Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him ..Mary or Jesus?

[bud02]

Welcome to the forums

 And  before you post scripture to "prove" our faith wrong, please bear in mind that you are using the very scripture that the church you are refuting gave you :)

If the RC Church claims to have GIVEN US THE GOD inspired word why do you not follow it? And why do you change it?

Just what did you do with the 2nd commandment.

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

According to the Bible your faith is wrong.
Perhaps you should listen to Jesus.

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

 

[Leeann]

Originally Posted by Leeann ….such as the “Catholic church” is necessary for salvation…the Apostles and Jesus never taught this…that the “Catholic church” is His one true church….they never taught this

If you read any of the gospels,epistles,books of the N.T. where they lay out and establish the early churches and preach and teach the gospel message - do you see ANY resemblance at all with the Catholic church as it progressed throught the centuries - right from the priests, to the monks, to the nuns, to the way the “sacraments” are performed - to the ‘political’ involvements throughout history, to the wealth, to the ‘rituals’ …and to the Marian Theology…any resemblance?

AshleyBelle:
Leeann, were you still YOU when you were a baby?

Hi AshleyBelle

Are you implying that even though a lot of the things that have been incorporated into the Catholic Church’s belief system as it has grown over the years and have made it unrecognizable as the church that the Apostles first established….still remains the same “true” church of Jesus Christ?

-or-

Are you saying that the Catholic Church has changed and is not the same at the church that the Apostles originally established?

 

[AshleyBelle]

He then says come to me not go to Mary or some other saint

 Again, we are the Family of God :)  I can't find in my Bible where it says "not to Mary or the other saints" can you please help me find this passage?

I think you would benefit buy supporting your claim from the bible.
Show me a verse where someone prays to a dead saint.

The communion of saints is made of all the believers who are ALIVE in Christ! Every bit of Christ is shared by every part of the body. We are the Body of Christ, all the faithful of His church.

“None of us lives to himself. And none of us dies to himself.” Rom 14:7 “If we live, we live for the Lord. If we die, we die for the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.”

“if one member suffers, all suffer together.” “If one member is honored, all rejoice together”

“now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.” 1 Cor 12: 26-27

 We can share our prayers to Christ with all the faithful, both in heaven and on earth. Christ is the head of the church, we are His body!  We do not pray to the dead, we pray to the living, we pray WITH the living, to Christ! Our prayers are united, our sufferings are united, and our faith is united:)

“in this solidarity with all men, living or dead, the least of our acts done in charity redowns to the profit of all.” (CCC)

If the RC Church claims to have GIVEN US THE GOD inspired word why do you not follow it? And why do you change it?

Just what did you do with the 2nd commandment.

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

According to the Bible your faith is wrong.
Perhaps you should listen to Jesus.

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Please show me what the Catholic church has changed from the Word of God. You will find nothing in scripture which contradicts Christ’s church, nor will you find anything within Christ’s church contradicting Scripture. It is a PROMISE of our Lord!

We do not bow down and worship graven images. We use statues, icons, art, crucifixes, and cathedrals to direct our thoughts towards heaven. When we bow to genuflect before the mass, we are acknowledging Christ present within us! When we bow to pray before a statue of our Lady, we are honoring her as Christ who perfectly honored His mother. Please, I highly recommend you visit the library section here at CAF before you make assumptions about what is “wrong” in our faith

 

[AshleyBelle]

Hi AshleyBelle

Are you implying that even though a lot of the things that have been incorporated into the Catholic Church’s belief system as it has grown over the years and have made it unrecognizable as the church that the Apostles first established….still remains the same “true” church of Jesus Christ?

-or-

Are you saying that the Catholic Church has changed and is not the same at the church that the Apostles originally established?

That’s a good question, Leeann

But my analogy is to illustrate that though you have grown and developed through your life, you are still Leeann. You have learned and developed emotionally. You have been taught and come to your understanding of what you believe, your whole life. When you were a child, you did not understand the gospel as clearly as you do now.

