Positive Aspects of Atheism?

[Vera_Ljuba]

I think some atheists offer useful insights. But only those of a nihilist persuasion.

Cioran and Schopenhaur, for example, offer in their philosophy a clear insight that “Without God, all is nothing, a tale told by an idiot”. This is a bold and somewhat heroic position. I think we should admire those atheists, who, for whatever reason haven’t made ‘the leap of faith’, but still can look at this world without any illusions, look into the depths of reality- and say: “Vanitas vanitatum. Omnis est nihil.”

This is helpful for society- recognising the nothingness of this world, the futility of earthly life, and the vanity of society- for it can lead people to God.

But most atheists need to honest. Proper, nihilistic atheists, actually help religion, by showing that it’s either God, or NOTHING…That the only life is the Eternal Life, the life hidden in Christ…

It’s often the nihilist atheists who most boldly proclaim us to be “Poor banished children of Eve, mourning and sighing in this valley of tears.”

And this is the only real atheism. Other ‘atheists’ (secular humanists, those who believe happiness through scientific progress, etc.), are merely worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales…

If I would create a post composed of such derogatory remarks, the moderators would slap me down for not being “charitable”. Nihilism has nothing to do with atheism.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

How could I “cooperate” with him, if he hides his face beyond the clouds, if he does NOT communicate with me, if he does NOT explain why he allows horrible atrocities to happen? What is the adage? “By their fruits you shall know them”. The world does NOT look like as if there would be a loving, caring God in charge.

So as an atheist what you prefer is an indifferent universe that beats you down and kills you forever?

Doesn’t look like you have a “loving, caring universe in charge.”

How is that positive?

 

[pianistclare]

That was my thought too.

• like a thousand.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Maybe not a positive aspect of atheism as a belief or non-belief but atheists probably don’t blame god when something goes wrong in their life or a natural disaster happens or when they’ve done something wrong. I would view this as a positive.

exactly. they accept responsibility for their actions - the mature atheists anyway who are trying to be productive members of society.
I am sure there are atheists who cannot be accountable for their actions. I guess that is a choice we all make - atheists, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

So as an atheist what you prefer is an indifferent universe that beats you down and kills you forever?

Doesn’t look like you have a “loving, caring universe in charge.”

How is that positive?

My preference has nothing to do with reality. It is always positive to face reality. The universe does not care about us, and no one asserts that it does… God supposedly cares about us, but there is NO indication that he does. Of course, if I would be wrong, and if God would all of a sudden display his “love” for us in some appreciable manner, I would be HAPPY to change my mind. That is the difference between us. You are surrounded with the evidence of a non-caring God, and you keep on clinging to your belief - despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[psalm90]

When the subject comes up, Fr. Mitch Pacwa points out that tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism. Under atheism, all rights come from the state, like Hitler and Stalin practiced. Their mad ambitions drove them to attempt to stamp out religion, except their own secular version of religion.

Today, most of the suffering in the world comes from those who reject religion, the Triune God and Jesus Christ, in particular.

Strictly speaking, in atheism, there can be no right or wrong, no evil, just opinions. But, natural law tells us that there is evil, right and wrong. Atheism states absolutely that there are no absolutes. It’s self-contradicting from the outset.

 

[Cheiron]

–you give and love and help others because you feel compassion, not because someone says you should it.

–you love the people you love, and don’t have to worry if they are the same religion as you else your family will banish or kill you. Religion does not divide you from others.

–you understand that you have the power to make changes in your life, and don’t wait for an unseen entity to do it for you.

–you take responsibility for what goes wrong and don’t blame it on “the devil” trying to tempt or sway you.

–you enjoy every moment of this life today, and not think that the best part will begin after you die.

–you don’t start a war or kill people because they are not the same religion as you.

–you are open to new, better ideas and beliefs if they present themselves…not locked into those that only fit a specific religion.

–you don’t worry that loved ones might live in eternal hell just because they didn’t get those drops of water put on their forehead.

