Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him ..Mary or Jesus?

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AshleyBelle:
I have found that peace, Leeann…but it seems like you won’t accept the reason.
I didn’t find peace because of my own interpretation. I found peace because God brought me to the one church with the authority of Christ Himself. I found peace because I accepted, humbly, to be a part of His church. And I chose to obediantly, faithfull, and lovingly embrace the Body of Christ. To put HIS truth above my own understanding
The problem is that you don’t believe they taught this, but I believe they do.

You turn to yourself and your view of the scriptures… (though with good intention, believing you are only turning to God.)

I turn to the church which I believe was instituted by Christ…so that while I may read the scriptures and pray for the Holy Spirit to lead me…I will not come up with a false interpretation.

Do you think God wants us to read the same scriptures and believe two different things?
AshleyBelle - in spite of what you posted about ten minutes ago (quote posted above) - it appears that you haven’t got peace…you’re still asking questions with regards to how you go about doing it and how I go about doing it…and “if God wants people to believe two different things”…I have peace in my heart and my spirit with reading and trusting God to enable me to understand what His Will is for me. All I do know for sure, is that He hasn’t failed me yet and that I haven’t gone to - or -through anyone other than Jesus…because it’s not to be found in His gospel message anywhere. 🙂
 
AshleyBelle - in spite of what you posted about ten minutes ago (quote posted above) - it appears that you haven’t got peace…you’re still asking questions with regards to how you go about doing it and how I go about doing it…and “if God wants people to believe two different things”…I have peace in my heart and my spirit with reading and trusting God to enable me to understand what His Will is for me. All I do know for sure, is that He hasn’t failed me yet and that I haven’t gone to - or -through anyone other than Jesus…because it’s not to be found in His gospel message anywhere. 🙂
I’m asking questions to try and understand why having peace compels you to come here and disapprove of our peace 🙂

Where do the apostles teach us to interpret scripture for ourselves? Christ gave us His church to guide us into truth… it is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. The apostles honored Mary and taught us through tradition to pray for her intercession:)
 
I’m asking questions to try and understand why having peace compels you to come here and disapprove of our peace 🙂
That question has already been answered too.🤷
AshleyBelle:
Where do the apostles teach us to interpret scripture for ourselves? Christ gave us His church to guide us into truth… it is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Why do you NOT turn to Mary? The apostles didn’t turn away from her.
I don’t believe they do.

But they do mention how every true and faithful believer is in Jesus, is sealed by the Holy Spirit…and if this be true… then when we humbly make a request…with the Spirit making intercession for us…we can believe that it will be answered according to His Will.

If that request is to be able to understand the bible and test the teachings from any priest/pastor/minister here on earth against it…I believe He will honour that request.

Christ did indeed did give us His church to guide us into truth and it remains to this day the pillar and bulwark of truth - in the spirit of every true and faithful believer where ever they may worship.

They did not turn away from Mary, but they realized her significance and treated it accordingly.

In relation to her role in their teaching and preaching of the gospel message and in their recording of events in the gospel books/epistles - there is no evidence that they considered her important enough or as someone that they or the believers on earth should to turn in times of need.

They always pointed to Jesus.

As to why I do NOT turn to Mary - I don’t need her in that way I guess…as I said, Jesus has always been right there and has supplied all my needs+, according to His Will.🙂

Ephesians Chap.1 V11-23

11 In whom we also are called by lot, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will. (the apostles)
12 That we may be unto the praise of his glory, we who before hoped Christ:
13 **In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation) in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise, **
14 Who is the pledge of our inheritance, unto the redemption of acquisition, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, hearing of your faith that is in the Lord Jesus, and of your love towards all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making commemoration of you in my prayers,
17 **That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation, in the knowledge of him: **
18 **The eyes of your heart enlightened, that you may know what the hope is of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power towards us, who believe according to the operation of the might of his power, **20 Which he wrought in Christ, raising him up from the dead, and setting him on his right hand in the heavenly places.
21 **Above all principality, and power, and virtue, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come. **
22 And he hath subjected all things under his feet, and hath made him head over all the church,
23 Which is his body, and the fulness of him who is filled all in all.

(time for dinner!!!)
 
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Leeann; G****uanophore; AshleyBelle:Mercygate; Sandusky


**I am new does the OP mean anything? I notice everyone just say what they want? **

**Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him …Mary or Jesus? **

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MARY!

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😛 lolol - Thanks for reminding us!
 
We’ve said that… because we don’t believe it’s possible to point to Mary without pointing to her Son:)

But for some reason this thread won’t die:shrug:
 
AshleyBelle;4385252]We’ve said that… because we don’t believe it’s possible to point to Mary without pointing to her Son:)
Why would it not be possible? What would you say if I said Caiaphas the high priest points you also to Jesus?
But for some reason this thread won’t die:shrug:
 
Why would it not be possible? What would you say if I said Caiaphas the high priest points you also to Jesus?
I would say Caiaphas the high priest was not immaculately concieved to be a perfect vessle for our Lord. Nor was He handed to us by Christ Himself as the mother of all Christians.

