[Practicing, Poorly Catechized] Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

[NewEnglandPriest]

Although , there may be a technical flaw in the post being referred to above, I believe Catherine S’s post agrees in principle to what the Catholic Church intends for Christian funerals . These “words of remembrance” given at the conclusion of a funeral Mass are not to be drawn out . The best information we have on hand suggests the “words of remembrance” in question given by Barbara Johnson lasted roughly 25 minutes - that’s way too long. It can be difficult however, for the one giving these “words of remembrance” to maintain an accurate concept of the time transpiring at the given (pardon the oxymoron) moment .

#170 says nothing about being “brief” nor does it give any guidelines. “Brief” in most quotes is in reference to the homily and not words of remembrance. Thus when the person speaks in remembrance their words are usually guided by what the priest has given them for guidelines.

Most Reverend Thomas J. Tobin , Bishop of Providence Rhode Island , in his article Let’s Bury The Eulogies uses wording similar to Catherine S’s when speaking of people not giving eulogies during a funeral Mass

Once again, what Bishop Tobin points out is that its really up to the priest whether or not to allow eulogies and its up to him to provide guidelines. Seeing that no one has yet to point out anything that was said in the eulogy that was unCatholic then there is no apparent reason to complain about that particular aspect of the funeral.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

So since Fr. Marcel is my parish priest, and he is such a great priest it is very disheartening to me that he is being thrown under the bus by the Archdiocese. I have decided that if the Cardinal does not defend his priests when they do something that is correct then I do not want to be a part of that organization.

Even a canon lawyer from Rome has pointed out that Fr. Marcel, despite the best of intentions did not follow canon law.

If Fr. Marcel gets any sort of punishment, or if he has to move parishes because he followed the teachings of the Church then I am going to be exclusively an SSPX goer.

Trust me, Fr. Marcel is not going to receive any “punishment.” This does not rise to level of anything that results in anything. However saying that we will leave for a non-faculty possessing group is not a very Catholic response.

 

[ahaley]

As a normal run-of-the-mill pew potato, I have to say that I am glad that God is merciful to me, but at the same time recognize that 30% of Catholic women are sterilized and 30% more practice artificial birth control, but yet everyone gets up every Sunday to go to Holy Communion.

A Catholic of either sex who sins by being sterilized can receive Holy Communion after receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Alan

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Wait, what? She demanded communion?

As is typical in these situations, there is much being demanded …

 

[PaulinVA]

A Catholic of either sex who sins by being sterilized can receive Holy Communion after receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Alan

Yes, I am assuming that many are not sorry for being sterilized, and therefore are not eligible for reconciliation.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

A Catholic of either sex who sins by being sterilized can receive Holy Communion after receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

And indeed anyone can receive the Holy Eucharist after acknowledging their sin, repenting and perfecting this repentance in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Much different than flaunting one’s sin and, through demand of the Holy Eucharist, proclaiming that such sinful behavior is, well, not at all sinful.

 

[PaulinVA]

In the two posts that defend the priest in question there is a glaring discrepancy present.
One person who claims to have heard the story first hand from the priest claims Fr. did tell the woman prior to Mass to not come forward for communion.
Now there’s a post by someone who claims to have seen the incident and that the priest did not get a chance to discuss the issue with the woman.

So which is it?

Whichever story it is, there had to have been a way to apologize to the lesbian Buddhist and maintain the dignity of Father Marcel. I’m sure you would want your Bishop to not hang you out to dry in a situation like this, even if you were well-meaning but wrong.

It is a perfect chance to explain why it is so hard to deny Holy Communion, and why we see people that we think shouldn’t be receiving going up every Sunday.

Another chance squandered away.

 

[VeiledPapist]

And indeed anyone can receive the Holy Eucharist after acknowledging their sin, repenting and perfecting this repentance in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Much different than flaunting one’s sin and, through demand of the Holy Eucharist, proclaiming that such sinful behavior is, well, not at all sinful.

I still can’t believe my high school art teacher is doing this. As I have said a while back, she knows the precepts of the Church: that those with grave sin cannot receive the Eucharist. She’s also a Buddhist. She knows that non-Catholics aren’t even supposed to go up in the first place.
As my boyfriend said, she knows all the precepts, but wants to bring in politics to the Church to cause a huge stink about it. She runs to her precious, left-wing, anti-Catholic media.
I guess my wound flows very deep. This woman taught me so much about the subject that I was passionate about: art. I’m majoring in it. She always lent an ear to me during those terrible, high school girl times. Now, she causes the removal of a good man because he was doing his job, and brings in drama to try and “correct” the Catholic Church. Just like this H.H.S Mandate.
Who do they think they are. We have seen EMPIRES crumble before us.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I still can’t believe my high school art teacher is doing this. As I have said a while back, she knows the precepts of the Church: that those with grave sin cannot receive the Eucharist. She’s also a Buddhist. She knows that non-Catholics aren’t even supposed to go up in the first place.
As my boyfriend said, she knows all the precepts, but wants to bring in politics to the Church to cause a huge stink about it. She runs to her precious, left-wing, anti-Catholic media.
I guess my wound flows very deep. This woman taught me so much about the subject that I was passionate about: art. I’m majoring in it. She always lent an ear to me during those terrible, high school girl times. Now, she causes the removal of a good man because he was doing his job, and brings in drama to try and “correct” the Catholic Church. Just like this H.H.S Mandate.
Who do they think they are. We have seen EMPIRES crumble before us.