–you don’t put your faith and trust in religious leaders and later find out, they are dishonest, harmful people.

–you don’t torture yourself for your entire life about something in your nature that scripture, written thousands of years ago before psychology and biology had advanced, did not understand then and condemned.

–your learn to look at the world with healthy skeptism in all areas, and not believe something just because you are told it is true.

–you are not afraid to ask questions and then say “I disagree” or “that makes no sense to me,” – when you do, and when it doesn’t.

…those are just a few.

.

What religion are you describing? I know it’s not mine.

What? But surely the Catholic Church

• preaches that you should give to the poor because Jesus did it,
• was responsible for dividing families, like the wars of the reformation in the 16th and 17th century,
• teaches you can pray for miraculous healings, even though you can take medication yourself
• has exorcists that blame bad behaviour on the devil,
• teaches a better existence with God awaits (some of) us after we die,
• has started wars such as the wars of the reformation or the crusades
• is not open to new ideas, because Catholics have killed protestants and scientists because of their ideas - and banned books.
• has made people sick with worry about their loved ones due to those people not being baptised (don’t you dare deny it, I know these people).
• has lied about important theological issues, such as the existence of limbo or has ascribed miracles to people who could obviously not have performed them. Such as the Belgian saint Idesbald, whose bones were dug up and proved to be a fake last year.
• has condemned homosexuality
• has told people that there is no salvation outside the Church,
• discouraged questions (see examples above).

If you don’t know this you are, I’m sorry to say, incredibly ignorant of the history of your Church.

 

[Cheiron]

I feel a bit bad for Charlemagne III. He creates a thread that seriously and genuinely tries to build bridges and among a few positive responses, we also find this:

No need for education in areas such as math, history, or ethics since there is no truth beyond what you personally define; every thing else is irrelevant.

Some atheists are intolerant of theists. Some atheists, like communists persecute religious. Just look at communism. I know of a couple who will be going to China, and they will need to speak in code out of fear of reprisals. Some atheistic regimes have desecrated churches, killed religious. Take Nazi Germany. I saw a true case of where these atheistic Germans crucified a man just because he was a priest. Other priests were imprisoned in concentration camps along with the Jews, starved, denied water, etc.

To say that all atheists are tolerant of religion and never force their atheism on others isn’t true. Some atheists can, and do, force their position on others…China sometimes uses torture for their priests, and it’s not the only atheist country to do that.

Watch, “God is Not Dead”, and it’s an example of a teacher who is an atheist who is antitheism. Although it might be fictious, there are many real cases where atheists look down upon believers.

You describe atheism as if it was perfect, when it also has its faults.

I think some atheists offer useful insights. But only those of a nihilist persuasion.

Cioran and Schopenhaur, for example, offer in their philosophy a clear insight that “Without God, all is nothing, a tale told by an idiot”. This is a bold and somewhat heroic position. I think we should admire those atheists, who, for whatever reason haven’t made ‘the leap of faith’, but still can look at this world without any illusions, look into the depths of reality- and say: “Vanitas vanitatum. Omnis est nihil.”

This is helpful for society- recognising the nothingness of this world, the futility of earthly life, and the vanity of society- for it can lead people to God.

But most atheists need to honest. Proper, nihilistic atheists, actually help religion, by showing that it’s either God, or NOTHING…That the only life is the Eternal Life, the life hidden in Christ…

It’s often the nihilist atheists who most boldly proclaim us to be “Poor banished children of Eve, mourning and sighing in this valley of tears.”

And this is the only real atheism. Other ‘atheists’ (secular humanists, those who believe happiness through scientific progress, etc.), are merely worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales…

When the subject comes up, Fr. Mitch Pacwa points out that tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism. Under atheism, all rights come from the state, like Hitler and Stalin practiced. Their mad ambitions drove them to attempt to stamp out religion, except their own secular version of religion.

Today, most of the suffering in the world comes from those who reject religion, the Triune God and Jesus Christ, in particular.