The church has not changed, nor has it “added” to the Word of God She has grown in understanding ,she has grown in devotion, and she has grown in visibility! In infancy, the church still looked similar to the way it does now, just as if you were to look at your baby pictures, you would still see a face that was very clearly YOURS, only younger

We had the sacraments, and we had authority. We had the message of Christ, and after a couple hundred years of SPEAKING, teaching, and living the faith through traditions, the council came together and with the guidance of the holy spirit was able to give us the holy scriptures
The church today is still the church of the apostles. There is not a single teaching or doctrine you will find that goes against what Christ revealed to us, what the apostles learned from Christ, or what Scriptures reveal. The Church is the body of Christ. The Church triumphant, the church suffering, and the church militant:)

 

[Leeann]

**Originally Posted by Leeann **
If you read any of the gospels,epistles,books of the N.T. where they lay out and establish the early churches and preach and teach the gospel message - do you see ANY resemblance at all with the Catholic church as it progressed throught the centuries - right from the priests, to the monks, to the nuns, to the way the “sacraments” are performed - to the ‘political’ involvements throughout history, to the wealth, to the ‘rituals’ …and to the Marian Theology…any resemblance?

**reggie: **
You claimed that Jesus and the apostles “never taught” that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation.

They didn’t….in fact they never taught that “any” particular church was necessary for salvation…they taught that belief and repentance and faith in Jesus, His birth, His life, His death, His resurrection…in His blood sacrifice, were necessary for salvation.

Any other gospel message that differed from that was warned against.
The Apostles laid out the way the churches were to deal with issues that arose amongst their people and what positions were to be set in place within each church.

reggie:
You haven’t given proof for that statement.

Responded in Post # 148 – see below

*Originally Posted by Leeann ….such as the “Catholic church” is necessary for salvation…the Apostles and Jesus never taught this…that the “Catholic church” is His one true church….they never taught this *

Post #147 Reggie
I would like to see your proof for that statement (the bold parts).

Post #148 Leeann

**by reggieM **
I would like to see your proof for that statement (the bold parts).

If you read any of the gospels,epistles,books of the N.T. where they lay out and establish the early churches and preach and teach the gospel message - do you see ANY resemblance at all with the Catholic church as it progressed throught the centuries - right from the priests, to the monks, to the nuns, to the way the “sacraments” are performed - to the ‘political’ involvements throughout history, to the wealth, to the ‘rituals’ …and to the Marian Theology…any resemblance? __________________

Reggie:
Apparently, you think everything that Jesus taught can be found in the Bible.

Leeann:
I have never posted that or claimed that….that is an assumption on your part.

However, with regards to the salvation of all mankind….it is all found in the bible.

When Jesus sent out the Apostles to establish the churches – do you think He sent them out with an “incomplete teaching”? He didn’t neglect anything, the complete, necessary information that was given back then is the same as it is today…for everyone…whether they are members of the Catholic Church or not.

reggie:
I’d like to see your proof for that also (since you couldn’t show any proof for the first thing I asked). That is, that everything that Jesus and the apostles taught is found in the Bible.

Here’s the first think you asked, and the response I posted below - unless I have missed one?

Post #133 Reggie
I would like to see your proof for that statement.

Originally Posted by Leeann
….such as the “Catholic church” is necessary for salvation…the Apostles and Jesus never taught this…that the “Catholic church” is His one true church….they never taught this….

Leeann Post #144

www.vatican website
Catechsim of the Catholic Church
Part One

The Profession of Faith

Article 9 – I Believe in the Holy Catholic Church

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

**846 **How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter

 

[AshleyBelle]

T
Leeann Post #144

www.vatican website
Catechsim of the Catholic Church
Part One

The Profession of Faith

Article 9 – I Believe in the Holy Catholic Church

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

**846 **How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter

First, notice that it says this affirmation is often "repeated by the church fathers."   Do you know who the church fathers are? I'll assume you do, because you've not shown any reason for anybody here to think you are ignorant.

But have you really thought about WHO they are, beyond just knowing? These were the men who heard the gospel, were taught the gospel, straight from the apostles! The things they learned, and the things they taught were all used in consideration by the council of bishops when the official cannon of scripture was compiled!

Now... to say "there is no salvation outside the church" is absolutely true.  That is because Christ, is the HEAD of the church! The church is Christ's body. What is Christ, without the body? We cannot be connected to Christ without the church.

So does that mean we think there’s no salvation for protestants or anyone who isn’t catholic?
No!
It means that we HAVE salvation, because Christ gave us the church, because Christ connected us as His body…we share in the suffering of Christ.
Now that we have been united to the cross from His work on the Cross, salvation is available and offered for the whole world! Without this connection, without the church, there can be no salvation because there would be no body, we would all be scattered and dis-unified.
Salvation is still OFFERED outside of the church, BECAUSE of the church

2 Pet. 1: By which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape the corruption that is in the world, which is passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.

