent to an organization. While we might all be members of organizations that hold views desperate from our own, but none that I’m member of require me to make myself believe something I do not believe is true.

Also, the OP is an odd question. It presupposes that one might choose a religion (or none) simply for the proclaimed benefits. I think for a lot of us nonbelievers such as myself we simply don’t believe because we didn’t find the whole concept believable.

God is goodness itself. If an atheist believes there is no God, an important contribution, a positive aspect would be to dilineate the nature of goodness and on what it would be grounded.
If goodness is subjective, merely a personal opinion, morality boils down to doing what you want.
Alternatively, if morality exists as an objective reality, different from but as real as matter, to not do good would have consequences.
Pretty much everybody has a sense of karma/justice.
If the Golden Rule is true, and all religions hold it to be so, it points to a goodness which is objectively better than doing the opposite.
If love is just a feeling, you can hold off, if you desire; the sensation will pass.

It isn’t news that the worldly appearance of the church for some, masks the reality of its being the body of Christ.

People say what they think.
But, when we pray or contemplate the word of God, we speak the truth, that our thoughts will follow.
Thereby our understanding, knowledge and wisdom increases.
Unless you pray, contemplate Holy writings and thought, and do good works, you cannot grow the seeds of faith. The weeds of cynicism, doubt, and mundane anxieties, the dryness of the secular world and the lack of spiritual nourishment that comes with giving of ourselves, all will prevent their growth and blosoming.

All religions provide a way to understand the context of our existence; who we are, why we are, what is good and what is bad, they address the sickness that exists within the human condition and offer a cure. Atheism’s answer is that we are a transient part of nature, free to do what we want because what is good is self-expression. With everything of this world ultimately being swallowed by oblivion, YOLO!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Not “determine” completely, but play a very strong part in what we are. The problem of “nature” vs. “nurture” is an ongoing debate, and probably cannot be solved. As someone said: “You cannot grow a racehorse from a pig, but you can grow a very fast pig”.

Ah but there you are wrong, Mr. Materialist (I assume you do believe in Evolution). Evolutionists believe that there is a link from Species to Species, though there is no evidence of it. So in the evolutionist’s mind a pig may well become a racehorse or vice versa.

 

[Abba]

My the peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. And, May the Holy Spirit go to you and enlighten you.

I don’t even have the foggiest idea what this “soul” might be.

Oh, boy.



You took off on an intellectual journey but, you missed some things along the way and now you are lost. If you do not realize right now that you are lost, what can help you to recognize it is that itch you feel that you cannot scratch. Focus on that longing, that unidentifiable longing that’s deep inside of you and at times is stronger than others. Don’t ignore it, try to identify it. Why? What does it mean? What is this? I pray someday, you come to know it as your little proof of God’s immense love for you. It’s God’s way of calling you. “Our hearts are restless until they rest in you” Saint Augustine.

Give me a definition of it (metaphysics) and a method which would show me if this soul exists (epistemology). Without these, all we have is an undefined question.

I leave these intellectual discussions to tonyrey et al. But, I will play a little bit with you, with the hope that it will help you to find God. Otherwise, I don’t have time to play intellectual games. I hope you are serious when you say you would really want to know if He exists. I don’t have a Ph.D. on this stuff so I let other people cover it, but, I’ll try a little.

Now, which is your preferred epistemological method or system? What requirements do you have to accept a metaphysical description of something? Do you prefer the universal to the particular? Are you a coherentist or a foundationalist or a little bit of both or it depends or something else? Do you have to see it to believe it (Aristotle Posterior Analytics & De Anima)? What works for you?

P.s. In your search for God, you do not want to make mistakes and miss the boat. You can go around and around for years within your intellectualism not acknowledging when you have found something that will help you. So, when you get into these little intellectual discussions take time to contemplate and digest the new information. Buy a little scale and start putting pebbles on it. One side is that He does not exist and the other is that He does.

 

[PraiseChrist]

Can you think of any positive aspects of atheism?

Let’s make a list.

Technically, assuming that atheism is true, then:

1. There would be no objective good or evil, and no reason to follow anything that one would say is good. Goodness under atheism doesn’t have a reference point and source, so all goodness would simply be our opinion.
2. If there were no objective good or evil, then there cannot be something that is objectively positive, since that which is positive is merely relative to what one thinks is good
3. There would be no objectively positive thing ever in atheism.
4. If there’s no objectively positive thing in atheism, then if you want something, and have it as a result of your atheism, then that would be a “positive” aspect.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

God is goodness itself. If an atheist believes there is no God, an important contribution, a positive aspect would be to dilineate the nature of goodness and on what it would be grounded.
If goodness is subjective, merely a personal opinion, morality boils down to doing what you want.

But God is subjective as interpreted by varying people and various denominations.

Alternatively, if morality exists as an objective reality, different from but as real as matter, to not do good would have consequences.
Pretty much everybody has a sense of karma/justice.
If the Golden Rule is true, and all religions hold it to be so, it points to a goodness which is objectively better than doing the opposite.

I do not know if the Golden Rule is true. I could very possibly be wrong, but that is ok. Likewise, to not do good may not always have consequences. There is a level of uncertainty and lack of fairness that is part of our existence. But morality as followed by an individual is typically subjective as they will choose the parameters which may or may not line up with others, even of the same faith. For example, views of contraception across Christianity.

People say what they think.
But, when we pray or contemplate the word of God, we speak the truth, that our thoughts will follow.
Thereby our understanding, knowledge and wisdom increases.
Unless you pray, contemplate Holy writings and thought, and do good works, you cannot grow the seeds of faith. The weeds of cynicism, doubt, and mundane anxieties, the dryness of the secular world and the lack of spiritual nourishment that comes with giving of ourselves, all will prevent their growth and blosoming.

I once believed. I do not anymore. I have tried the above several times to no avail.

All religions provide a way to understand the context of our existence; who we are, why we are, what is good and what is bad, they address the sickness that exists within the human condition and offer a cure. Atheism’s answer is that we are a transient part of nature, free to do what we want because what is good is self-expression. With everything of this world ultimately being swallowed by oblivion, YOLO!

To me atheism provides virtual no answers to anything. It frees me up to say “I don’t know. Maybe these things are unknowable?” It is the acceptance that I do not need an external source for the answer or that no answer is certain on this side of existence (if there is even another side).

 

[CHRISTINE77]

But God is subjective as interpreted by varying people and various denominations.

I do not know if the Golden Rule is true. I could very possibly be wrong, but that is ok. Likewise, to not do good may not always have consequences. There is a level of uncertainty and lack of fairness that is part of our existence. But morality as followed by an individual is typically subjective as they will choose the parameters which may or may not line up with others, even of the same faith. For example, views of contraception across Christianity.

I once believed. I do not anymore. I have tried the above several times to no avail.

To me atheism provides virtual no answers to anything. It frees me up to say “I don’t know. Maybe these things are unknowable?” It is the acceptance that I do not need an external source for the answer or that no answer is certain on this side of existence (if there is even another side).

How is that freeing to you? It sounds like it leaves you in deep doubt and insecurity.