[Practicing, Poorly Catechized] Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

[rlg94086]

^These are well-said words from the both of you. However, I know this woman personally.

She does not believe in confession, as she is Buddhist.

She was my art teacher in high school, and repeatedly told us that she has rejected all things to do with the Catholic Church, despite being baptized. She did not receive the Blessed Sacrament of Confirmation, because she had rejected the Church.

How sad. If this is the same person, it sounds like she purposely set the priest up. Pray for this confused and hateful person.

 

[VeiledPapist]

How sad. If this is the same person, it sounds like she purposely set the priest up. Pray for this confused and hateful person.

Oh, yes, she is. This news has been going around like a wildfire.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Well who knows what went on between this woman and the priest inm the past. She may have gone to confession to him and denounced the church. The issue is no one knows about this case that was done in private. Confession is private so she can claim one thing and the priest is forbidden to tell his side,

If that’s true then he’s forbidden to act upon that information in that manner. To do so would be a violation of the seal…

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Canon lawyers, like theologians, seem to be a dime a dozen these days. The Magisterium and St. Paul in 1 Cor. 11 are pretty clear on this and I’ll rely on infallibility rather than opinion.

So the fact that both a canon lawyer and a bishop have said this should not have happened mean nothing? How can the canons of the Church and a member of the Magisterium be irrelevant? And in 1 Cor 11 St. Paul is telling people to refrain from the Eucharist, he’s not making a threat to withhold it from them…

 

[oneofmany]

^These are well-said words from the both of you. However, I know this woman personally.

She does not believe in confession, as she is Buddhist.

She was my art teacher in high school, and repeatedly told us that she has rejected all things to do with the Catholic Church, despite being baptized. She did not receive the Blessed Sacrament of Confirmation, because she had rejected the Church.

Are you talking about a Catholic school? If so then she should not have been teaching there. My hubby taught a class at a Catholic college and all the administration knew they weren’t allowed to speak against the church while they were doing their job. I’m not sure about after work but if someone is blatant about being against the church, I would think they would be questioned about whey they want to teach at the school.

 

[oneofmany]

If that’s true then he’s forbidden to act upon that information in that manner. To do so would be a violation of the seal…

I would think it only would be a violation if the priest said—“this woman came to me in confession and did not repent of living with her lover” I am sure he didn’t say that but of course, before this is over that will be the story. You know how these things can take on a life of their own.

 

[VeiledPapist]

Are you talking about a Catholic school? If so then she should not have been teaching there. My hubby taught a class at a Catholic college and all the administration knew they weren’t allowed to speak against the church while they were doing their job. I’m not sure about after work but if someone is blatant about being against the church, I would think they would be questioned about whey they want to teach at the school.

Yes, a Catholic school. She did not speak against the Church in a disgusted manner. She was just telling us why she did not believe in the same things that they did and why she became a Buddhist.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

You totally miss the entire point of my post.

Read the polls. Catholic women use ABC for contraception. Men get vasectomies. There are irregular marriages. I go to confession regularly. The lines do not contain even 5% of the parish.

So, the issue is that obviously, in general, there are an awful lot of people in obstinate sin presenting themselves for Holy Communion. The Church doesn’t seem to care, and that is a shame.

I think we’re in agreement. I know about the ABC, the sterilizations, the irregular marriages. When I attend Confession there are usually fewer than 20 people there, and most are familiar faces. And yet every Sunday the Communion lines are long…

But what can I do about that besides pray and assume/hope that those in the Communion lines are in a state of grace? I carry absolutely no authority in the Church. Railing about the situation online does no good. Publically cheering at what happened at this funeral might only serve to drive more people away from the Church.

So this is the way I look at it: the only person I can control is myself. If a Catholic told me they were living in a way contrary to the Faith, I would try my best to educate. But honestly I’d probably refer them to our pastor because as a pew potato my words only carry so much weight.

As a result I go back to my original reply to you. Speculating on other peoples’ souls only serves to increase misanthropic feelings and bitterness; therefore, I need to give the benefit of the doubt and trust my priests know what they’re doing.

I do think the Church cares. But I also think the Church handles such matters privately, away from our eyes. Like New England Priest said, the goal is to bring people back into the Church, not drive them away.

Luna

 

[PaulinVA]

So this is the way I look at it: the only person I can control is myself. If a Catholic told me they were living in a way contrary to the Faith, I would try my best to educate. But honestly I’d probably refer them to our pastor because as a pew potato my words only carry so much weight.

As a result I go back to my original reply to you. Speculating on other peoples’ souls only serves to increase misanthropic feelings and bitterness; therefore, I need to give the benefit of the doubt and trust my priests know what they’re doing.