Your personal testimony proves that there is good in all of us, irrespective of our actions, as the Light of Christ must have shown forth from her at some point to have affected you so positively.

We pray that her full goodness be restored, and that she may walk alongside the Lord once more!

 

[VeiledPapist]

Your personal testimony proves that there is good in all of us, irrespective of our actions, as the Light of Christ must have shown forth from her at some point to have affected you so positively.

We pray that her full goodness be restored, and that she may walk alongside the Lord once more!

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I am praying, too.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Whichever story it is, there had to have been a way to apologize to the lesbian Buddhist and maintain the dignity of Father Marcel. I’m sure you would want your Bishop to not hang you out to dry in a situation like this, even if you were well-meaning but wrong

Fr. Marcel wasn’t exactly “hung out to dry.” If you read the letter closely it doesn’t really say very much. He probably just received a phone call reminding him that there might be better ways to deal with the situation and that’s about it. I highly doubt he was scolded or punished in any way.

It is a perfect chance to explain why it is so hard to deny Holy Communion, and why we see people that we think shouldn’t be receiving going up every Sunday.

Another chance squandered away.

The archdiocese was responding to a fire, it didn’t feel the need to potentially start other ones.

 

[Catherine_S]

You’re incorrect in what you’re quoting. What you quote is the instruction that the homily is to be focused on the readings and the faith. However, the Ritual clearly states (#170) that following the prayer after communion someone may speak in remembrance of the deceased.

And if you want to blame someone for a perceived violation of Church procedure then don’t blame the people who were allowed to violate, blame the priest who allowed the violation.

I do not believe this women, who had just received the* Blessed Sacrament*** after she was directed by Father to refrain from doing so** would have listened** to the directions from him on a non existing Catholic Eulogy.
No wonder, Father developed a migrane, became ill, and wlked off the altar until it was all over!
"loopholes "
.
Order of Christian Funerals: “A member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased before the final commendation begins.” (OCF # 170) If such a person does speak at all, the ritual envisions it happening at the very end of the Mass while the priest and ministers** are already standing** at the coffin about to begin the Final Commendation. The words are to be very brief, highlighting an aspect of the deceased’s life of faith. In short, what often happens at the end of the Funeral Mass is not what the Church permits. Even here at Blessed Sacrament we give the family or friend very specific guidelines about what is proper and how it is to be done. Our experience, however, is that our guidance is rarely followed.
.
I stand by my previous statement! *
More disrespecting of Catholic teaching!
A lot of disrespect** was shown at this** particular** funeral Mass,** first** to Father. second to the Blessed Sacrament and lastly to the** teachings** of the Catholic Church.*
We Catholics need to learn* anew*** respect and reverance for the teachings of the Church for** if we do not**, neither **will **others.

 

[PaulinVA]

Fr. Marcel wasn’t exactly “hung out to dry.” If you read the letter closely it doesn’t really say very much. He probably just received a phone call reminding him that there might be better ways to deal with the situation and that’s about it. I highly doubt he was scolded or punished in any way.

The court of public opinion is much harsher than a butt-kicking from the chancellery. The impression from the statement is that the Church does not deny Communion to lesbian Buddhists, not that the well-meaning priest, in a terrible situation, should have let it go.

The archdiocese was responding to a fire, it didn’t feel the need to potentially start other ones.

I understand that, but I am so sick of these public relations disasters.

 

[Catherine_S]

#170 says nothing about being “brief” nor does it give any guidelines. “Brief” in most quotes is in reference to the homily and not words of remembrance. Thus when the person speaks in remembrance their words are usually guided by what the priest has given them for guidelines.

Once again, what Bishop Tobin points out is that its really up to the priest whether or not to allow eulogies and its up to him to provide guidelines. Seeing that no one has yet to point out anything that was said in the eulogy that was unCatholic then there is no apparent reason to complain about that particular aspect of the funeral.