 

[bud02]

Welcome to the forums

Thank you for sharing these passages from sacred scripture! It is one of the three pillars of our faith! Scripture, illuminated by the light of the holy spirit through tradition and the authority of Christ’s church

through tradition and the authority
Leaves a pretty big loop hole that can only be closed by testing the spirits by the Word of God. The Church is not divided but of one mine Christ.

Acts 17:10-15
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

 

[AshleyBelle]

through tradition and the authority
Leaves a pretty big loop hole that can only be closed by testing the spirits by the Word of God. The Church is not divided but of one mine Christ.

Acts 17:10-15
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Do you believe Christ lied when He established His church on earth? Do you believe the Bible is in error when it says the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?

When we hear something, we absolutely test it agains the scriptures! And if we interpret something from the scriptures that goes against church teaching or tradition we know that our interpretation is false. If somebody has a 'revelation" from God that we should all stand on our heads every monday morning at 7:22 and then dance around, we would test it against scripture, authority and tradition and realize they were NOT inspired by God.
The church may not teach and will not teach against scripture, just as scripture will never contradict the teaching of the church

Like a three legged stool, TRUTH rests on the legs of scripture, tradtion, and magesterium. If you take one away, you cannot verify the others, they hold each other in balance. Take two away and you’re left with too much room for error. All are equally true, equally innerent, equally protected by the holy spirit. None can stand alone.

Like the triune God; Father, Son, and Holy spirit all in One God. So is the Church. Scripture, tradition, and magesterium all together, one faith.

 

[Leeann]

AshleyBelle:

Ok Leeann I thought about your question a little more

Let’s say we could time-warp back to the apostles.

We stand, as an audience, and we see the pope imploring the apostles. He asks them to POINT, “to whom shall we turn?”

And I believe with confidence I can say, Mary.

Why? Because Jesus, when he was crucified, said to the woman "Woman, behold, your son. And then gazing at his apostles, He said “behold, your mother.”

(Jesus addressed one Apostle who was standing by Mary His mother, Mary Magdelene and Mary’s sister.)

They would point to Mary, because after Christ ascended into heaven, Mary was still with them, pointing to her son!

But they didn’t - in any times that are recorded after Jesus ascended into heaven, they pointed to Jesus/God……not to Mary.

Yes, but we are not time- warping….this happened just this month….in real time….and now both Mary and Jesus are in heaven……to whom would the Apostles point too?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[MerickOWA]

But they didn’t - in any times that are recorded after Jesus ascended into heaven, they pointed to Jesus/God……not to Mary.

Yes, but we are not time- warping….this happened just this month….in real time….and now both Mary and Jesus are in heaven……to whom would the Apostles point too?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Is the scripture against us asking saints and or mary to pray for us? I’m having difficulting finding the Bible passage which prohibits us from asking our brothers and sisters in Christ to help us.

 

[AshleyBelle]

But they didn’t - in any times that are recorded after Jesus ascended into heaven, they pointed to Jesus/God……not to Mary.

Yes, but we are not time- warping….this happened just this month….in real time….and now both Mary and Jesus are in heaven……to whom would the Apostles point too?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 You realize, that while they were recording and teaching what Christ proclaimed, they were praying and living with Mary still among them :)  Just as we now pray WITH Mary, our prayers united through the communion of saints!  
 
 Our blessed Mother continues to lead us to Christ. She continues to point the way, to tell us "Do whatever He tells You." She teaches us to love Christ, to obey and to serve Him:)

“Hail Mary, full of Grace! Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” Is not just a Catholic prayer, it is the greeting directly from the Angel Gabriel! We honor Christ’s mother because we emulate Christ.

The pope and the apostles would implore mary, as our advocate because they are saying "we are so little, if not even your Mother who loves you more than we are capable of loving will help us find you, to whom will we turn?

Let me ask, who helped you find Christ? Was it a friend, a pastor? You may say “God.” Or “the Holy Spirit led me” which is true! But you must also recognize that God works through people, we are his servants, his instruments! So, who helped lead you to Christ?

Would you say they led you to Christ, because they LOVE Christ?

Do you think they love Christ more than His own mother, who lived and suffered with Him? “Your own heart, a sword will pierce.”
If we cannot turn to Mary, who loved Christ so much, to help lead us to Him, then to whom will we turn?

 

[bud02]

Again, we are the Family of God I can’t find in my Bible where it says “not to Mary or the other saints” can you please help me find this passage?