I do think the Church cares. But I also think the Church handles such matters privately, away from our eyes. Like New England Priest said, the goal is to bring people back into the Church, not drive them away.

Luna

I agree that the individual “situations” should be handled privately. However, for priests to ***KNOW ***the polling data that shows the state of Catholics in America and to ***KNOW *the volume of people going to confession, and then say nothing when, Sunday and Sunday, *EVERYONE *presents themselves for Holy Communion, **something is wrong. That is my only point. Never a word from the pulpit about the specific issues that Catholics themselves say that they are doing that the Church says are objectively grave.

 

[oneofmany]

city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1509700-lesbian-denied-communion-her-mothers-funeral.html

I go to another web site and I am pleasantly surprised the people there are generally agreeing with the priest and understand the problem the church has.

Maybe our church should stop worrying what others think of them that people will be turned off if they aren’t “nice.” People want leadership now in my opinion.

 

[Nec5]

You are correct, PaulinVA. The Church should speak out about confession/reconciliation. That is absolutely true.

But, the Church should also do as the priest here did too. One wrongful choice of inaction does not mean we should commit another.

Or as I heard someone say years ago about the plethora of sins and the priests not addressing all of them: one sin at a time gentlemen. One sin at a time.

 

[Corki]

:banghead:

Yes, a Catholic school. She did not speak against the Church in a disgusted manner. She was just telling us why she did not believe in the same things that they did and why she became a Buddhist.

So, she doesn’t consider herself a Catholic anymore yet she not only thinks she is “owed” Communion but also is (according to another account of the story) demanding that the priest be removed from the parish.

:banghead:

 

[paul11b]

Fr. Marcel is my parish priest; he is a VERY good and holy priest. He gives the best homilies that I have ever heard anywhere. Fr. Marcel advised this woman, before the Mass in the sacristy that she should not receive communion, however she decided to go up for communion anyways and had to be publicly denied. She introduced Fr. Marcel to her “lover” (actual word used by her) before the Mass and then expected to receive communion after Fr. Marcel told her in private not to receive. She left Fr. Marcel with no choice but to publicly deny her the Body of Christ. Then she ran off to the newspapers afterwards and gave her story to the press. I believe that she had this plan all along, why else would she introduce Fr. Marcel to her “lover,” why else would she go up to Communion after being advised not to by Fr. Marcel? Please pray for Fr. Marcel, he really needs it now, anyone that has been to one of his Masses will tell you that he is a GREAT priest.

 

[rlg94086]

Fr. Marcel is my parish priest; he is a VERY good and holy priest. He gives the best homilies that I have ever heard anywhere. Fr. Marcel advised this woman, before the Mass in the sacristy that she should not receive communion, however she decided to go up for communion anyways and had to be publicly denied. She introduced Fr. Marcel to her “lover” (actual word used by her) before the Mass and then expected to receive communion after Fr. Marcel told her in private not to receive. She left Fr. Marcel with no choice but to publicly deny her the Body of Christ. Then she ran off to the newspapers afterwards and gave her story to the press. I believe that she had this plan all along, why else would she introduce Fr. Marcel to her “lover,” why else would she go up to Communion after being advised not to by Fr. Marcel? Please pray for Fr. Marcel, he really needs it now, anyone that has been to one of his Masses will tell you that he is a GREAT priest.

Thank you for sharing that. Between your post and VeiledPapist’s posts, the situation is becoming clearer. What a sad and pathetic situation.

 

[Linda_Marie]

"Her anger and outrage have now led her and members of her family to demand that Guarnizo be removed from his ministry.

“You brought your politics, not your God into that Church yesterday, and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me,” she wrote in a letter to Guarnizo. “I will pray for your soul, but first I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families.”" (Washington Post)

I know this woman personally, as she was my art teacher in high school.

I do not even see why she went up for Communion in the first place.

Not just because of the grave sin, but this woman is BUDDHIST.

I know her story. She was baptized Catholic, but I don’t recall her saying that she received the Blessed Sacrament of Confirmation. I do remember her saying that she got into many spats with her parish priest as a teenager. She turned away from the Roman Catholic faith at an early age. She knows all the precepts. Especially the one where non-Catholics cannot receive Communion. And yet she goes up there, conscious of grave sin. The priest should have talked to her privately, but since she knows these things and is not a Catholic, I don’t see why she went up in the first place.

It seems to me that the only one who brought politics into the church was this ex-Catholic Buddhist, who showed up at a Catholic funeral Mass with her lesbian lover in tow, in full knowlege of the Church’s teaching on the reception of the Eucharist while actively living a gravely sinful lifestyle.

