"Praying in Tongues"...is it O.K. during Mass ?

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Freeway4321:
Yeah the “charismatic” thing id disapointing. How much more Catholicity must we lose? I have no problem with intense heartfelt preaching. But I need not see any “charismatic” over emotional let’s catter to the people who are lacking a mature attention span… stuff.
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Hmmm,
Would you be so kind as to re-write this post so we know what you are talking about???
I would love to provide an answer but I cannot seem to understand.
 
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robertaf:
Hmmm,
Would you be so kind as to re-write this post so we know what you are talking about???
I would love to provide an answer but I cannot seem to understand.
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Haha. Not sure what you’re missing… but I will correct some errors.

“Yeah the “charismatic” movement is disapointing. How much more Catholicity must we lose? I have no problem with intense heartfelt preaching. But I need not see any charismatic over emotional let’s cater to the people who are lacking a mature attention span… stuff.”
 
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Freeway4321:
Haha. Not sure what you’re missing… but I will correct some errors.

“Yeah the “charismatic” movement is disapointing. How much more Catholicity must we lose? I have no problem with intense heartfelt preaching. But I need not see any charismatic over emotional let’s cater to the people who are lacking a mature attention span… stuff.”
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Great! Thank you!
OK, lets take it sentence by sentence.
First off, I would like to know how much experience and knowledge you have of the Charismatic Renewal. I have had almost 35 years in the Renewal, in Leadership and teaching.
How are you dissapointed? How did the Renewal dissapoint you?
How have we lost Catholicity?
First of all, the Charisms were part of the early Church and considered Catholic for quite some time.
The Charismatic Renewal today, leads folks closer to the Sacraments, in deeper obedience to Holy Mother Church and into a closer service in the works of the Church.
You mention emotion. Yes, the Renewal also tunes up our emotions. We fall in Love with Jesus, over and over and over again.
Have you experienced human love? Does it touch your emotions? What person in love is not deeply emotional, what parent does not almost weep with emotion over their child, what son or daughter does not experience emotions with the love they feel for their parents. Yes, we do get emotional, I certainly hope so.
Mature attention span? I am pushing 70, have been a Catholic for 50 years. I spend 3 to 4 hours in prayer every day, also in scripture. I have spent hours in a week teaching and praying with people. What do you call a mature attention span?

Please add more to your debate. I look forward to answering you.
 
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sconea:
Isn’t speaking in unknown tongues also a sign of possession?
That’s what spooks me about it.
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Thats not the same thing. If someone from the US who only knows English starts speaking ancient Aramaic while there television floats around the room thats a sign of possession.

If someone starts mumbling what (sounds) like jiberish in Church thats speaking in tongues. Just my 2 cents but if someone is using a gift from God in a way that freaks people out… they are not using good judgement. St. Pio had the stigmata yet he had a clue as well and put some gloves on.

-D
 
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robertaf:
Great! Thank you!
OK, lets take it sentence by sentence.
First off, I would like to know how much experience and knowledge you have of the Charismatic Renewal. I have had almost 35 years in the Renewal, in Leadership and teaching.
How are you dissapointed? How did the Renewal dissapoint you?
How have we lost Catholicity?
First of all, the Charisms were part of the early Church and considered Catholic for quite some time.
The Charismatic Renewal today, leads folks closer to the Sacraments, in deeper obedience to Holy Mother Church and into a closer service in the works of the Church.
You mention emotion. Yes, the Renewal also tunes up our emotions. We fall in Love with Jesus, over and over and over again.
Have you experienced human love? Does it touch your emotions? What person in love is not deeply emotional, what parent does not almost weep with emotion over their child, what son or daughter does not experience emotions with the love they feel for their parents. Yes, we do get emotional, I certainly hope so.
Mature attention span? I am pushing 70, have been a Catholic for 50 years. I spend 3 to 4 hours in prayer every day, also in scripture. I have spent hours in a week teaching and praying with people. What do you call a mature attention span?

Please add more to your debate. I look forward to answering you.
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I figured you were apart of said movement.

I’m a lazy person. Yes it is something i’m working on… so I will try to answer you as general as possible espically because you asked me alot of questions.

My experience with a charismatic movement in the church is very slim. I know the Protestants are big on being charismatic.