I have shown you the model Jesus left us. To pray to Him.
Your referance to Rom 14:7 and 1 Cor 12: 26-27
Prove nothing about praying to Mary or reference the dead in Christ. You see what you choose to see, the blind leading the blind both shall fall into a hole.
The Bible also does not say to not pray to Micky Mouse does that make it OK?

Please show me what the Catholic church has changed from the Word of God. You will find nothing in scripture which contradicts Christ’s church, nor will you find anything within Christ’s church contradicting Scripture. It is a PROMISE of our Lord!

We do not bow down and worship graven images. We use statues, icons, art, crucifixes, and cathedrals to direct our thoughts towards heaven. When we bow to genuflect before the mass, we are acknowledging Christ present within us! When we bow to pray before a statue of our Lady, we are honoring her as Christ who perfectly honored His mother. Please, I highly recommend you visit the library section here at CAF before you make assumptions about what is “wrong” in our faith

If you dont know that the Catholic church dropped the second commandment you are very uninformed. And what part of this do you not understand:
Your faith in the RC Church does not pass the test of the word of God.

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

When we bow to genuflect before the mass, we are acknowledging Christ present within us!

Most common Protestant listing:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet

Latin Catholic listing:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

The dead sea scrolls prove that the RC church seen fit to remove what the finger of God wrote. Then teach the lost to bow down to the image.

 

[bud02]

Is the scripture against us asking saints and or mary to pray for us? I’m having difficulting finding the Bible passage which prohibits us from asking our brothers and sisters in Christ to help us.

Will you also pray to Micky and Donald
Whats the difference when you add to the Bible?

 

[bud02]

Do you believe Christ lied when He established His church on earth? Do you believe the Bible is in error when it says the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?

I believe that Christ Church is alive and well on earth, but the Bible tells me its not the RC Church. quite the contrary it tells me that it is the little horn, the great harlot drunk on the blood of the saints.

Papal system of the Roman Catholic Church. The following are the many identifiable characteristics:

1. It will rise to be a great power after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire (after 476 A.D.)
2. It will be a geographically small nation (a little horn). (Dan 7:8)
3. It will rule over many people, nations, and tongues (it will be universal). (Rev 13:7)
4. It will be headquartered in the city of seven hills, Rome.
5. It will be a religio-political entity - a political city-state ruled by a priest-king.
6. Its priest-king will make great and blasphemous claims. (Rev 13:1, 6)
7. It will claim authority over all kings. (Rev 17:18)
8. It will claim its power to change the holy times and laws of God as its mark of authority. (Dan 7:25)
9. It will be an apostate church that makes the nations drink her cup of apostate doctrine. (Rev 14:8)
10. It will be a “mother” harlot church, with apostate daughters coming from her. (Rev 17:5)
11. It will be a persecuting power, killing the faithful saints of Jesus Christ as heretics. (Rev 13:7)
12. It will hold power and authority for 1260 years following the fall of pagan Rome.
13. It will suffer a deadly wound that will end 1260 years of dominance and persecution.
14. It will be revived after the deadly wound, and all the world would wonder at its revival. (Rev

Her rain was from 538 Ad to 1798 AD
538 Justinian decree went into effect. Making the Pope “Head of all Holy Churches”
1798 Berthier, Napoleons General removed Pius VI ring and put him in prison where he died. Ending 1260 years of a false christian church. But the wound healed.

It will claim its power to change the holy times and laws of God as its mark of authority. (Dan 7:25)
What did you do with that 2nd command?

 

[bud02]

We saw earlier that Daniel 7:25 says that this beast power would change the law of God. Did the Roman Catholic Church change God’s law and so meet this criteria? Does the Pope believe he can change the law of God?

“The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth…” — Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.

“We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God…dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority…I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.” — Decretales Domini Gregori ix Translatione Episcoporum, (on the Transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205 (while Innocent III was Pope).

 

[bud02]

Daniel 7 reveals an Old Testement description of the Antichrist power. It clearly predicts that the beast would attempt to change both God’s laws and times. The papacy has tried to change God’s laws by:

1. omitting the second commandment against veneration of images.
2. shortening the forth commandment from 94 words to just 8 in order to avoid mentioning which day is the Sabbath
3. dividing the tenth commandment into two commandments.

The papacy attempted to change God’s times by:

1. teaching people to recognize the first day of the week as the sabbath instead of the seventh day.
2. adopting the pagan Roman practice of beginning each day at midnight instead of sundown.