Strictly speaking, in atheism, there can be no right or wrong, no evil, just opinions. But, natural law tells us that there is evil, right and wrong. Atheism states absolutely that there are no absolutes. It’s self-contradicting from the outset.

Positive aspects of atheism: “worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales”, “Nazi’s”, “No right or wrong, just opinions”, “tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism.”

I guess the Forum rules about being charitable don’t apply to Catholics.

 

[Bonnie]

What? But surely the Catholic Church

• preaches that you should give to the poor because Jesus did it,
• was responsible for dividing families, like the wars of the reformation in the 16th and 17th century,
• teaches you can pray for miraculous healings, even though you can take medication yourself
• has exorcists that blame bad behaviour on the devil,
• teaches a better existence with God awaits (some of) us after we die,
• has started wars such as the wars of the reformation or the crusades
• is not open to new ideas, because Catholics have killed protestants and scientists because of their ideas - and banned books.
• has made people sick with worry about their loved ones due to those people not being baptised (don’t you dare deny it, I know these people).
• has lied about important theological issues, such as the existence of limbo or has ascribed miracles to people who could obviously not have performed them. Such as the Belgian saint Idesbald, whose bones were dug up and proved to be a fake last year.
• has condemned homosexuality
• has told people that there is no salvation outside the Church,
• discouraged questions (see examples above).

If you don’t know this you are, I’m sorry to say, incredibly ignorant of the history of your Church.

No - not ignorant of history. But those snippets of truth you list are just that - snippets - not the whole truth. You’re seeing just a small corner of the painting, not the whole picture. I have neither the time or inclination to teach you - & I doubt you want to be taught. So keep your prejudices - you seem to enjoy them.

 

[Qoeleth]

If I would create a post composed of such derogatory remarks, the moderators would slap me down for not being “charitable”. Nihilism has nothing to do with atheism.

How is that uncharitable? I feel a great sympathy for the atheist writers I mention (Cioran, Schopehauer).

No- there are in fact a lot of nihilistic atheists also feel sympathy for Christian spirituality. Take the case of people like Husymans and Verlaine.

What I am saying, there is either God- or nothing matters, nothing has value. Certain people chose God, other (tragically perhaps) chose Nothing.

But there is no sustainable alternative.

 

[Qoeleth]

I feel a bit bad for Charlemagne III. He creates a thread that seriously and genuinely tries to build bridges and among a few positive responses, we also find this:

Positive aspects of atheism: “worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales”, “Nazi’s”, “No right or wrong, just opinions”, “tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism.”

I guess the Forum rules about being charitable don’t apply to Catholics.

I didn’t say ALL atheists are believer in fairer tales. Many are quite free of delusion (like Nietzsche, Schopenahuer, Shelley), etc., and admirable, to the extent that they see the fundamental emptiness of purely temporal things.

The atheists who believe that, apart from God, there is some real source of meaning and happiness, are believers in a fairy tale- and also ‘worshippers of stupid idols’ (i.e. the possibility of earthly life leading to real happiness). I am not saying those who fall victims to such mistakes are stupid. I believe many ‘secular humanists’ are trying to fill the gap left by God, with a kind of ‘idol’ (an ideal of humanity).

This is my interpretation. I have no uncharitable intention.

The connection between nihilist atheism (the most heroic and honest form of atheism) and Christianity is well reflected in the poem ‘The Bad Monk’ by Baudelaire (another atheist whose work Christians often find inspiring):

*The ancient cloisters on their lofty walls
  Had holy Truth in painted frescoes shown,
And, seeing these, the pious in those halls
  Felt their cold, lone austereness less alone.

At that time when Christ's seed flowered all around,
  More than one monk, forgotten in his hour,
Taking for studio the burial-ground,
  Glorified Death with simple faith and power.

And my soul is a sepulchre where I,
Ill cenobite, have spent eternity:
  On the vile cloister walls no pictures rise.

