[Practicing, Poorly Catechized] Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

[salvete]

Someone suggested that since the Priest did not know the state of her soul he should err on the side of giving her communion. I would think the opposite should be true. If the priest does not know the state of her soul, he should err on the side of protecting the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord AND her soul (she would be committing sacrilige).

 

[OriginalJS]

Whatever the theological or dogmatic reasons, denying communion to a woman at her own mother’s funeral in full view and hearing of others is harsh and not in keeping with Catholic practice of sensitivity in delicate matters. At every Catholic funeral I have been to, the Celebrant meets with immediate family before the Mass begins. Of course this kind of thing is deemed newsworthy. I don’t like to think such publicity is what the priest wanted.

 

[drw72]

Its worth saying here that absolution could not be given unless she changed her living arrangements.

Heck, according to another article she showed up with her partner.

“Johnson, an art-studio owner from the District, had come to St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg with her lesbian partner.” (Washinton Post)

 

[drw72]

1. This story went viral over the last few days due to a facebook post by a friend of the family that was shocked at what happened. As of this time there is no evidence that the daughter of the deceased is the one to cause this to hit the news.

"Her anger and outrage have now led her and members of her family to demand that Guarnizo be removed from his ministry.

“You brought your politics, not your God into that Church yesterday, and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me,” she wrote in a letter to Guarnizo. “I will pray for your soul, but first I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families.”" (Washington Post)

 

[Catherine_S]

How do you presume to know the state of that woman’s soul? She may have gone to confession with another priest. Same with an adulterer. How does the priest know that a person hadn’t gone to confession?

Perhaps she could have answered (if true) I am no longer** practicing**, Father!

 

[maryjk]

1. If he knew her then he should have addressed this privately with her prior to the funeral. If he didn’t know her then he probably should have erred on the side of caution and gave her communion. As previously pointed out, it is not mere manifest grave sin that triggers canonical refusal but rather obstinate persistence in that manifest grave sin. One cannot obstinately persist if the issue is never brought up to them.
2. Unless he was actually sick (which seems awfully coincidental) then there is zero excuse to leave during the eulogy or refuse to go to the cemetery for the committal prayers.

Wasn’t this a Catholic Funeral Mass? Where is there a place for a “eulogy?”

1. This story went viral over the last few days due to a facebook post by a friend of the family that was shocked at what happened. As of this time there is no evidence that the daughter of the deceased is the one to cause this to hit the news.

 

[drw72]

“But since Saturday, other Catholics have told him that the experience has shaken their faith. “You have serious questions about how American Catholics in particular practice their faith. How many divorced people live in a technical state of sin? How many people practice some form of artificial birth control in a state of sin?” he said. “If the church will now have these ‘state of grace’ police, you know, how can that be?” (Washington Post)

I think this all points to a larger issue in the Church…Catholic education and knowledge of what the Church teaches. I don’t mean going to Catholic school but guidance from the priests, deacons, nuns, going to Sunday school, CCD…etc.

I heard on EWTN radio the other day that supposedly many Catholics don’t know that the birth control pill is a sin. A caller said that when she was younger the priest would preach about such topics during the homily.

People today seem to think being a Catholic is going to Mass every week and receiving communion now and then. When they find out what they are doing (homosexuality, abortion, birth control, etc) is against Church teachings they expect the Church to either just accept it or for the Church to change the rules to fit their own views.

 

[sedonaman]

Let’s flip it another way. Why should she be given extra consideration just because she is publically living as a lesbian? Other Catholics who are publically living in sin are routinely denied Communion.

Yes. Perhaps she was “celebrating” her “diversity” a wee bit too much.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Someone suggested that since the Priest did not know the state of her soul he should err on the side of giving her communion. I would think the opposite should be true. If the priest does not know the state of her soul, he should err on the side of protecting the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord AND her soul (she would be committing sacrilige).

Canon law is helpful in this regard:

Can. 220 No one is permitted to harm illegitimately the good reputation which a person possesses nor to injure the right of any person to protect his or her own privacy.

Can. 843 §1. Sacred ministers cannot deny the sacraments to those who seek them at appropriate times, are properly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.

Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.

To deny someone communion is to publicly state that they are an obstinate and manifest grave sinner. To do so when such circumstances are in doubt is a violation of that individual’s canonical right to not have their reputation illegitimately harmed.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Wasn’t this a Catholic Funeral Mass? Where is there a place for a “eulogy?”

The Rite of Christian Funerals (170) states that following the prayer after communion someone may speak in remembrance of the deceased.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

"Her anger and outrage have now led her and members of her family to demand that Guarnizo be removed from his ministry.

“You brought your politics, not your God into that Church yesterday, and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me,” she wrote in a letter to Guarnizo. “I will pray for your soul, but first I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families.”" (Washington Post)

Yes, once she was contacted by the press that is what she said. However, this has been viral for a few days because of a friend of the family and not the immediate family.

