"Praying in Tongues"...is it O.K. during Mass ?

[Michael_Welter]

palmas85:

Not at all. I suggest that through your movement you do not experience Him in the way you think you do. Also what I suggest is that the entire Charismatic movement is basically:

1 Anti Catholic and anti Catholic beliefs

I am 100% Catholic, and I am charismatic. I believe and accept 100% of what the church teaches. Calling me anti-Catholic is not only inaccurate, but very mean.

palmas85:

2 Pro Protestant, even though they themselves may not realize that they are.

I am not pro-protestant. Although I am also not anti-protestant. I do not agree with any protestant teachings that oppose the Catholic faith. However, I have many protestant friends who are deeply in love with God, and I fo not oppose them, even though I may disagree with some, but not all, of their beliefs.

palmas85:

3 falling into a belief that an emotional state is necessary to get close to God.That particular belief is an fact a Heresy if I’m not mistaken…

I’ve never heard anyone say that “an emotional state is necessary to get close to God.” And I have been very active in the charismatic movement for over 30 years. However, I do recognize that my emotions were created by God and given to me for use. If I use them for His glory, then He is pleased. If I use them for everything other than worship, then I am misusing what He created.

palmas85:

And I will repeat the questions that none of you has ever answered

If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why were we denied this “gift” for so long and why did the Protestant Churches get it first?

Actually, we got it first, on Pentecost. That was long before there were any protestant churches.

palmas85:

.WE, IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE THE TRUE FAITH AND DON’T NEED THE GIMMICKS

I’m sorry that you feel that a gift that Holy Spirit has bestowed on some of His people is a gimmick. But it isn’t. It truly is the working of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Freeway4321]

palmas85:

What in the world is a “qualified minister of the new covenant” ?

I never heard of that one before.

Maybe a new revelation on the sacrament of Holy Orders ?

Ah yes, this is a new invention from the USCCB.

I believe this is the title you get when you graduate from Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers. What this level in the lay ministry includes is not only distributing communion, but also holding the chalice for those who want the precious blood.

 

[Walking_Home]

Clarification here:

Neocatechumenals consider themselves charismatic because they believe they are continuosly under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Not all charismatics belong to the Neocatechumenal Way.

 

[MrS]

For anyone who may be interested…

There is a CD lecture available through www.catholicintl.com that is titled “Tongue Speaking, The Charismatic Movement”. The author is Robert Sungenis whose apologetic works are thought to be superb by other credible apologists (and whose scientific renderings are making for great debate).

Anyway, contact them for your copy. If you don’t enjoy them, and learn a lot… I will be amazed - whether you are pro or con on the matter of Tongues.

 

[gusano]

MrS:

Judging from his post… I think perception is one…, humor could be a half, and wit the other half ( ), … perhaps fortitude, piety, wisdom are to be included too. But then, those would be among a different list of the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit”.
I will continue to look for a list of “other gifts He has given…” that include tongues.

Hi MrS,
Have you looked in your bible?
There are 28 gifts listed in the New testament, in addition to the ones you quoted from Isaiah.
1 Cor. 12: lists these; **
7… “To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8… To one the Spirit gives wisdom in discourse,
to another the power to express knowledge.
9… Through the Spirit one receives faith.;
by the same Spirit another is given the gift of healing,
10… and still another miraculous powers.
Prophesy is given to one;
to another power to distinguish one spirit from another.
One receives the gift of tongues.
another that of interpreting the tongues.
11… But it is one and the same Spirit who produces all these gifts, distributing them to each as he wills.” **

more in verse 28

Happy searching

gusano

 

[gusano]

Walking_Home:

MrS,

I was referring to Mr. Gusanos post #92. He has made it known in other threads that he belongs to the Neocatechumenal Way. These were the NCW catechists, I was referring to.

One of the ploys the “Way” uses is to use scripture against those who dissaggree with them. To make them look as if they are against God. Reread post # 92.

Hi Walking-Home,
Pleast tell me what I said that convinces you I belong to the Neocatechumenal way.
I returned to the Catholic Faith in 1964
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1965
I have been involved in The Charismatic Renewal, Parish RCIA, Eucharistic Ministry, Lector, Bible study, Tha Catechumenate,
and where ever the Holy Spirit has led me.

I recently joined a couple in a bible study who have moved here from California. they were in the Neocatechumenal way when they lived in Ca.
Does that mean to you that I belong to them ?
I have welcomed Mormons and JWs in my home for 35 years as we discussed the bible… Does that mean I belong to them ?