I do not believe this women, who had just received the* Blessed Sacrament** after she was directed by Father to refrain from doing so** would have listened** to the directions from him on a non existing Catholic Eulogy.*
No wonder, Father developed a migrane, became ill, and wlked off the altar until it was all over!
"loopholes "
.
Order of Christian Funerals: “A member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased before the final commendation begins.” (OCF # 170) If such a person does speak at all, the ritual envisions it happening at the very end of the Mass while the priest and ministers** are already standing** at the coffin about to begin the Final Commendation. The words are to be very brief, highlighting an aspect of the deceased’s life of faith. In short, what often happens at the end of the Funeral Mass is not what the Church permits. Even here at Blessed Sacrament we give the family or friend very specific guidelines about what is proper and how it is to be done. Our experience, however, is that our guidance is rarely followed.
.
I stand by my previous statement! *
More disrespecting of Catholic teaching!
A lot of disrespect** was shown at this** particular** funeral Mass,** first** to Father. second to the Blessed Sacrament and lastly to the** teachings** of the Catholic Church.*
We Catholics need to learn** anew** respect and reverance for the teachings of the Church and our priests need to see that we do learn! For** if we do not respect** our** own** church teachings, neither **will **others.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I do not believe this women, who had just received the* Blessed Sacrament*** after she was directed by Father to refrain from doing so** would have listened** to the directions from him on a non existing Catholic Eulogy.
No wonder, Father developed a migrane, became ill, and wlked off the altar until it was all over!
"loopholes "

Once again, since no one has pointed out anything in the eulogy that was “unorthodox” then there’s no reason to complain about it.
.

Order of Christian Funerals: “A member or a friend of the family may speak in remembrance of the deceased before the final commendation begins.” (OCF # 170) If such a person does speak at all, the ritual envisions it happening at the very end of the Mass while the priest and ministers** are already standing** at the coffin about to begin the Final Commendation. The words are to be very brief, highlighting an aspect of the deceased’s life of faith. In short, what often happens at the end of the Funeral Mass is not what the Church permits. Even here at Blessed Sacrament we give the family or friend very specific guidelines about what is proper and how it is to be done. Our experience, however, is that our guidance is rarely followed.

Once again, stating that the “remembrance” is to be “brief” is conjecture. The ritual says no such thing. And there’s plenty of “big Catholic” funerals where there’s a long eulogy so to pick this one out seems a bit strange.

.
I stand by my previous statement! *
More disrespecting of Catholic teaching!
A lot of disrespect*** was shown at this** particular** funeral Mass,** first** to Father. second to the Blessed Sacrament and lastly to the** teachings** of the Catholic Church.
We Catholics need to learn** anew** respect and reverance for the teachings of the Church and our priests need to see that we do learn! For** if we do not respect** our** own** church teachings, neither **will **others.

There is no evidence that the eulogy was disrespectful of Catholic teaching. If someone isn’t told to “keep it brief” then they can’t be blamed for failing to follow a nonexistent direction.
The eulogy is irrelevant to this conversation since no one has raised any issue other than length and that’s something that’s an issue for most eulogies.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The court of public opinion is much harsher than a butt-kicking from the chancellery.

The court of public opinion will move on to something else fairly soon and this will be a forgotten footnote. Small fires arise from time to time and then they go away. Nothing new under the sun here. We who are in the public eye deal with this from time to time, it goes with the territory.

In my diocese in the past 2 years a few priests have been front page news for issues within their parish. They were discussed in the paper, on the radio, and in coffee houses and bars. I’d bet good money no one, other than us their brother priests, remembers the situations or the individuals involved.

The impression from the statement is that the Church does not deny Communion to lesbian Buddhists, not that the well-meaning priest, in a terrible situation, should have let it go.

I don’t get that impression from the letter whatsoever. There’s no indication anyone was aware she self-indentified as a Buddhist at some point in her life. That piece of information, AFAIK, only comes from a poster on this forum who claims to have had her as a teacher.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Exclusive: Inside sources provide new info on priest censured for denying lesbian Communion

lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-inside-sources-provide-new-info-on-priest-censured-for-denying-le

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Exclusive: Inside sources provide new info on priest censured for denying lesbian Communion

lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-inside-sources-provide-new-info-on-priest-censured-for-denying-le

Terrible headline. The article never justifies calling Diego von Stauffenberg an “inside source.” Who is he? How do we know his info is reliable?

 

[PaulinVA]

Terrible headline. The article never justifies calling Diego von Stauffenberg an “inside source.” Who is he? How do we know his info is reliable?

Well, he went to Franciscan University of Steubenville, how’s that. I checked his linked in page.

 

[Khalid]

I believe Jesus would have said there are times, such as at a funeral, when solidarity and compassion should override the letter of the law. Throughout the Gospels, he routinely violates the Mosaic law, such as when he heals the cripple at Bethesda on the Sabbath (Jn 5:1-18). Lets not be like the Pharisees who tried all the more to kill him for his compassion.

This woman was grieving the loss of her mother and sought comfort for that grief from the Lord. I cannot image that Jesus, who loved his mother dearly, would have pushed her away at a time like that. It is inconceivable to me.

I don’t know what was going on in the mind of that priest, but he made a error. He is only human and such things happen. Perhaps he was sick or having an anxiety attack. However, the response of everyone else associated with the Church was exactly right.

I think that should be the point we take from this story.

Jesus most definitely would have refused her if she didn’t “go and sin no more”. Is compassion letting someone damn herself to Hell for receiving communion in such a state?