P
Peter_Da_Rock
Guest
Hello, she is too. Jesus and God are one God.
- Status
J
justasking4
Guest
True but Mary did not have in mind the full concept of the incarnation and its implications.
P
Peter_Da_Rock
Guest
ahhhhhh, you know the mind of Mary? Maybe she did, maybe she did not.
F
fellowChristian
Guest
II. . . . Born of the Virgin Mary
487
What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.
Mary’s predestination
488
“God sent forth his Son,” but to prepare a body for him,125 he wanted the free cooperation of a creature. For this, from all eternity God chose for the mother of his Son a daughter of Israel, a young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee, “a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary”:126
The Father of mercies willed that the Incarnation should be preceded by assent on the part of the predestined mother, so that just as a woman had a share in the coming of death, so also should a woman contribute to the coming of life.127
489
Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living.128 By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age.129 Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women.130 Mary "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established."131
The Immaculate Conception
490
To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace."133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
491
Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135
492
The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son."136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love."137
493
The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia) and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature."138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
For more
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2art3p2.htm
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p6.htm#963
487
What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.
Mary’s predestination
488
“God sent forth his Son,” but to prepare a body for him,125 he wanted the free cooperation of a creature. For this, from all eternity God chose for the mother of his Son a daughter of Israel, a young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee, “a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary”:126
The Father of mercies willed that the Incarnation should be preceded by assent on the part of the predestined mother, so that just as a woman had a share in the coming of death, so also should a woman contribute to the coming of life.127
489
Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living.128 By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age.129 Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women.130 Mary "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established."131
The Immaculate Conception
490
To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace."133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
491
Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135
492
The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son."136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love."137
493
The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia) and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature."138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
For more
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2art3p2.htm
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p6.htm#963
F
fellowChristian
Guest
You know what really amazes me?
We know by looking at history that Protestants are only 490 years old. That the Bible was not handed on down through them. We know that because Protestant denominations are only 490 years old, some even less then 10 years old, they are the ones who were handed the Bible.
Since they are just a “child” we know that alot of their “traditions” had to come from some where? They didn’t make up all that stuff on their own.
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old. It was the only Christian church around from the time of Christ until Martin Luther started “protesting” in 1517ad.
The Catholic Church is the father, the original.
Protestant denominations are the child, the copies.
Isn’t that just like ungrateful children telling their father how stupid he is for doing what he’s doing.
We know by looking at history that Protestants are only 490 years old. That the Bible was not handed on down through them. We know that because Protestant denominations are only 490 years old, some even less then 10 years old, they are the ones who were handed the Bible.
Since they are just a “child” we know that alot of their “traditions” had to come from some where? They didn’t make up all that stuff on their own.
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old. It was the only Christian church around from the time of Christ until Martin Luther started “protesting” in 1517ad.
The Catholic Church is the father, the original.
Protestant denominations are the child, the copies.
Isn’t that just like ungrateful children telling their father how stupid he is for doing what he’s doing.
Z
Zooey
Guest
The whole book of Ecclesiastes is a collection of the false & twisted ideas that fill the mind of a person who has turned his back on God. Just as Solomon did, when he preferred his many wives & mistresses, over his relationship with Almighty God.
Solomon had been wise. But he became so full of his own self importance, & so caught up in a sinful lifestyle, that, "thinking [himself] wise, [he] became a fool.
Sin & rebellion are like that, you see.
People who live in glass houses…http://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/sad/6.gif
G
Gamera
Guest
That isn’t my interpretation of Luke 1:46. Why should I accept your interpretation of a Bible verse over my interpretation of it?
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
So?
Were the Early Church Fathers infallible? No.
The Church has considered caredfully the ideas and thoughts of all of her sons and discerned (infallibly, mind you) which of them were correct and which of them were not.
Your answer also implies that there were Early Church Fathers that thought Mary did not sin.
Guess who the Church, led by the Holy Spirit, decided was right?
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Hear, hear. First, she says one thing, then the exact opposite.
Missie is not asking her questions because she is seeking to learn from what we have to say nor can she honestly believe that any of us are buying what she’s selling since for every charge she makes we provide dozens of responses. Perhaps when she first arrived in the forum, she thought she would teach us ignorant and unsaved Catholics a thing or two about REAL Bible Christianity, but that misconception has surely been snuffed out long ago.
Therefore, I conclude she is simply trolling or venting her hatred of the Catholic Church.
M
mercygate
Guest
All over the OT people refer to the God who saves. Would Mary need to have a full blown concept of the redemption in order to “rejoice in God her Savior”? On the other hand, the Angel said to her:
- the Lord is with you!
- call his name Jesus.
- Son of the Most High;
- the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
- he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end. - Elizabeth greets Mary as “Mother of my Lord.”
All of those things point to a richer understanding of Who this child was.
None of this is ever about Mary for her own sake.
H
heisenburg
Guest
Just…
I am genuinely asking. Would you be so kind as to provide a source for this claim? I’m sure there are probably instances, but jsut wanted to know which ones…
That being said, there are also church fathers that claimed her to be more than just special, ever virgin, and hint at immaculate conception.
the Proto- of James is one example…
So you see, it can go both ways…
In Christ
I am genuinely asking. Would you be so kind as to provide a source for this claim? I’m sure there are probably instances, but jsut wanted to know which ones…
That being said, there are also church fathers that claimed her to be more than just special, ever virgin, and hint at immaculate conception.
the Proto- of James is one example…
So you see, it can go both ways…
In Christ
F
fellowChristian
Guest
Tradition / Church Fathers
For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin."
**Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180). **
“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.”
** Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century**).
“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected… Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.”
**Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378). **
“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.”
**Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379). **
“For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.”
**Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380). **
“Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain?” **Epiphanius, Panarion, 30:31 (ante A.D. 403). **
“Give milk, Mother to him who is our food, give milk to the bread coming down from heaven …give milk to him who made you such that he could be made fruitfulness in conception and in birth, did not take from you the ornament of virginity.”
**Augustine, Sermon 369:1 (A.D. 430). **
“Hail to thee Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.”
**Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 (ante A.D. 444). **
“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory…”
**Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily 4:3 (ante A.D. 446). **
“Mary the Ever-Virgin – radiant with divine light and full of grace, mediatrix first through her supernatural birth and now because of the intercession of her maternal assistance – be crowned with never ending blessings …seeking balance and fittingness in all things, we should make our way honestly, as sons of light.”
Germanus of Constantinople, Homily on the Liberation of Constantinople,
23 (ante A.D. 733).
For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin."
**Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180). **
“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.”
** Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century**).
“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected… Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.”
**Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378). **
“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.”
**Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379). **
“For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.”
**Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380). **
“Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain?” **Epiphanius, Panarion, 30:31 (ante A.D. 403). **
“Give milk, Mother to him who is our food, give milk to the bread coming down from heaven …give milk to him who made you such that he could be made fruitfulness in conception and in birth, did not take from you the ornament of virginity.”
**Augustine, Sermon 369:1 (A.D. 430). **
“Hail to thee Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.”
**Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 (ante A.D. 444). **
“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory…”
**Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily 4:3 (ante A.D. 446). **
“Mary the Ever-Virgin – radiant with divine light and full of grace, mediatrix first through her supernatural birth and now because of the intercession of her maternal assistance – be crowned with never ending blessings …seeking balance and fittingness in all things, we should make our way honestly, as sons of light.”
Germanus of Constantinople, Homily on the Liberation of Constantinople,
23 (ante A.D. 733).
F
fellowChristian
Guest
Tradition / Church Fathers
“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.”
Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.”
Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).
“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.”
Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).
“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).
“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.”
**Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388). **
“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.”
Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).
“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.”
**Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446). **
“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.”
Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).
“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.”
Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).
“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.”
Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).
“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.”
Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).
“Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendour and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God… The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.”
**Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733). **
“[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever.”
**Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733). **
“O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.”
John of Damascus, Homily I (ante A.D. 749).
“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.”
Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.”
Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).
“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.”
Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).
“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).
“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.”
**Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388). **
“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.”
Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).
“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.”
**Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446). **
“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.”
Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).
“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.”
Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).
“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.”
Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).
“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.”
Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).
“Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendour and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God… The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.”
**Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733). **
“[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever.”
**Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733). **
“O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.”
John of Damascus, Homily I (ante A.D. 749).
J
jpusateri
Guest
Prepare to be educated on literature.
The point of view of Ecclesiates is of one who does not believe in life after death in order to show how ridiculous that point of view is.
Does that make it untrue?
Or is it ok for me to say that the Bible is atheistic because there is a verse that states “there is no God”?
Look it up. Psalm 14:1b
D
DebChris
Guest
A continuation on the same idea. The Bible is not a single book. Rather it is a collection of writings gathered over time. Each author, inspired by God, used his own style is presenting the word of God. The human authors wrote within the context of their own culture.
As mentioned earlier, the Bible is not read merely literally. The OT is read in light of the NT and the NT in light of the OT. Scripture is read as it applies to the life of Christ, the events of the OT foreshadowing the Gospels. It is read morally—How do we apply what we read to our own lives? Finally, it is read eschalogically, as it points toward the end times.
Throughout this thread, Mary has never been portrayed as divine. She is the human vessel chosen by God to carry the divine. When we enters another’s home, do we not show honor to the host by respecting that which belongs to him. Mary belongs to God and it is only right to give her the honor that God himself bestowed upon her. Mary has been described as an aquaduct (Louis de Montfont) and as a well (Scott Hahn). The aquaduct or well hold the water within. They are not the water but do we not go to the well to drink?
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
I was getting that same general impression of her.
M
misslollipops
Guest
Are there any prayers to St Joseph that you can say to bring you closer to Jesus?
He was entrusted to raise Jesus also, so he is pretty important.
He would be an aqueduct just the same right?
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
That is another topic. Quit your trolling…
M
misslollipops
Guest
Doesn’t an apologetics website need an opposing viewpoint?
If this is all about defending your faith doesn’t there need to be someone to defend it against?
You need people like me.
Or there wouldn’t be a spirited debate.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
Yes but with charity.
We give you an answers yet still you lack the willingness to understand our position. You still object. There are other Protestants here who understand. They disagree but they don’t waste their time trying to convince me that my position of my belief is erroneous.
I prefer discussion than debate. Many Catholic Apologists like Tim Staples, Jimmy Akin, Steve Ray, often distant themselves from calling it a debate.
From my observation, all you have done is being completely objective to our position and made no attempt to understand our beliefs. You need to understand that devout Catholics do not adhere to Bible Alone or Faith Alone. Those doctrines are completely foreign to us and those doctrines were founded on Protestantism in 1517 by Martin Luther.
This thread is about praying the Hail Mary, I suppose was meant to open some form of understanding by someone like you who have little or no understanding of the prayer of Hail Mary.
I think most Catholics who have responded to this have done a pretty good job at explaining our Catholic position on the Hail Mary Prayer.
- Hail Mary derives from Luke 1:28. The rosary is base completely from Scripture and depended on it.
- The rosary is not required by the Catholic Church to pray. It is recommended but not necessary for salvation of the soul.
- Status