Please I pray:
(Rev 18:4-5 NIV) Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; {5} for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

 

[Good_Fella]

I believe that Christ Church is alive and well on earth, but the Bible tells me its not the RC Church. quite the contrary it tells me that it is the little horn, the great harlot drunk on the blood of the saints.

Papal system of the Roman Catholic Church. The following are the many identifiable characteristics:

1. It will rise to be a great power after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire (after 476 A.D.)
2. It will be a geographically small nation (a little horn). (Dan 7:8)
3. It will rule over many people, nations, and tongues (it will be universal). (Rev 13:7)
4. It will be headquartered in the city of seven hills, Rome.
5. It will be a religio-political entity - a political city-state ruled by a priest-king.
6. Its priest-king will make great and blasphemous claims. (Rev 13:1, 6)
7. It will claim authority over all kings. (Rev 17:18)
8. It will claim its power to change the holy times and laws of God as its mark of authority. (Dan 7:25)
9. It will be an apostate church that makes the nations drink her cup of apostate doctrine. (Rev 14:8)
10. It will be a “mother” harlot church, with apostate daughters coming from her. (Rev 17:5)
11. It will be a persecuting power, killing the faithful saints of Jesus Christ as heretics. (Rev 13:7)
12. It will hold power and authority for 1260 years following the fall of pagan Rome.
13. It will suffer a deadly wound that will end 1260 years of dominance and persecution.
14. It will be revived after the deadly wound, and all the world would wonder at its revival. (Rev

Her rain was from 538 Ad to 1798 AD
538 Justinian decree went into effect. Making the Pope “Head of all Holy Churches”
1798 Berthier, Napoleons General removed Pius VI ring and put him in prison where he died. Ending 1260 years of a false christian church. But the wound healed.

It will claim its power to change the holy times and laws of God as its mark of authority. (Dan 7:25)
What did you do with that 2nd command?

Are you serious?

 

[mercygate]

**Leeann:/**U]
I “high lighted” the wrong words – I meant to high light the “again”.

Well…it is the Catholic church’s own paper trail, isn’t it. It is the ONLY paper trail. It is also shared by the Churches of the East. It is the common thread of the faith, including the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament and writings that date from the 80s of the First Century. The writings are a very strong witness to the early Church.

Could you restate that another way….what doctrine are you referring to here, in relation to the quote of mine you posted….sorry…I just can’t see it. Thanks

 

[utunumsint]

I know He is interested in a personal relationship *first and foremost *with only you, once that’s in affect, it will be up to you to decide how much communion you feel is necessary with other believers, whether they be saints living here on earth or in heaven, to meet those ‘needs’ that you described in your previous post.

I disagree with this assessment. I think he is intensly interested in our loving our neighbour. So much so that he associates himself with the poor and says that if we neglect them, we neglect him. How much more necessary then is it for us to pray for our neighbours, for their sanctification, for their good? How much more should we, as the poor in spirit go to those who are rich in spirit, to help us improve our relationship with Christ?

Put it this way, if we can cause “One of these little ones to fall away from the faith” and Christ curses those who do this with the words, “it would be better that one such as this should have a loadstone tide around their neck and thrown into the sea.” then how much more should we praise those who strengthen our faith, who are not a source of scandal, who direct us on the right path!!! Christ does not operate alone!!!

God bless,
Ut

 

[AshleyBelle]

Please I pray:
(Rev 18:4-5 NIV) Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; {5} for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

 First, it appears that the father of lies has filled your heart with deceit about Christ's church on earth.  No one on these forums will be able to pull you out of that darkness, only God.

Nothing I say is going to matter to you, because you will only read what you want to read from what follows.

First, I will point you to some links, mostly from the Library here as I have already encouraged you to study about our faith, and not just what others falsely believe about our faith.

After that, I will try to address some of your key “concerns” but I doubt you will listen.

Brother in Christ, why do you hurt the body of Christ? Your Catholic brothers and sisters live their devotion to our Lord in ways that you do not understand, so you resort to condemning them? Are you afraid of what you do not understand? Did you know that we believe Christ is present among us in every mass? Did you know that we continue to worship the Lord as He commanded us, in true, perfect worship? Did you know that the truth of the Catholic church has not waivered for over 2000 years?

Here are some links, and I cannot emphasize enough how much I believe you should with a sincere heart read through them, and pray to understand what you can learn from them.

God bless you! And I pray that you can overcome the multitude of lies you’ve been fed about our faith.
“Anti Catholicism” Links
catholic.com/library/anti_catholicism.asp

“The True Ten Commandments”

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp