Pray for Abdul Rahmen

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LilyM:
If we set up threads to pray for everyone who needs it then we’d never be writing about anything else! The reason cestus put this one up is that not that many people noticed the news story about Abdul Rahman. Everyone on the planet has heard about Abu Ghraib and the war in Iraq many many times already.
I agree, and as an American I wish the war never happened. But sadly our country is very much divided on this issue.

As a Christian I personally believe it was wrong for America to invade Iraq, nor do I approve of the abuses that happened at Abu Ghraib.

But freedom’s defamatory rhetoric saddens me almost as much.
 
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Catholic29:
I agree, and as an American I wish the war never happened. But sadly our country is very much divided on this issue.

As a Christian I personally believe it was wrong for America to invade Iraq, nor do I approve of the abuses that happened at Abu Ghraib.

But freedom’s defamatory rhetoric saddens me almost as much.
Well there’s more than enough rhetoric (or should that be hot air?) going around on all sides here, not that I haven’t been guilty of some of it myself :o
 
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LilyM:
If we set up threads to pray for everyone who needs it then we’d never be writing about anything else! The reason cestus put this one up is that not that many people noticed the news story about Abdul Rahman. Everyone on the planet has heard about Abu Ghraib and the war in Iraq many many times already.
Dear LilyM:

What a nonsensical argument !!

Abu Ghuraib jail incident came to light **only after the whole damage was done ** and photos were accidentally first published in the UK’s newpaper and not in the USA’s whose soldiers were the main culprits.

Then recently in Australia’s papers some more photos were smuggled and released and not in the USA’s civilised Christian newspapers.

And what has came to light so far is just TIP OF THE BURG. Lot of atrocities committed by the Christian Coalition forces are yet to be known.

The Iraq invasion by the Christian coalition forces was due to fake or non-existence of any solid evidence, and it was admitted only after when mroe than 100,000 innocent Iraqi Muslims were martyred and more than 1000 coalition men had died in vain.

How about the Gitmo innocent Muslim prisoners who are still held in custody for no proof or court case ? You can and should open threads for each prisoner because each human life is precious. They too are human beings and children of God.

Are you telling me that lives of these innocent Muslim babies, children, men and women who died in Iraq and Afghanistan are worthless as opposed to Abdul who is still alive and may be a victim of a political plan to defame Afghan culture or to “show the world” that Afghan is “Islamic” country under the Christian Coalition forces, or may be Abdul is an abnormal man since he has spent many years in Germany with an international Christian group which actaully try to convert people with exchange of food by taking the advantage of poverty of unfortunate people? It is well known how Chistian missionaries convert people with their deceptions.

Do you really think people will buy this drama of Abdul, played under Christian coaltion forces and their bombs, in a colony of Christian “civilised” coalition forces whose puppet Karzai is enjoying his dictatorship now?

Do you think Muslims are not aware of their apostasy laws?

Do you think sincere non-Muslim truth seekers will go by bias deceptive media reports to evaluate Islamic law?

Are you drunk or what?

 
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freedomm:
Dear LilyM:

What a nonsensical argument !!

Abu Ghuraib jail incident came to light **only after the whole damage was done ** and photos were accidentally first published in the UK’s newpaper and not in the USA’s whose soldiers were the main culprits.

Then recently in Australia’s papers some more photos were smuggled and released and not in the USA’s civilised Christian newspapers.

And what has came to light so far is just TIP OF THE BURG. Lot of atrocities committed by the Christian Coalition forces are yet to be known.

The Iraq invasion by the Christian coalition forces was due to fake or non-existence of any solid evidence, and it was admitted only after when mroe than 100,000 innocent Iraqi Muslims were martyred and more than 1000 coalition men had died in vain.

How about the Gitmo innocent Muslim prisoners who are still held in custody for no proof or court case ? You can and should open threads for each prisoner because each human life is precious. They too are human beings and children of God.

Are you telling me that lives of these innocent Muslim babies, children, men and women who died in Iraq and Afghanistan are worthless as opposed to Abdul who is still alive and may be a victim of a political plan to defame Afghan culture or to “show the world” that Afghan is “Islamic” country under the Christian Coalition forces, or may be Abdul is an abnormal man since he has spent many years in Germany with an international Christian group which actaully try to convert people with exchange of food by taking the advantage of poverty of unfortunate people? It is well known how Chistian missionaries convert people with their deceptions.