Now please clarify for me where you get that anyone who disagrees with me is an enemy of God.
and
Do you know the difference between
The Catechumenate
and
the Neocatechumenate way ?

gusano

 

[gloryb]

gusano:

Maybe these folks have not discovered THE ALTAR and He who is there. Peace,

AMEN!

My pastor is very much into the charismatic renewal and even teaches hand raising and “thank you Jesus, praise you Jesus” during prayer and worship meetings. And I am serious–I went to one of these. Just one!

He has drawn charismatics from the area to our church and while what is done during a praise and worship session is personal I believe doing this during the liturgy is trying to “one-up” Jesus! You look across the church to see someone with hands raised and almost dancing and hear people behind you with a “shhh-shhh” sound going “thank you Jesus, praise you Jesus”. During the Mass!

This is intensely distracting!! I just hope they can understand that they are revolving the Mass around themselves! I am sure this is not what they really want. I like to see involvement in one’s faith as well, but not during the liturgy.

I understand the desire to be more fervent in one’s faith and practice but maybe we should limit that to what we do with our faith outside the Mass and not to drawing attention to ourselves inside. We can always pray in tongues privately if that is what we believe. We can raise our hands at home and be as demonstrative as we wish. But let’s keep the Mass focused on the altar.

Gloryb

 

[gusano]

palmas85:

Not at all. I suggest that through your movement you do not experience Him in the way you think you do.
(A)

And I will repeat the questions that none of you has ever answered
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why were we denied this “gift” for so long and why did the Protestant Churches get it first?
(B)

(A)
So you have insight into the hearts, minds, and souls and experience of Charismatics who are led by the Holy Spirit,
Do you ?

(B)
I do not know what material you read, nor wher you access that information…which is complete error.

But never has God denied his gift to anyone …
(except when He denies it to "SIMON " and his types.) Acts 8: 21
(and also the pharisees in Acts 7: 51 who stoned Phillip, the young Apostle.)

You are badly misled because you know neither the Scripture, nor the Power of God.

gusano

 

[gusano]

Ah yes, this is a new invention from the USCCB.

I believe this is the title you get when you graduate from Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers. What this level in the lay ministry includes is not only distributing communion, but also holding the chalice for those who want the precious blood.

CORRECTION;
That is a new invention By Our Lord Jesus Christ (Matt. 26: 27,28)
and
further revelation by St. Paul; (2 Cor. 3: 6)

and there is far more to it than your definition.

gusano

 

[MrS]

gloryb:

AMEN!

I understand the desire to be more fervent in one’s faith and practice but maybe we should limit that to what we do with our faith outside the Mass and not to drawing attention to ourselves inside. We can always pray in tongues privately if that is what we believe. We can raise our hands at home and be as demonstrative as we wish. But let’s keep the Mass focused on the altar.

Gloryb

I agree, and your comment prompted a thought… I wonder if those who “have the gift of tongues” ever go into an empty church to pray… and exhibit the postures they do during a Mass. Somehow I doubt it. I also doubt that they are so external while praying and driving, or praying while resting in bed etc.

So it is just something that happens when others are there to see? I think that is too often the real case. Especially when the criteria for interpretation is practically non-existant.

 

[Michael_Welter]

MrS:

I agree, and your comment prompted a thought… I wonder if those who “have the gift of tongues” ever go into an empty church to pray… and exhibit the postures they do during a Mass. Somehow I doubt it. I also doubt that they are so external while praying and driving, or praying while resting in bed etc.

Actually, you’re making assumptions again. Yes, I go into an empty church and pray with my hands raised, and in tongues. Yes, I will sometimes raise one hand while praying in the car. Yes, I will raise hands while laying in bed, praying in tongues. No, it is not for show. In fact, if I’m the only one at Mass that raises hands, I usually don’t. But at my parish, many people raise their hands during Mass. We’ve been taught to do this by our pastors (yes, more than one).

 

[Freeway4321]

gusano:

CORRECTION;
That is a new invention By Our Lord Jesus Christ (Matt. 26: 27,28)
and
further revelation by St. Paul; (2 Cor. 3: 6)

and there is far more to it than your definition.

gusano

Friend… I was kidding. I have never heard of the term “qualified minister of the new covenant”

 

[netmilsmom]

Freeway4321:

Friend… I was kidding. I have never heard of the term “qualified minister of the new covenant”

I call myself a housewife.
Others call themselves “Domestic Goddess”.

 

[cheddarsox]

MrS:

I agree, and your comment prompted a thought… I wonder if those who “have the gift of tongues” ever go into an empty church to pray… and exhibit the postures they do during a Mass. Somehow I doubt it. I also doubt that they are so external while praying and driving, or praying while resting in bed etc.