There is no Right to receive the Eucharist. The priest has a duty of care to ensure that the Eucharist is not profaned.

If someone having a public affair, no matter with what sex, were to present themselves for Communion, after having introduced their lover, in those words, to the priest before Mass, it is right that they should be refused.

I am fairly certain that the priest would have told her right then and there not to present herself. (I see someone has posted that this is the case) If she went up anyway, she was trying to make a scene and create a scandal, imho.

The only thing I could say in her favour would be that perhaps grief had affected her judgment.

Who Can Receive Communion?

First, you must be in a state of grace. “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup” (1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement which can never be dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Out of habit and out of fear of what those around them will think if they do not receive Communion, some Catholics, in a state of mortal sin, choose to go forward and** offend God** rather than stay in the pew while others receive the Eucharist

It is better to offend this woman, than to profane the Eucharist.
New International Version (NIV)
1 Corinthians 5

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. *

May this be the wake-up call she needs so that her spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.

 

[CivisRomanusSum]

As her elderly mother was dying, Barbara Johnson lay next to her on the hospital bed, reciting the “Hail Mary.” Loetta Johnson, 85, had been a devout Catholic, raising her four children in the church and sending them to Catholic schools.
At her mother’s funeral mass at the St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg, Md., a grieving Barbara Johnson was the first in line to receive communion.
What happened next stunned her. The priest refused Johnson, who is gay, the sacramental bread and wine.
“He covered the bowl with the Eucharist with his hand and looked at me, and said I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman and that is a sin in the eyes of the church,” Johnson told ABC News affiliate WJLA.
Her older brother, Larry Johnson, couldn’t believe what he had seen.
“I walked to the side of the church to console her, because she was clearly distraught,” Johnson told ABC News.
Larry Johnson said his sister, who has been in a committed gay relationship for 19 years, composed herself enough to give her mother’s eulogy, but then he was shocked at what happened next. The priest left the altar, Johnson said, and didn’t return until his sister was nearly finished speaking.

More at: gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/lesbian-woman-denied-communion-mothers-funeral-002433838–abc-news.html

Kudos to Rev. Fr. Marcel Guarnizo! May God bless him for standing up for His teachings. Our priests should be more firm and defend the Faith, even when all others disagree. I pray that the Archdiocese of Washington clearly sends the message, loudly and boldly, that the Church reserves every right to deny Holy Communion to people they fully know to be in a state of sin or live a sinful lifestyle. Our good priest has just heroically defended the Body and Blood of our Lord from sacrilege! I pray that Ms. Barbara Johnson and her family come to their senses and return to the Church and in fidelity to her teachings.

 

[Fiasco]

Kudos to Rev. Fr. Marcel Guarnizo! May God bless him for standing up for His teachings… I pray that Ms. Barbara Johnson and her family come to their senses and return to the Church and in fidelity to her teachings.

AMEN!
A public display of firmness and fidelity to Catholics and non-Catholics, alike.
Miss Johnson should not have expected anything different.

Whoever wrote that soppy “article” seems (or pretends) to know almost nothing about the Church. "…the priests behaviour......", etc - as if the priest was in the wrong!!!:mad: Maybe hell be expected to apologise? If the Archdiocese attemps to force him to do that…i hope he stands his ground!!!

 

[odile53]

I am grateful that the priest refused her communion, but think there would be a less strident way of doing so.

At the time of a death in the family, typically, a family representative meets with the church, either the priest himself or a parish representative, to plan the liturgy and possibly the graveside commital service. Since the woman in question was also doing a eulogy (which is another question altogether) Father could have, at that time and place, informed her that she would not be permitted to receive communion because of her disordered living arrangement and, to avoid embarrassment, should not present herself for communion at the funeral Mass.

It would have been handled privately, not in front of family and friends, she would have been given fair warning, and if she decided to present herself anyways, any humiliation would have been due to her own action.

We had a somewhat similar predicament in our family when my sister was in an invalid marriage. She was told, when we went to the church to make funeral plans, that she would not be permitted to receive communion and should remain in her pew. She did. Nobody at the Mass noticed or batted an eyelash.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

To do otherwise would make the priest complicit in a sacrilegious communion. Good to see our clergy stand up for church principals.

Hey adulterers, thieves, idolaters and blasphemers don’t publicly flaunt their sins and demand political liberties…their sacrilegious communion is only between them and God.

 

[LoyalViews]

Now you see if that woman were tolerant, she would say “I understand why he didn’t give me Communion, and I respect that as part of His religion”, no however, she wants to ruin his life. That’s tolerance, my friends.

God Bless this Priest for enforcing the proper Canon, and protecting and enforcing the Church’s most holy teaching! We need for Priests like him!