Do you really think people will buy this drama of Abdul, played under Christian coaltion forces and their bombs, in a colony of Christian “civilised” coalition forces whose puppet Karzai is enjoying his dictatorship now?

Do you think Muslims are not aware of their apostasy laws?

Do you think sincere non-Muslim truth seekers will go by bias deceptive media reports to evaluate Islamic law?

Are you drunk or what?

freedomm, firstly I can assure you I drink about as much alcohol as any self-respecting Muslim - meaning none. Given this, and given that I’m agreeing with you that Abu Ghraib and the civilian casualties in the Iraq war are terrible, you’d be wise to quit with the insults.

Let me make myself clear - I do not believe, and never implied, that we know the whole truth about Abu Ghraib or civilian casualties in Iraq. What I am saying is that those two situations HAVE received a lot of media coverage. You’d have to have been vacationing on another planet not to at least know that a lot of abuses and casualties have gone on. Beyond that I don’t think anyone will ever know the full extent of the truth. Abdul Rahman’s situation, on the other hand, has not been nearly as widely publicised. And being that he hasn’t been tried or executed yet, a lot of real good can be done for him by praying.

Regardless, I am praying for him and for all other victims of prejudice and violence wherever they may be, however many they may be and whatever religion or nationality they may be. I suggest you do the same. As I said, don’t assume I’m totally blind or bigoted.
 
There is only one way to deal with muslims. Everyone knows it. God knows it. That’s why the final battle will be between muslims and Christians.
 
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freedomm:
Dear discipleofJesus:

First, not every Hadith is a Hadith which begins with the words “Narrated by so and so…”

All Hadith which are narrations meant to be checked/scrutinised for their authenticity and the context in order not to attribute any falsehood to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

There is a whole science called ** 'ilumul-Hadith.**--------
Ah, the “Weak Hadith” defense. Here’s a response
There is extensive historical information on the life and teachings of Muhammad that is found in the written collections of the ancient Muslim oral traditions. These written traditions are called hadiths1. Some of the most valued collections of hadith were those collected by Bukhari, Dawud, and Muslim, who were ancient traditional Muslim scholars.2
Their extensive collections provide detailed information on the thoughts and actions of Muhammad. These collections must be studied in order to understand Muhammad’s life and teachings. In fact, these collections provide vastly more information on the life and teachings of Muhammad than does the Qur’an itself.
However, when someone examines these accepted hadiths, they find some accounts in which Muhammad displays unfavorable behavior. This behavior is an embarrassment to many Western Muslims who seek to defend Muhammadanism in the Western world. Often, these Muslims seek to minimize these historical accounts by claiming that these hadiths are weak; and, therefore, they should be ignored in discussion of Muhammad’s religion.
But, is this weak hadith argument a legitimate defense of Muhammad’s character? Or, is it a convenient ploy to divert the attention away from the unfavorable actions of Muhammad? Why should the ancient writings of the great traditional Muslim scholars be set aside so conveniently whenever Muhammad’s questionable behavior is presented from scholarly traditional Muslim sources by non-Muslims?
Now, it is true there were many hadiths that were rejected by ancient traditional Muslim scholars. They rejected them because these traditions were fabricated (maudu’) for political reasons long after Muhammad died. So, it is proper that these fabricated traditions should be rejected by those who follow the life and teachings of Muhammad as well as by Western scholarship. These fabricated Muslim traditions are very much like the apocryphal post-New Testament writings that appeared long after the genuine New Testament gospels were written. Now, it is clear that Al-Bukhari, Imam Muslim and others did not intend to include maudu’ hadiths within their collections. In fact, they applied stringent standards to assure that these mandu’ hadiths were excluded.
For an oral tradition to be accepted as sahih (sound), it must meet important requirements. And, if a tradition did not meet the requirements for a sahih hadith, it was not accepted into the family of sahih hadiths. However, the standard hadith collections are considered by traditional Muslim scholarship to be largely sahih. Therefore, it is unjustified to use a weak hadith defense when a sahih hadith is used to present the actions and teachings of Muhammad.
Literally means sahih means sound, healthy, and without fault. **Firstly, to be a sahih hadith, the hadith must have the chain of transmission (isnad) in which there is no weakness. Each link of the chain must be connected by a narrator who heard the narration from the prior link in the chain. The chain of narrators must be an unbroken chain. Secondly, each individual narrator must be a just (‘adl) Muslim of good reputation. Thirdly, the text (matn) of the hadith must be in accordance with orthodox Islamic teachings. **
When a hadith meets all the proper qualifications for a sahih hadith, it must be accepted by all Muslims. A sahih hadith is an obligatory hadith. It must be acted upon according to the consensus of the Muslim scholarship. The sahih hadiths are those used as the sources of Islamic jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh). And, it is proof in cases involving Islamic shari’ah law.
So, it is not legitimate for a Muslim who professes to follow the teachings and behavior of Muhammad to downplay sahih hadiths. These sahih hadiths are not weak hadiths in the technical sense.
Excerpted from muhammadanism.com/Hadith/Weak.htm [bold and underline emphasis mine]
(click on the link to read the whole article)

