Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

[Shike]

Well, for one, I do speak truth on that statement. He did speak opinoins. Now if they believe he is some kind of Prophet, and he does speak truth without factual info, then by all means, call my statement false.

Their is no way I can debate the OP. He posts opinoins, and the only thing I could reply to is Opinoins, and I am not here for opinoins. (I am mis-spelling opinoin I think, but sorry)

I still stand by my statement that there is more of an argument there than one might think. The OP is a list of conditions. Some groups fall out that list. There is room to argue who falls out/in that list and if the criterion is a correct assessment of either scripture or tradition or the world or something.

With arguments you assume what might be opinions and see where you can argue from there to reject or prove the argument.

There has been at least a little interesting discussion already. But don’t let me force you to post.

peace,
Michael

 

[ChristianKnight]

I still stand by my statement that there is more of an argument there than one might think. The OP is a list of conditions. Some groups fall out that list. There is room to argue who falls out/in that list and if the criterion is a correct assessment of either scripture or tradition or the world or something.

With arguments you assume what might be opinions and see where you can argue from there to reject or prove the argument.

There has been at least a little interesting discussion already. But don’t let me force you to post.

peace,
Michael

But arguing over someone’s opinoins really isn’t much of an argument, especially since the OP stated a statement of his opinoins and was, I think, challenging anyone who believed different.

 

[Shai22]

To Chester

Where does God say that people own the Truth within their hearts?

The Last Covenant that GOD made, and Jesus sealed with his death.

Jeremiah 31:33 I will put my law within them, I will write it on their hearts, I will be their GOD and they will be my people.

1Corinthians 11:25 This cup of GOD’S new covenant sealed with my blood whenever you drink it do is in memory of me.

[another word for blood is life]

2Corinthian 3:3 It is clear that Christ himself wrote this letter and sent it to us. It is written not with ink but with the Spirit of the Living GOD, and not on stone tablets but on human hearts.

 

[O.S.Luke]

To debate with me is to debate with Christ.

I didn’t know that you and Christ were the same person! I’ll be!!!

What an arrogant claim!!! That might even be a heretical claim. You better check your Catechism, OTCA. I might go back to calling you One FALSE Catholic Apostle.

But you are a Protestant. Anyone against the Catholic church but not for it, is a Protestant. You are P-r-o-t-e-s-ting the Catholic church…you don’t even realize it.

So, let’s see… that’s means the Greek Orthodox, the Russian Orthodox, and the Eastern Orthodox are Protestant too? And the Coptic Church is Protestant?

Hmmmm. I don’t think so.

Try again, OTCA.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

To Chester

Where does God say that people own the Truth within their hearts?

The Last Covenant that GOD made, and Jesus sealed with his death.

Jeremiah 31:33 I will put my law within them, I will write it on their hearts, I will be their GOD and they will be my people.

1Corinthians 11:25 This cup of GOD’S new covenant sealed with my blood whenever you drink it do is in memory of me.

[another word for blood is life]

2Corinthian 3:3 It is clear that Christ himself wrote this letter and sent it to us. It is written not with ink but with the Spirit of the Living GOD, and not on stone tablets but on human hearts.

No one can argue with logic like that.

 

[joshua_b]

Thank you Joshua, I appreciate your response.

I don’t study churches or religion. I learn from GOD and what the scripture means in His eyes. The problem with religion and churches is that there are to many divisions within them, which causes confusion with the people, then they debate and argue over things that shouldn’t be debated or argued.

There is a scripture that says, As for me and my family I will obey all of GOD’S laws and commands. It’s in the old testament, I’m sorry that I can’t find it for you.

Give the GLORY back to GOD always.

That is most certainly a healthy attitude to have. The question that needs to be answered however, is, how did God intend to give His laws to the people of His New Covenant ? Some would say that the intention of Jesus had always been that His followers receive Truth through the Church that He established on earth, the same Church that was given the gift of the Holy Spirit, the same Church that was promised to be led into ALL TRUTH, the same Church that was given the power to bind and loose, the same Church that was given the keys to the Kingdom, the same Church that was given the power to forgive and retain sins, the same Church that was told to Baptize all nations, and the same Church that Scripture tells us very plainly is the “pillar and foundation of ALL Truth”.

That being said, I want to present you with a simple yes or no question. I am not asking you to declare whether or not my assertions are true, or debate the status of the Catholic Church or Scripture. My question is simply thus…If Jesus founded a visible Church here on earth with the intention that it would be through that Church that His people would receive His laws directly from the Holy Spirit, would a Christian be obligated to be a member of this Church ?

 

[happilycatholic]

If the Catholic Church is not Christ’s Church, which denomination is it? Which faith is it? Which group of individuals all practicing faith individually is it? Where is it?