I am dissapointed that our former Holy Ecumenical Pontiff John Paul II endorsed it. Although he did warn those who he was speaking to not to get over emotional and not to base there apostoloate on simply emotion.

We might have different views on what “Charismatic” is. So this can be a hard question to answer because of that. A lose in ones Catholicity can result in this charismatic movement because it can move into a realm of say… “Baptist preacher” and making it all about you. Wether you intended it to or not, it is something that easily happens. And that is not Catholic at all, Catholics have always had those with zeal, intensity, and so forth that have done great things for the church. So it goes back to what one means by “charismatic”.

Have I experienced human love? That… I have. And I have no problem with people being emotional because of said love. But it’s getting over emotional and losing control of ones emotions that is a problem.

I think you are taking this the wrong way… I am not questioning your commitment and love for Our Lord at all, or your personal sanctity.

A mature attention span is something lacking with the modern mind. How many people can sit through a three hour Divine Liturgy? I’d venture to say, not as much as one would think (or hope). It’s the problem I already expressed with the charismatic movement. Are we getting charismatic to cater to those who are lacking in the attention span department, or are we showing our love and zeal for the Lord while keeping our emotions in check and not “losing control”. Which isn’t bad in prayer or if the Holy Spirit is doing something that the saints have expirienced IE ecstasies.

I am concerned with preaching for the sake of getting through to people on a level that is downgrading because it involves an over emotional spectacle.

I have my reservations.
 
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Annunciata:
God love you too! Uuummm…for those who believe no explanation is necessary…for those who do not…no explanation is possible…😉
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Thanks Annunciata,
Fot the Fellowship in the Holy Spirit.

Gusano
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
But weren’t the 11 filled with the Holy Spirit the Apostles?
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YES… The 11 Apostles plus 139 others …
according to Acts 1: 13 and 15.
All of these 150 were filled with The Holy Spirit (Acts 2: 4) …All of them began to express themselves in foreighn tongues
including The Mother of Jesus !
"as The Holy Spirit Prompted them…"

So from that we can see that “As the Holy Spirit PROMPTS.” is the secret.

The “others” between verses 5 and 13 of Acts 2: were not filled with The Spirit…but they saw it happen, and heard words in their own languages.
After Peter explained …( Acts 2: 14-41 ) 3000 from among the skeptics and scoffers were transformed from mockers to BELIEVERS… and the Church began to grow !

It is only the Power of the Holy Spirit at work IN US
that will cause the Church to grow in TRUTH …and get us through this mess we are in today.

If one jumps ( presumes ) ahead of the Holy Spirit…no telling WHAT he will get.

I am sure the deceiver is waiting around to jump into someone’s mind and spirit,
who is not willing to WAIT UPON THE LORD.
and pretend all kinds of weird manifestations claiming to be “of the spirit” .
It is “of the spirit” all right, …
but it is just not of the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

gusano
 
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MrS:
Personally I feel there may be some current evidence (little) of tongues. The majority of events are just individuals caught up in wishful thinking.

I will rethink my humble opinion if enough posters (or perhaps only one) post in tongues and I can understand what they are saying.
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You will make a Truer and Deeper progress if you read prayerfully The Acts of The Apostles plus the Gospels where Jesus
gives His Promises of Sending us The Gift of God.
The Holy Spirit.

gusano
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I could do a prayer in tongues on Babelfish for you, if you like.🙂
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I am sure you could.

But could you include evidence that it was Prompted by the Holy Spirit ?

Remember…
There is only ONE Holy Spirit,
But there are countless evil spirits who enjoy mocking and twisting
what The Holy Spirit has in store for us.

you can learn about this in 1 Cor. 2: 6 through 16.

gusano
 
It does seem just a tad strange to me that the whole speaking in tongues aspect in the Catholic Church did not appear until the late 1960’s. Absolutely amazing. The Protestants had been so gifted since around 1900. I guess we got overlooked for a long time. Just amazing. Oh well, I guess better late than never huh? 👍
 
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gusano:
So from that we can see that "As the Holy Spirit PROMPTS." is the secret.