O when may I cast off this weariness,
And make the pageant of my old distress
  For these hands labour, pleasure for these eyes?*

Yes, true atheism leads to nihilism. And to those who walk that path, I applaud their courage and honesty, maybe even a form of sanctity. Because it is only in the utter darkness that the True Light is found. All the candles of earthly delusion must be extinguished before God’s totality is clear- God, the infinite, absolute, the Nothing which is Everything

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

How is that uncharitable? I feel a great sympathy for the atheist writers I mention (Cioran, Schopehauer).

No- there are in fact a lot of nihilistic atheists also feel sympathy for Christian spirituality. Take the case of people like Husymans and Verlaine.

The problem is that you take a few (a handful) of atheistic philosophers, who exhibit some nihilistic views, and then you project their views unto “atheism” in toto. Atheism has nothing to do with “nihilism”. If I would present a few Catholics who performed very despicable child molestation actions, and I would contend that they are a fair representation of Catholics, you would be - rightfully - outraged. So why do you generalize the views of some atheists’ to be representative of ALL atheists? Don’t you see the problem there?

What I am saying, there is either God- or nothing matters, nothing has value. Certain people chose God, other (tragically perhaps) chose Nothing.

And you are wrong. If there is no God, it does not follow that “nothing matters”. The value of life is itself, not some possible continuation in some afterlife. For atheists life is valuable - but DEATH is not. For Christians, life is something to be endured, because it is the “afterlife” is what matters.

But there is no sustainable alternative.

No need for one. If you would be able to present some actual evidence for the existence on this “loving and caring God”, I will be most happy to accept it. I am not “married” to atheism. But when I look at the universe, I see no sign of a “loving and caring God”. I don’t see a sign of a hostile and malevolent God either. I see no sign of a God at all.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Can you think of any positive aspects of atheism?

Let’s make a list.

progress, free-thinking, adventurous. Looking back in history, sometimes the people who rebelled against the church brought about change. they dared to expand what humans could do. I think I like that they are not afraid to question religion. Sometimes I think being devoutly religious can impair critical thinking, everything is the Lord’s plan and how dare you question or do things your own way.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

The problem is that you take a few (a handful) of atheistic philosophers, who exhibit some nihilistic views, and then you project their views unto “atheism” in toto. Atheism has nothing to do with “nihilism”. If I would present a few Catholics who performed very despicable child molestation actions, and I would contend that they are a fair representation of Catholics, you would be - rightfully - outraged. So why do you generalize the views of some atheists’ to be representative of ALL atheists? Don’t you see the problem there?

And you are wrong. If there is no God, it does not follow that “nothing matters”. The value of life is itself, not some possible continuation in some afterlife. For atheists life is valuable - but DEATH is not. For Christians, life is something to be endured, because it is the “afterlife” is what matters.

No need for one. If you would be able to present some actual evidence for the existence on this “loving and caring God”, I will be most happy to accept it. I am not “married” to atheism. But when I look at the universe, I see no sign of a “loving and caring God”. I don’t see a sign of a hostile and malevolent God either. I see no sign of a God at all.

VERY TRUE. I like how atheist value this life. I feel like they have a more active role in their life because they believe this is all there is. Sometimes I believe people who are religious are trapped in bad situations because they are afraid of going against their church/religion. There are plenty of women who stay with abusive spouses when because divorce is an abomination or refuse to accept medical attention.

 

[Qoeleth]

The problem is that you take a few (a handful) of atheistic philosophers, who exhibit some nihilistic views, and then you project their views unto “atheism” in toto. Atheism has nothing to do with “nihilism”. If I would present a few Catholics who performed very despicable child molestation actions, and I would contend that they are a fair representation of Catholics, you would be - rightfully - outraged. So why do you generalize the views of some atheists’ to be representative of ALL atheists? Don’t you see the problem there?

And you are wrong. If there is no God, it does not follow that “nothing matters”. The value of life is itself, not some possible continuation in some afterlife. For atheists life is valuable - but DEATH is not. For Christians, life is something to be endured, because it is the “afterlife” is what matters.