Why does Faith have to be a denomination. In Matthew 12:48-50
Jesus says that anyone who does as my Father says is my mother, and brother, he certainly didn’t say they were catholics. This scripture alone says that anyone who is in complete obedience to the Father, Jesus claims to be his family.

Hi Shai!

That’s my point. Faith is not a denomination. Catholicism is not a denomination. Jesus didn’t need to say that whomsoever does as my Father says is catholic. Jesus in including those that do God’s will. Those that do God’s will are part of the Body of Christ, Jesus’ church universal. Hence the Catholic Church

God told Jeremiah in 31:33-34 The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this. I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their GOD, and they will be my people. 34 None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the LORD because all will know me, form the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the LORD have spoken.

Jesus sealed this covenant with his blood. 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is GOD’S new covenant sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it do so in memory of me.

As we know blood also means life, and drink it, means spiritual food, also known as TRUTH aka Scriptures.

2 Corinthians 3:3 IT is clear that Christ himself wrote this letter and sent it to us. It is written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the Living GOD and not on stone tablets but on human hearts.

GOD placed the responsibility in the individuals, removing it from their priests, pastors, rabbi’s. Faith is not in the church or the vatican, or they synagogue or temple, it is within you.

What you do if your church were closed, is your faith strong enough to sustain you?

None of these verses excludes the need to be part of Christ’s Body of believers. My Church will never be “closed”. My church is not a location that can be locked and closed. Jesus promised the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church.

shai22

 

[happilycatholic]

That doesn’t prove that the RCC is the true church, that just proves you believe that, which I believe is a opinoin, and I like people with opinoins.

Some things are true whether you believe them or not

 

[wellington]

Jesus said Peter is the Rock. He didn’t say you just said “rock”, he said you ARE Rock. Peter = Rock. So Jesus said, “Upon Peter I will build my Church”.

Peter understood his role as the Rock, because we can see in the Acts of the Apostles, the apostles always go to Peter for the last word whenever there’s an argument or disagreement.

Matthew 16:18 indeed mentioned the name PETER and ROCK. But if we are to go back to early greek manuscripts, petra-πέτρα", rock in Greek, is used, while the name PETER is in its masculine form “petros” which means small stone. Thus, Jesus is not referring to Peter when he mentioned the term “rock”.

Now, if the catholic church is said to be laid upon Peter, then, it is not the true Church, for the Church to be true, it should be founded upon Jesus Christ himself who is the ROCK upon which the true church is built.

May the light of truth shine upon us all. God bless!

 

[wellington]

And i humbly beg to disagree with the statement " Peter understood his role as the Rock, because we can see in the Acts of the Apostles, the apostles always go to Peter for the last word whenever there’s an argument or disagreement."

We can find proof in the bible that says otherwise. It is apostle James who issued the final statement to resolve the disagreement about the issue on circumsition to the gentiles.

Thanks.

 

[flaco40]

I would just like to ask, If Sola Scriptura is true, why doesn’t the Bible say that it is true ? You would expect the only authority to point out that it was the only authority wouldn’t you?

 

[flaco40]

I’m sorry but I just don’t understand the practice of sola scriptura? I mean you take a book that was assembled by a Church that has been around for three hundred years ( granted some of the books within the book had been around much longer than that. But the Church decided what went in and what went out.) and then you give the book authority but not the Church? I don’t get it.

 

[flaco40]

Where did everybody go? Did I do something wrong?

 

[wellington]

I’m sorry but I just don’t understand the practice of sola scriptura? I mean you take a book that was assembled by a Church that has been around for three hundred years ( granted some of the books within the book had been around much longer than that. But the Church decided what went in and what went out.) and then you give the book authority but not the Church? I don’t get it.

If the Church assembled the “book”, then there is nothing wrong referring to that “book” because it will further prove that the Church indeed is the true one. However, if the Church is doing one thing, and the scripture is teaching another thing in direct opposite of the former, then something is wrong.

The truth shall set us free! God bless!

 

[O.S.Luke]

Where did everybody go? Did I do something wrong?

Some folks have to work on Sunday mornings.

 

[Shai22]

To Joshua b

That is most certainly a healthy attitude to have. The question that needs to be answered however, is, how did God intend to give His laws to the people of His New Covenant ? Some would say that the intention of Jesus had always been that His followers receive Truth through the Church that He established on earth, the same Church that was given the gift of the Holy Spirit, the same Church that was promised to be led into ALL TRUTH, the same Church that was given the power to bind and loose, the same Church that was given the keys to the Kingdom, the same Church that was given the power to forgive and retain sins, the same Church that was told to Baptize all nations, and the same Church that Scripture tells us very plainly is the “pillar and foundation of ALL Truth”.

That being said, I want to present you with a simple yes or no question. I am not asking you to declare whether or not my assertions are true, or debate the status of the Catholic Church or Scripture. My question is simply thus…If Jesus founded a visible Church here on earth with the intention that it would be through that Church that His people would receive His laws directly from the Holy Spirit, would a Christian be obligated to be a member of this Church ?

