Praying to saints.

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cs80918 said:
I pray that is I am wrong about the catholic church that God will show me my errors. If God does do this then I was gladly and whole heartely rejoice and be glad. Until, that day comes I will not believe. If you believe I am wrong then pray for me so that my eyes will be opened and I will see the truth. With the mind that God has given me I currently believe the catholic church has many false doctrines.
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I will pray that you find the Truth.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
Yes.

Oh, you’ve decided we’re worth your time after all?

EDIT: Clarification: Homosexuality is not a sin. Having a homosexual relationship, or having homosexual sex, is a sin,
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I’m responding to people who have posted.
 
Melchior said:
I think the main objection, if I’m not mistaken, is there is no direct quote of “Saint ______, pray for us!”. I believe the logic goes like this;
  • We believe that we can ask the Saints to pray for us.
  • The CONCEPT of this is in the Bible.
  • It is not directly said “Saint _____, pray for us!”
  • Therefore asking Saints for help does not exist.
The problem with this is you can run into something like this;
  • All Christians believe in the Trinity.
  • The CONCEPT of the Trinity is in the Bible.
  • The word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible.
  • Therefore the Trinity does not exist.
cs80918, explain the difference.
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The word “Bible” is not in the bible either. 🙂
 
cs80918 said:
I’m responding to people who have posted.
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Somewhat. You have not answered by rebuttal to your comment Revelations 5. Those Elders

A) Should be cast from Heaven for being useless. Who would just sit there holding onto prayers?
B) Far more importantly, why are they holding onto those prayers in the first place? Are not all prayers supposed to go to Jesus directly?

You have also not answered my claim that by your logic you should not believe in the Trinity.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Sounds like you want to rewrite the bible to suit yourself. I’m just saying…
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Oh my goodness. I’m not trying to knock you, but what your saying doesn’t make any sense. If that verse was changed it would support your view not mine.
 
It’s good you are here, asking these questions. If you stick around long enough, you will see the truth of the Catholic faith, and :eek: become a Catholic! That’s what happens when most Protestants really read their bible, not just the selected verses they have memorized.

Anyways, good night everyone!
 
Melchior said:
Be nice, Marc. I want to see how he responds to some of the other questions 🙂
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I was quite polite when I was engaging in regular debate and discussion. When he went out and made an ad hominem attack on members of the Church I got mad.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
The bowl is full of prayers. What on Earth are they for if not praying?
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Yes they are prayers from the saints on earth.

Example.

Little susie on earth is praying. Then that prayer goes up to heaven and from Revelations I’m assuming it is in a bowl. It is like an incense or odor.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.

No where in this verse does it say that anyone was praying to God for someone else who was on earth.
 
Once again though, you have posted no verses that contradict the concept of prayer to the Saints.
 
Melchior said:
Wait…so you mean to tell me that these Elders, who obviously are great Christians as they have a position right beside Lamb, are just going to sit there and do NOTHING with these prayers? That the prayers of the saints will not go to God? Explain to me how these Elders are not thrown from the Heavens.

Actually, explain to me why they are holding onto those prayers in the first place, because apparently there should be no one between us and Christ Jesus, yes?

Oh, and you completely missed my part about Prince Michael, who leads God’s army.
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It says golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of saints. It means that the prayers are going into God some how, just like when you burn incense on earth. The elders are worshiping God, verse 5:9 And they sang a new son, saying:

The only communcations I see going on is them praising God.
 
cs80918 said:
Yes they are prayers from the saints on earth.

Example.

Little susie on earth is praying. Then that prayer goes up to heaven and from Revelations I’m assuming it is in a bowl. It is like an incense or odor.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.

No where in this verse does it say that anyone was praying to God for someone else who was on earth.
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Some say that we should pray directly to Christ, yet here we clearly see another party in the mix, the Elders.

Further, Little Susie says “Saint Jude, I ask that these prayers get taken Jesus”. What if Jude is one of those Elders?

Finally, let me break this down to you a bit;

Praying to the Saints is like Roadside Assistance. Your car breaks down and you need a hand. You call Roadside Assistance to help get your car to the mechanic. Roadside Assistance cannot fix your car for you, but they are empowered to take yoru car to someone who can fix it.

Roadside Assistance is the Saints, Jesus is the Mechanic.

If you prefer a 2010 version of this analogy, the Saints are like On-Star. Jesus still fixes the car though.
 
Melchior said:
Incorrect. Saul was rebuked because he went to a seer/diviner, which not only breaks God’s Law but also the law that Saul placed himself.
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You say that you are not praying to saints in heaven. You say that you are ASKING SAINTS in heaven to pray for you. Asking and praying. It still means you are communicating with someone who is dead. In the sense that if a saint died today, that saint would be dead in body.
 
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