I would also say, the church does not tell us to pray to caiphus 🙂
 
We’ve said that… because we don’t believe it’s possible to point to Mary without pointing to her Son:)

But for some reason this thread won’t die:shrug:
Maybe Mary is trying to tell us something.
 
Even the wrong aren’t wrong all the time, but only when they don’t line up with scripture.
This sounds more like the modern post reformation step children to me. :yup: :yup: :yup:

Case in point…the fundamental error of Sola Scriptura…but that’s another thread topic.
 
Really? And just where precisely in the Bible did He do that again?
What does Luther have to do with this?
Nothing, unless you want to deal with people who messed with the Bible and created false doctrines that are still deceiving people 500 years later.🤷
Limiting it to the topic of this thread, ISTM that’s right.
Based upon that you have just indicted the Reformers and all their step children.
Men are not infallible.
Unless of course they are guided by the Holy Spirit and in the line of apostolic succession that Christ Himself and the apostles established.
Men are not infallible, so yes, that’s a reasonable proposition.
You can’t even say this unless you are willing to accept the Deuterocanonicals as inspired scripture. The mental gymnastics begin right about here to accept post reformation theology. Here we begin to give lip service to the inspiration of the scriptures and their supposed ultimate authority, when what he really means is the authority of his (or whoever’s) modern interpretation of men, which is anything but the same thing.
What does Luther have to do with this?
You remember 1517 don’tcha? Luther decides that he knows better than the church and every apostle and scholar for the previous 1500 years, tinkers with his translation of the Bible and proceeds to introduce new winds of doctrines of men that have messed up billions of people since and continue to do so today.

Nice going Luther…:rolleyes:
Obviously not, but even those in error, by God’s will, get some things right (Jn 11:49-52).
Yep a further description of the post reformation step children and their teaching today.
**
“Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.”**
Good question.
For which you have neither the authority or the answer. Just examining the fruit of that thinking and theology shows why the modern theology of the Reformers and their step children is dead wrong. Thousands of denominations and “non-denominations”, all claiming to preach the truth and the gospel, and yet officially teaching and preaching such a wide diversity of beliefs and theologies that they can’t agree with each other…much less with the Catholic Church.
What does Luther have to do with this?
A “wonderful” example (:whistle: ) of the joys and successes of new winds of errant doctrines of men and their cascading errors (fruit) of it. 🤷
 

The difference is Paul never told them to pray to/through or commune with these individuals or to any other ‘saints’ that were in heaven as a way to build up their faith or as a way to ‘tap’ into any special graces. None of the Apostles ever did. However they did exhort and point them to Jesus in times of need.

Of course Hebrews 12
mentions Jesus’ example to follow.I’m glad you brought that passage up, because it is one of the best cases for the communion and intercession of saints.
The Intercession & Communion of Saints
 
I am thinking that one would need better skills and intellect to succeed in an atheistic forum. It is much more comfortable and satisfying to remain a gadfly here, and play the game of sending Catholics on useless theological goose chases. It must be very gratifying to lie in wait for new members that are not familiar with the game, and send them running for information that will never be used. 🤷
Hey, they gotta get their practice in apologetics in too y’know. They’re gonna encounter all this jive on their own from time to time and in the long run I’m glad they faced this stuff here because all JA4 & sandusky and Leeann do is sharpen their skills, so that ultimately, their arguments here work against their own cause.

That’s how it worked with me!
Actually I think Manny’s excellent skills and references are much better applied on threads where people are asking genuine questions, and will have eternal benefit from what they learn from him.
Manny does just fine. He’s come a VERY LONG way since he first got on CAF and seems to improve noticeably every time I see one of his posts. He also knows that if he needs me, I’ve got his back in a flash, just as I do yours. 😃
It is not right for him to cast his pearls before swine. 😉
Don’t think I would’ve gone there though. These folks are not swine…they’re people just like us…

If and when they turn on me and try to tear me, then I’ll deal with 'em and say, http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/thbye.gif
 
Hey, they gotta get their practice in apologetics in too y’know. They’re gonna encounter all this jive on their own from time to time and in the long run I’m glad they faced this stuff here because all JA4 & sandusky and Leeann do is sharpen their skills, so that ultimately, their arguments here work against their own cause.

That’s how it worked with me!
Manny does just fine. He’s come a VERY LONG way since he first got on CAF and seems to improve noticeably every time I see one of his posts. He also knows that if he needs me, I’ve got his back in a flash, just as I do yours. 😃
Don’t think I would’ve gone there though. These folks are not swine…they’re people just like us…

If and when they turn on me and try to tear me, then I’ll deal with 'em and say, http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/thbye.gif
So to whom would the Apostles advise the Pope to turn too…Mary or Jesus? 🍿
 
Well, for me personally, I’ve been trusting and believing in the Lord for a long time now and always go humbly in prayer in His name, asking that God’s truth will be revealed to me by the leading of the Holy Spirit - even if it is something that I may not want to know - (He knows me better than I do
…) - and I ask that He enable me to apply it to my life according to His Will.Better watch out for that prayer. If you mean what you just said, and are here posting at CAF then there’s a serious chance that that in itself is an answer to prayer. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/emo-banana.gif
 
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