My Answer

In order to understand the new testament one should also understand the old testament. In the OT there was no church, it was GOD and HIS prophets, or messengers who gave the Laws and Commands to the people. Guiding them to do what is right and just. Of course they had other responsibilities as well. By studying the OT, you will learn about the stubbornness and idolatry of the people at that time. But you will also learn that as long as the people had a guide [prophet or messenger] they did well, lived in complete obedience but once that guide died, they returned to their usual pagan practices. There has not been a Prophet or Messenger since Jesus died. People of today are no different, than the people of biblical times.

The new testament is a repeat of the Teachings GOD gave to HIS people in the OT.
Jesus taught Old Things a new way. Matthew 5:17 Do not think I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true. This means ALL the Laws and teachings, not just some of them.

The answer to you question is not that simple, because you begin with doubt using IF. However, I understand what you asking and the question is YES. The physical church however is not a structured building, it is within your heart, keeping harmony with GOD’S last covenant Jeremiah 31:33; 1Corinthians 11:25 and 2 Corinthians 3:5.

“obligatory” is not the right word Joshua, GOD gave us the gift of “free will”, we “choose” to seek and love HIM, or we don’t. No one is obligated.

I’m not against the Catholic church, I don’t know why people here think I am. I am here sharing truths.

 

[Shai22]

To Happily Catholic

That’s my point. Faith is not a denomination. Catholicism is not a denomination. Jesus didn’t need to say that whomsoever does as my Father says is catholic. Jesus in including those that do God’s will. Those that do God’s will are part of the Body of Christ, Jesus’ church universal. Hence the Catholic Church

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD HAPPILY BY SAYING THOSE THAT DO GOD’S WILL. But the Catholic church is not the only ones there are millions who do GOD’S will that is not catholic.

When one learns the TRUTH from GOD, one is opened to see the TRUTH in all who speak it and live it, no matter who they are.
In the book of Exodus, GOD told Moses that HE would accept the “foreigners” that lived with them as long as they lived by the same Laws and commands. [foreigners were people of different faith, than the Israelites]

GOOD for you Happily that you recognize that the church is within you, instead of being a structural building, and that it will never close.

 

[wellington]

Matthew 16:18 indeed mentioned the name PETER and ROCK. But if we are to go back to early greek manuscripts, petra-πέτρα", rock in Greek, is used, while the name PETER is in its masculine form “petros” which means small stone. Thus, Jesus is not referring to Peter when he mentioned the term “rock”.

Now, if the catholic church is said to be laid upon Peter, then, it is not the true Church, for the Church to be true, it should be founded upon Jesus Christ himself who is the ROCK upon which the true church is built.

May the light of truth shine upon us all. God bless!

I think this is a good point to resolve, isnt it? Peace!

 

[Shike]

To Happily Catholic
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD HAPPILY BY SAYING THOSE THAT DO GOD’S WILL. But the Catholic church is not the only ones there are millions who do GOD’S will that is not catholic.

Are you so sure that being Catholic is not part of God’s will? If it was, then not being so if presented the opportunity would not be wise.

GOOD for you Happily that you recognize that the church is within you, instead of being a structural building, and that it will never close.

Shai22,
So you mean the Church is spiritual and it’s okay to remove it from the physical? I don’t want to say that you’re ignoring my posts, but it really seems like it.

Shai22, you also didn’t answer my question “is Jesus God (singular)”.

It is not accurate (not even close) to think there was no Church in the old testament. There were levites and a high priest and they gathered together to offer sacrifice at a temple. They were a community called out, set apart. I’m almost shocked someone would say this. Perhaps this is why the Bible shouldn’t be open to just anyone’s interpretation (regardless if they think they are receiving divine revelation or not). Leaving this up to individuals is the Devil’s work.

peace,
Michael

 

[Shike]

Matthew 16:18 indeed mentioned the name PETER and ROCK. But if we are to go back to early greek manuscripts, petra-πέτρα", rock in Greek, is used, while the name PETER is in its masculine form “petros” which means small stone. Thus, Jesus is not referring to Peter when he mentioned the term “rock”.

Yes, I would agree with you but… today very few people talk about this anymore because it is a non-issue.

Jesus spoke aramaic, there is no such distinction with the word rock. Simple as that.

Really, what’s wrong with Jesus building his Church on Peter’s confession and giving him the keys? Either way Jesus is giving him an authority that is unique.

I would ask anyone who is open to the possibility that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church to visit during Eucharistic Adoration. Just visit, and pray to God to let you know if his body and blood is the Eucharist. Once that’s done and you’re still not convinced, go ahead and continue arguing on these forums. This is my hope anyways.

peace,
Michael