The “others” between verses 5 and 13 of Acts 2: were not filled with The Spirit…but they saw it happen, and heard words in their own languages.
After Peter explained …( Acts 2: 14-41 ) 3000 from among the skeptics and scoffers were transformed from mockers to BELIEVERS… and the Church began to grow !

It is only the Power of the Holy Spirit at work IN US
that will cause the Church to grow in TRUTH …and get us through this mess we are in today.

If one jumps ( presumes ) ahead of the Holy Spirit…no telling WHAT he will get.

I am sure the deceiver is waiting around to jump into someone’s mind and spirit,
who is not willing to WAIT UPON THE LORD.
and pretend all kinds of weird manifestations claiming to be “of the spirit” .
It is “of the spirit” all right, …
but it is just not of the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

gusano
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I have to begin this with, I do not doubt that you are speaking in tongues.
But could you please define, “waiting upon the Lord”
 
Do it privately if you wish.
  1. But loud charismatic worshipping is not part of the liturgy, and hence should not be included, as per prohibitions in the GIRM.
  2. Lex orandi, lex credendi. The whole point of the Mass is the re-presentation of the Passion, Death, Resurrection, and Ascension of Christ. Would you scream in tougues at the foot of the cross? At the door of the tomb? Upon seeing Christ ascend? Because all that occurs at Mass, and the Mass is geared to make these realities clear. If we need to “enhance” the Mass, then what are we saying? Again, lex orandi, lex credendi.
  3. The Holy Spirit can indeed touch people, but at Mass, he has more important things to do than manifest strange tongues, such as:
“Let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Roman Missal, EP II).

For me, that beats everything, and no charismatic expressions are required. Just awed and reverent silence.
 
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robertaf:
I always pray in Tongues during Mass. If you were sitting next to me, you would not know it because I do it silently.
What language? That is none of your concern. It is between me and God.

I am continually amazed by the folks who know nothing whatsoever about the Charismatic Renewal, who have so many opinions.
I might add, that most of them are wrong, too.
There have been all sorts of posts here in this forum. You ask questions you do not have the least interest to know the answers to, because you believe you know it all. You know who I mean.

If you are the least interested in what the American Bishops have to say, I would suggest you read here.
ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/nonattributed/US_Bishops_001.html

The truth is, I already know that your opinion outweighs the Bishops and the Holy Fathers.

What more can be said?

Yeah, I know. I do not sound very charitable. Mostly I am just weary of this sillyness.
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My “sillyness” comes from my own experience growing up Pentecostal and being involved in the Charismatic movement*. If there was any sillyness going on, it was in those movements. However, my experience is only with Protestant Pentecostals/Charismatics. I have had no experience with Charismatic Catholics.

What I would like to know is, where in Scripture, Tradition or the Church Fathers is the modern “Charismatic” movement in the Church defended?

*Here is an example of the sillyness I am talking about. I was once an usher for a woman evangelist who came to our town. She was talking about her experience of speaking in tongues for the first time. She had heard about speaking in tongues and had asked for the gift. She was a new Christian. One day she was taking a bath with candles lit all around the tub and she wondered how she could speak in tongues. All she thought to do was say “Yabba Dabba Do” like Fred Flintstone. Soon she was speaking in tongues. Now that’s silly. Can you imagine that happening in the Upper Room?

Another thing is the business of being slain in the spirit. I once read in an Assembly of God publication that being slain in the spirit is in the Bible. It used as an example, its only example, the time that the soldiers came to arrest Jesus and when He told them who he was, the soldiers all fell backward onto the ground. So, a group of pagans who encounter Jesus, fall down, then get up and arrest him to put him to death; and that is meant to be an example of born again Christians, filled with the Holy Spirit, also falling down and writhing on the floor. Talk about silly. And poor exegesis
 
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marysea:
Gusano,

I honor you for your sincere concern about the appropriateness of using this gift of the Spirit during Mass. Because the focus of the Mass should be on the Word and the Eucharist, anything that might detract from that, or distract others, probably is not suitable.
** Praying in tongues might fall more under a private devotion or something you do with others** in a prayer group.
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Hi marysea,
The Prayer in Tongues, if done properly, ATTRACTS us into the Liturgy rather than “distract”.
Consider how most people pray the “Gloria”, or the “Nicene Creed”…barely audible.
Prayer in tongues while at Worship is less audible than that, …and it is a RESPONSE to what God is "breathing " into us in the Liturgy…like breathing in and breathing out,
in response to God.
This Prayer Language is a Gift of God that draws us more deeply and precisely INTO THE EUCHARIST, while The Eucharist is happening …and not diverting to “other thoughts”.