By the way, you haven’t given any evidence as to why we should believe that the Sahih Hadiths I quoted are not authentic. You simply claimed that Hadiths are checked for authenticity. You didn’t even claim that the Sahih Hadiths I quoted are not authentic.
 
Please keep the topic focused on the situation with Mr. Rahmen. And prayers for his safety.

God bless-

Rachel
 
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pro_universal:
I see more of the same here:

If a country that is populated by muslims does something bad, it speaks for all muslims!

If someone brings up an example of a christian doing something bad, “he/she was not following christianity.”

And if there’s an example of muslims doing something good: “they’re not following islam.”

If someone has a meter for hypocrisy, he’d best keep it away from this thread, or it will break from overactivity.
Then the so called “good” Muslims of that country should rise up and stop the atrosity from happening. If you see a wrong and don’t fix it, guess what. You are just as guilty as those doing the wrong. Period.
 
The problem is that they ARE practicing Islam when they want to kill Abdul. The majority of Afghans say they agree. That says something about not just a small group, but the majority. Islam needs to change. If it doesn’t then Abdul and all of us will have to pay. I don’t see Muslims praying for all of Saddams victims who far outnumber anything we have done or for the denizens of their own prisons where torture is rampant.

I posted this to put a name on the Christian victims. Pro and others like to put this all on the level of theory. Abdul is a real man with real rights. This isn’t a human error or an errant bomb or a violation of the rules of engagement. This is the potential murder of a man simply because he is a Christian. If you don’t see something wrong with that then there is something wrong with you.
 
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cestusdei:
The problem is that they ARE practicing Islam when they want to kill Abdul. The majority of Afghans say they agree. That says something about not just a small group, but the majority. Islam needs to change. If it doesn’t then Abdul and all of us will have to pay. I don’t see Muslims praying for all of Saddams victims who far outnumber anything we have done or for the denizens of their own prisons where torture is rampant.
Dear cestusdei:

Did you realise how funny logic/reasoning you used which is like shooting in your own feet?

From you logic, you all Christians of the West are guilty of murdering more than 100,000 innocent Iraqi Muslim babies, Muslim children, Muslim men and Muslim women through your Christian Coalition forces’ Daisy cutter bombs because you all really did not stop your Western Christian governments to stop the 21st century holocaust of Muslims.

Not to mention how you all too are guilty of dropping cluster bombs on innocent Afghani villagers who had nothing to do with what happened in America. Not to mention the holocaust of Bosnian Muslims at the hands of Christian Serbs for years.

What a nice logic you used, while forgetting what your own Christian “civilised” forces have already committed in Abu Ghuraib Jail. Was there any real influential protest in the Christian world when you all learned it through a UK’s or Australian newspaper/media? Then what you learned is just a Tip of the Burg, Mr. cestusdei. Shame on you!

Do you think after all these atrocities and disgusting humiliations that sparked emotions of all men in the whole Muslim world, ordinary Afghanis will be interested in whether their own** one abnormal man (Abdul)** supported by their enemy Christian Coalition forces, who was out of their country for more than 16 years and working for a Christain missionary org for years, lives or dies due to creating a mischief in todays “free” culture of Afghanistan which is actually under crusade Chrisitian coalition forces?

The funny thing is according to your same Western media, this abnormal man - Abdul - “embraced” Christianity 16 years ago. But Taliban (who were portrayed as “radical fundementalists” by the West/Western media all the time) did not kill this apostate when they were in power.

What this “apostate” was doing now in Afghanistan, after working in Germany for a Christian missionary Org., anyway?

Although we don’t have full context of this "apostate’s " Western media’s commercial story, because Western media will never reveal the whole nine yards of it because it is interested only in it’s controversial part to portray Islam or Muslims as bad as possible by hook or by crook, and if the whole story is revealed, then there will be no real issue to blow it out of proportion.

Do you people really think the whole world is stupid and buy everything that your media tells?