So it is just something that happens when others are there to see? I think that is too often the real case. Especially when the criteria for interpretation is practically non-existant.

I know of charismatics who pray in tongues privately. In fact, I know of many who ONLY do it in private so as not to cause upset among those who do not understand. Of course, there would be little way for you to be privy to such, unless you had some friends amongst them.

Rest assured, for many it is definitely not about being noticed. I cannot speak for all hearts, but there are many good ones out there.

cheddar

 

[Annunciata]

MrS:

I agree, and your comment prompted a thought… I wonder if those who “have the gift of tongues” ever go into an empty church to pray… and exhibit the postures they do during a Mass. Somehow I doubt it. I also doubt that they are so external while praying and driving, or praying while resting in bed etc.

So it is just something that happens when others are there to see? I think that is too often the real case. Especially when the criteria for interpretation is practically non-existant.

Not so Mr S… I prefer to pray in solitude when praying in tongues.
I don’t want to be noticed…I just want to praise God when I’m at a loss for words…sometimes I’m so overwhelmed w/ love or in need that words that intelligible words fail me…hence I am able to pray in tongues and speak to my Lord and my God in a gift I did not ask for but He chose to give to me…

 

[gusano]

gloryb:

AMEN!

My pastor is very much into the charismatic renewal and even teaches hand raising and “thank you Jesus, praise you Jesus” during prayer and worship meetings. And I am serious–I went to one of these. Just one!

He has drawn charismatics from the area to our church and while what is done during a praise and worship session is personal I believe doing this during the liturgy is trying to “one-up” Jesus! You look across the church to see someone with hands raised and almost dancing and hear people behind you with a “shhh-shhh” sound going “thank you Jesus, praise you Jesus”. During the Mass!

This is intensely distracting!! I just hope they can understand that they are revolving the Mass around themselves! I am sure this is not what they really want. I like to see involvement in one’s faith as well, but not during the liturgy.

I understand the desire to be more fervent in one’s faith and practice but maybe we should limit that to what we do with our faith outside the Mass and not to drawing attention to ourselves inside. We can always pray in tongues privately if that is what we believe. We can raise our hands at home and be as demonstrative as we wish. But let’s keep the Mass focused on the altar.

Gloryb

Hi Gloryb,
Thanks for your interesting post.
I think these debates are not really about "Tongues, Raised hands, nor about demonstrating Faith…

The debates are about the discomport we feel in The Spirit.
For example; Rev. 3: 15…
** “I know your deeds; I know you are neither hot nor cold.
How I wish you were one of the other—hot or cold !
16. But because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth !” **

we Catholics don’t want to be “too hot”…it may offend some sleepy head who might be looking .

We don’t want to be “too cold”…our FAITH may seem like frozen steak, and we won’t enjoy it frozen.

so we will remain “so-so”…like half-baked bread, or half-cooked chicken…and that is the offer we offer to God !
Yaagghhhh !…would you eat that ?
Do we expect God to accept Mediocrity?

We give better interest to our favorite soccer game than we give to Christ’s Offer at the Altar.

Look at what became of Cain ( Gen. 4: 3 - 7)
"Why are you so resentful and crestfallen ? , The Lord asked him.

The Peace and Joy of Christ to you,

gusano

 

[gusano]

Annunciata:

Not so Mr S… I prefer to pray in solitude when praying in tongues.
I don’t want to be noticed…I just want to praise God when I’m at a loss for words…sometimes I’m so overwhelmed w/ love or in need that words that intelligible words fail me…hence I am able to pray in tongues and speak to my Lord and my God in a gift I did not ask for but He chose to give to me…

Thanks Annunciata,
I needed that !

you sure know how to make a grown man cry.



gusano

 

[gusano]

Freeway4321:

Friend… I was kidding. I have never heard of the term “qualified minister of the new covenant”

Thanks Freeway4321,
for calling me “Friend”,

In that case… How would you like to become a
"Qualified Minister of the New Covenant ?"

your friend,

gusano

 

[Freeway4321]

gusano:

Thanks Freeway4321,
for calling me “Friend”,

In that case… How would you like to become a
"Qualified Minister of the New Covenant ?"

your friend,

gusano

Friend… i’ve decided i’m going to pass on said offer. Thank you anyway.

 

[gusano]

Freeway4321:

Friend… i’ve decided i’m going to pass on said offer. Thank you anyway.

Too busy ?
Have you just bought some land and you must go and inspect it ?

Tell me, if you are up to it,
What is your reason for being in The Church ?

( I take it you are in the Church ?)

gusano