No need for one. If you would be able to present some actual evidence for the existence on this “loving and caring God”, I will be most happy to accept it. I am not “married” to atheism. But when I look at the universe, I see no sign of a “loving and caring God”. I don’t see a sign of a hostile and malevolent God either. I see no sign of a God at all.

I’m not saying all atheists are nihilists. There are different kinds of atheists- of which one kind is the nihilist kind. I find something to admired in nihilistic atheists, for having courage and honesty to face the world as they find it, and also for reminding Christians (and others) not to be too quick to sugar-coat reality.

The strongest evidence of the love of God is the Incarnation and death of Christ. Other than that, no- I agree there is not much clear evidence in the day to day working of life. Some people see it, but that’s only by the grace of God.

So you can look out your window, and see a godless universe. I can also do that, all too easily. Perhaps you are strong enough to accept what you see, and make the best of it. But I am not. That is why I am a Christian.

 

[Dorothy]

Well, I used to be a Christian, but I never felt “fallen”. I never considered myself a despicable sinner, who is worthless in the eyes of God.

One of the most important factor in my “falling away” from religion was the concept that “God loves us infinitely(???)”. You see, a “love” which does not manifest itself in actions is just an empty word. And God does not feed the hungry, does not heal the sick, does not protect the weak, does not comfort the sad… there is absolutely no sign that God cares about us at all. Pointing to the “cross” is useless. The downtrodden need help NOW, not after they die.

How could I “cooperate” with him, if he hides his face beyond the clouds, if he does NOT communicate with me, if he does NOT explain why he allows horrible atrocities to happen? What is the adage? “By their fruits you shall know them”. The world does NOT look like as if there would be a loving, caring God in charge.

We are not worthless in the eyes of the Lord. I feel fallen when I become aware that I need renewal in prayer and sacraments frequently. “Fallen” means I have a tendency to sin, be selfish, and complain in the midst of sufferings, etc. My nature is wounded. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the answer.

It is good to meditate on the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ who chose to manifest His love to us that way. By His grace we are His eyes, His hands, His feet, etc. We can become other Christs with the grace He purchased for us. He could not have done any more.

His face is not hidden in Sacred Scripture. The Lord can be “in charge” if we obey Him. Martyrs had His Peace in the face of their tormenters. They now live with Him forever.

Focusing on all the good things of the Lord and what He gave us is the answer.

The lives of the saints are inspiring and encouraging.

I pray that you become aware of His Love for you.

Alleluia…He is Risen and He loves us!

 

[Dorothy]

VERY TRUE. I like how atheist value this life. I feel like they have a more active role in their life because they believe this is all there is. Sometimes I believe people who are religious are trapped in bad situations because they are afraid of going against their church/religion. There are plenty of women who stay with abusive spouses when because divorce is an abomination or refuse to accept medical attention.

The directives of the Church do not say that women should stay with an abusive husband. Such people are trapped in fear and misunderstanding. There are many who can help them if they seek help. They need to talk to their pastors, or go to someone with faith and clear understanding to help them.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

So you can look out your window, and see a godless universe. I can also do that, all too easily. Perhaps you are strong enough to accept what you see, and make the best of it. But I am not. That is why I am a Christian.

In that case all I can say that I wish the very best for you. I hope you will never lose your faith.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

We are not worthless in the eyes of the Lord.

Other Christians say differently. They use words like: “despicable sinners, who do not deserve heaven, only hell”.

 

[pianistclare]

I feel a bit bad for Charlemagne III. He creates a thread that seriously and genuinely tries to build bridges and among a few positive responses, we also find this:

Positive aspects of atheism: “worshippers of stupid idols, believers in children’s fairy tales”, “Nazi’s”, “No right or wrong, just opinions”, “tens of millions of people died in the 20th century under atheism.”

I guess the Forum rules about being charitable don’t apply to Catholics.

I kind of feel that way too. This thread has really gone sour.