Your media’s job is to keep the ignorants of the West in the dark as much as possible to serve the agenda of power and money hungry people of the West.

I won’t be surprised if you are affected by your media’s tricks; it only proves that how ignorant are people like you, and how clever and devilish is your media to keep people like you in dark and decieve you. Because it is for sure that no Muslim or any sincere non-Muslim truth-seeker will ever buy what your media is portraying about islam/Muslims.

Keep in mind that:
when the Roman Empire became Christian, apostates were punished by deprivation of all civil rights. They could not give evidence in a court of law, and could neither bequeath nor inherit property. To induce anyone to apostatize was an offence punishable with death.

 
Semper Fi:
I knew you could not just do the human thing and pray for this man. You had to answer my simple request for prayers for this man with more rhetoric.

God bless!
Dear Semper Fi:

I hope that this abnormal man in question (i.e. Abdul Rahmen) is freed as soon as possible without any harm unless he is guilty of creating mischief and punishable according the law of the land.

And I pray to God that this abnormal man after becoming a normal, will come back (revert) to Islam because following Islam means following the Will of God of Jesus Christ (PBUH) also.

And not only this, I also pray for you all Christians that you too as well, revert to Islam, as soon as possible, because you me and all were born in the state of Islam.

No kinship to Jesus Christ is going to save anyone unless if someone really follow the **Will of God ** of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Muhammed (PBUT).

Matthew 12:46-50
New american Bible



46 32 **While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with him. **
47 (Someone told him, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak with you.”) 33
48 **But he said in reply to the one who told him, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” **
49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.
50 **For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother." **

Footnotes:

32 [46-50] See Mark 3:31-35. Matthew has omitted Mark 3:20-21 which is taken up in Mark 3:31 (see the note on Matthew 12:22-32), yet the point of the story is the same in both gospels: natural kinship with Jesus counts for nothing; **only one who does the will of his heavenly Father ** belongs to his true family.

33 [47] This verse is omitted in some important textual witnesses, including Codex Sinaiticus (original reading) and Codex Vaticanus.

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm ]​

This abnormal man (Abdul), right now appears to us, is under the misguidance of some Christian deceptive missionary organisation who buy peoples’ faith with exchange of food/money. It is well known how Christian missionaries play tricks to convert people. This kind of conversion to any religion makes no sense and ofcourse it is against the Will of God. Conversion should and must be based on true will and choice and without any deception or trick.​

 
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freedomm:
This abnormal man (Abdul), right now appears to us, is under the misguidance of some Christian deceptive missionary organisation who buy peoples’ faith with exchange of food/money.
Maybe he’s also keeping Elvis Presley and the Loch Ness Monster in his basement as well??
 
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exoflare:
Maybe he’s also keeping Elvis Presley and the Loch Ness Monster in his basement as well??
Dear exoflare:
You never know how abnormal people behave. It all depends upon how much abnormal a person is.

Sometimes even normal people due to money sell their faith, bodies and other stuff.

What do you think about Christian prostitutes who even sell their bodies?

Or think about those “normal” Christian people who live absolutely naked all the time in the most “civilised” Christian America (in certain areas). These “normal” and “civilised” Christians even forced their kids to live naked. What they are called? Naturists ? These people have Christian names too and when they get married they go by Christian ceremony. I wonder how they pray in their Churches with Bibles in their hands when they are not even with G-Strings!!

I’m not sure if that abnormal man in question (i.e. Abdul) has read Isaiah 7:20 and it’s footnote in the Catholic New American Bible alongwith Ezekiel chapter 23 and Genesis 38.

 
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freedomm:
Dear exoflare:You never know how abnormal people behave. It all depends upon how much abnormal a person is.

Sometimes even normal people due to money sell their faith, bodies and other stuff.

What do you think about Christian prostitutes who even sell their bodies?

Or think about those “normal” Christian people who live absolutely naked all the time in the most “civilised” Christian America (in certain areas). These “normal” and “civilised” Christians even forced their kids to live naked. What they are called? Naturists ? These people have Christian names too and when they get married they go by Christian ceremony. I wonder how they pray in their Churches with Bibles in their hands when they are not even with G-Strings!!
Can you post something that makes any sense? I’ll give you another try.
 
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freedomm:
Dear cestusdei:

Did you realise how funny logic/reasoning you used which is like shooting in your own feet?

From you logic, you all Christians of the West are guilty of murdering more than 100,000 innocent Iraqi Muslim babies, Muslim children, Muslim men and Muslim women through your Christian Coalition forces’ Daisy cutter bombs because you all really did not stop your Western Christian governments to stop the 21st century holocaust of Muslims.