Prior to this I would come TO THE EUCHARIST… but my mind and heart was almost always somewhere else.
Now He draws me right in behind the “veil”. 😃

**The exception might be if you are at a “charasmatic Mass” and everyone is praying that way, but I don’t know whether or not that’s actually acceptable as part of the rites. **
I don’t see anything wrong with praying in tongues as part of a visit to the Blessed Sacrament, separate from Mass. You might also ask your priest, if he seems a wise man, what he thinks of people praying in tongues during Mass, maybe there are guidelines in the Rubrics.

As we can see from the variety of interesting responses to your post, simply the idea of “praying in tongues” seems to have many interpretations and associations for people, which shows it’s not a gift to be used lightly.
If someone has been given that ability, he also havs to use discernment and sensitivity about how to exercise it.
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It is my belief that if we ALLOWED The Holy Spirit to LEAD us into the EUCHARIST as He would like to…“He would lead us into all the Truth”. (John 16: 13)
"All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." (Romans 8: 14)
He would lead us “through the veil” …
Into The Exodus which Jesus came to set in place for us…
"The New Living Path." ( Luke 9: 31…/ and Heb. 10: 20 )

and I would bet everything I have that God wants all our Liturgies to be “Charismatic Masses,” …That is, Holy Spirit filled and led Masses."

If we look at the List of GIFTS the Spirit has available for us in 1 Cor. 12: 4-11 we see that ** The Gift of Discernment** is in there.

I am also convinced that "No one can come to Me unless The Father draws him."
( John 6: 44 , 65 )…which is True about The Liturgy as well.
and that is confirmed by Matt. 11: 25 - 27 …
"What you have hidden from the learned and the clever you have revealed to the merest of children."

God Bless,

gusano
 
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gusano:
So from that we can see that "As the Holy Spirit PROMPTS." is the secret.

The “others” between verses 5 and 13 of Acts 2: were not filled with The Spirit…but they saw it happen, and heard words in their own languages.
After Peter explained …( Acts 2: 14-41 ) 3000 from among the skeptics and scoffers were transformed from mockers to BELIEVERS… and the Church began to grow !

It is only the Power of the Holy Spirit at work IN US
that will cause the Church to grow in TRUTH …and get us through this mess we are in today.

gusano
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That verse is important to me, and as I understand it, important in a real charismatic situation… that someone understand the “language” which the Spirit led person is uttering and they benefit from it.

That is not the case in most “tongue-speaking” events. One claims to be spirit filled… but and no one else receives the Grace anywhere near the event you choose to present from Acts.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I have to begin this with, I do not doubt that you are speaking in tongues.
But could you please define, "waiting upon the Lord"
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When Jesus promised (in Acts 1: 4) To send The Holy Spirit…They waited (9) days and then Pentecost Came.
That means that,
If you and I honestly, sincerely ASK GOD …according to Luke 11: 13 …for THE HOLY SPIRIT,
Then sleep on it
Wait for the Lord to Give to you what He promised, when He is good and ready to…
( he has to test you to see if He can trust you with this Gift)

If the 150 Disciples could wait (9) days, …I am sure we can wait what ever we have to…
to" get womped" 😃

to Wait upon the Lord is not too much different than “to wait for your income tax refund”
except that THE LORD IS THE LORD and
tax refund is tax refund !

"Let us keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, the author and finisher of our Faith." ( Heb. 12: 2 )

gusano
 
Are speaking in tongues and praying in tongues the same thing?

I thought not.

I would think that for someone to “speak” in tongues during Mass, in the sense of causing an outburst that distracts others, would be wrong.

but I see nothing wrong with a person praying in tongues, which is just the spirit moving through them, and speaking to God in a language or sounds which God understands. This is not distracting being private.

Praying in tongues (topic of this thread) does not require an interpreter as it is just between the praying person and God. That seems appropriate for Mass or any other time.

cheddar
 
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