Also, notice that she said he will pay “on the day of judgment.” The family also stated:

Despite their outrage, the Johnsons said they don’t see the incident as a reason to criticize the church more broadly. “We agreed this is not a discussion about gay rights or about the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Larry Johnson said. “We’re not in this to Catholic-bash.” That’s the farthest thing from our minds.”

 

[Cristiano]

Yes, once she was contacted by the press that is what she said. However, this has been viral for a few days because of a friend of the family and not the immediate family.

Also, notice that she said he will pay “on the day of judgment.”

I am just glad that my family does not have “friends” like that.

 

[Catherine_S]

“But since Saturday, other Catholics have told him that the experience has shaken their faith. “You have serious questions about how American Catholics in particular practice their faith. How many divorced people live in a technical state of sin? How many people practice some form of artificial birth control in a state of sin?” he said. “If the church will now have these ‘state of grace’ police, you know, how can that be?” (Washington Post)

I think this all points to a larger issue in the Church…Catholic education and knowledge of what the Church teaches. I don’t mean going to Catholic school but guidance from the priests, deacons, nuns, going to Sunday school, CCD…etc.

I heard on EWTN radio the other day that supposedly many Catholics don’t know that the birth control pill is a sin. A caller said that when she was younger the priest would preach about such topics during the homily.

People today seem to think being a Catholic is going to Mass every week and receiving communion now and then. When they find out what they are doing (homosexuality, abortion, birth control, etc) is against Church teachings they expect the Church to either just accept it or for the Church to change the rules to fit their own views.

I am quite* certain*** that this is so!!
Here is a very interesting and brief tape which* confirms*** this** kind **of Catholic thinking in our day…
http://www.realcatholictv.com/daily/?today=2012-02-28

 

[hudson]

Anyone got an email address for this priest? I want to give him some support.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Its worth saying here that absolution could not be given unless she changed her living arrangements.

That is covered by "I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to so penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

If she went to Confession, what you suggested may be presumed.

 

[Miserissima]

Anyone got an email address for this priest? I want to give him some support.

What a splendid idea…I will PM you…

 

[Catherine_S]

To me, it appears that she thought she was entitled to communion because it was her mother’s funeral. She didn’t get her way so she’s going to whine about it.

Whine to the tune of big* $$$$$$** before this is over!*
I am certain that Father knew what he was doing, I* do not doubt** that he left because he felt sick, however, holding** fast** to Church teaching on the Body and Blood of Christ and concern for a soul may have been more important to his priesthood than pleasing others. *
It all depends on how Sacred the Body and Blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ is to each one of us…
.
"Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord."
[1 Cor. 11:27]

Regarding this Bible verse, the Catholic Church teaches that* Catholics must receive** the Holy Eucharist in** a state of grace**. Catholics must go to Confession prior to** receiving Holy Communion** if they are in a** state of mortal sin. For it is serious** to** consume** the** Holy Eucharist *without believing that it is truly the Body (the Real Presence) of Jesus. To do so is a desecration.

In 1 Corinthian 11:27, Paul says that* eating** or** drinking** in an unworthy manner is equivalent to** profaning** (literally, murdering) the Body and** Blood** of the Lord. If the Eucharist was but a symbol, as the Protestant believe, one could not be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) Jesus in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. We cannot murder a symbol. But here, in this verse, Saint Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God,** makes it clear** that when you receive Communion in an unworthy manner, you are** profaning** the** Body** and** Blood** of Christ. Such a behaviour is total disrespect for the Sacred Person of Christ.*

In the same Chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul continues by saying, "“For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgment against thmselves. For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.” [1 Cor. 11:29-30] In other words, those who receive the Sacrament of the* Holy Eucharist** in an** unworthy manner**, in **a state of mortal sin, **they can **expect **to be punished by God by illness or death. *

 

[Catherine_S]

Its worth saying here that absolution could not be given unless she changed her living arrangements.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

am certain that Father knew what he was doing, I** do not doubt** that he left because he felt sick,

Very possible.

concern for a soul may have been **more **important to his priesthood than pleasing others.

What about following Canon Law? Is it his alone to interpret? And, how did he know if she was or was not in a state of grace from having made a valid confession? Was he the only confessor in that town? I cut him no slack there.

 

[Thunderbird]

I’ve always thought this was an interesting predicament for a priest to be in…

Does one deny another communion? Did Fr. Marcel know for a fact that this school teacher hadn’t attended confession? How and where do you draw the line in either direction? Do you just give communion to anyone who asks and essentially allow people to drink their own damnation? Or do you potentially create scandal by denying them communion that you believe to be unworthy?

Boy, I’m glad I’m not a priest.