Not to mention how you all too are guilty of dropping cluster bombs on innocent Afghani villagers who had nothing to do with what happened in America. Not to mention the holocaust of Bosnian Muslims at the hands of Christian Serbs for years.

What a nice logic you used, while forgetting what your own Christian “civilised” forces have already committed in Abu Ghuraib Jail. Was there any real influential protest in the Christian world when you all learned it through a UK’s or Australian newspaper/media? Then what you learned is just a Tip of the Burg, Mr. cestusdei. Shame on you!

Do you think after all these atrocities and disgusting humiliations that sparked emotions of all men in the whole Muslim world, ordinary Afghanis will be interested in whether their own** one abnormal man (Abdul)** supported by their enemy Christian Coalition forces, who was out of their country for more than 16 years and working for a Christain missionary org for years, lives or dies due to creating a mischief in todays “free” culture of Afghanistan which is actually under crusade Chrisitian coalition forces?

The funny thing is according to your same Western media, this abnormal man - Abdul - “embraced” Christianity 16 years ago. But Taliban (who were portrayed as “radical fundementalists” by the West/Western media all the time) did not kill this apostate when they were in power.

What this “apostate” was doing now in Afghanistan, after working in Germany for a Christian missionary Org., anyway?

Although we don’t have full context of this "apostate’s " Western media’s commercial story, because Western media will never reveal the whole nine yards of it because it is interested only in it’s controversial part to portray Islam or Muslims as bad as possible by hook or by crook, and if the whole story is revealed, then there will be no real issue to blow it out of proportion.

Do you people really think the whole world is stupid and buy everything that your media tells?

Your media’s job is to keep the ignorants of the West in the dark as much as possible to serve the agenda of power and money hungry people of the West.

I won’t be surprised if you are affected by your media’s tricks; it only proves that how ignorant are people like you, and how clever and devilish is your media to keep people like you in dark and decieve you. Because it is for sure that no Muslim or any sincere non-Muslim truth-seeker will ever buy what your media is portraying about islam/Muslims.

Keep in mind that:

when the Roman Empire became Christian, apostates were punished by deprivation of all civil rights. They could not give evidence in a court of law, and could neither bequeath nor inherit property. To induce anyone to apostatize was an offence punishable with death.

Hi brother, i wonder why you said “all christians of the west.” How do you know? Does that include all the priests and Pope?

Forcing others to embrace our religion (Islam to Christian or vice versa) is wrong and so is killing babies, women, men, etc. Thank you for reminding the dark history of Christianity but all the religions and all of us have our dark history. About Abdul Rahman, the death sentence because of leaving islam is totally wrong. I’m sure most of the muslims in the world don’t agree with this. My muslim friends don’t agree with this and i hope so do you because this law is against humanity. God bless you
 
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freedomm:
Dear Semper Fi:

I hope that this abnormal man in question (i.e. Abdul Rahmen) is freed as soon as possible without any harm unless he is guilty of creating mischief and punishable according the law of the land.

And I pray to God that this abnormal man after becoming a normal, will come back (revert) to Islam because following Islam means following the Will of God of Jesus Christ (PBUH) also.
No, sorry it does not. being a Muslim does not make you a follower of the real Jesus, it makes you a follower of the self-proclaimed Prophet Muhammad who had some 20+ wives and sex with a nine year old girl. Islam is just a merger of a few different Christian heresies. I am glad that you pray for this man, but I am saddened that you do not believe he, as a grown adult, has the right to choose his own faith. Calling someone “abnormal” for converting to Christianity on a Christian forum is highly insulting.

God bless you.
 
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ronald:
My muslim friends don’t agree with this and i hope so do you because this law is against humanity. God bless you
Dear ronald:

In Islamic law, not every apostasy is punishable in by death.

You ( and your bias deceptive Christian commercial media) cannot teach me what Islam is or what Muslim believes.

Your media’s job is to keep the ignorants of the West in dark about Islam, as much as possible.

 
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freedomm:
Dear ronald:

In Islamic law, not every apostasy is punishable in by death.

You ( and your bias deceptive Christian commercial media) cannot teach me what Islam is or what Muslim believes.

Your media’s job is to keep the ignorants of the West in dark about Islam, as much as possible.

Sorry. Our media is not Christian, it is secular. The only Christian media that I watch is the Eternal Word Television Network.
 
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