President Trump's pro-life proclamation

[HomeschoolDad]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-national-sanctity-human-life-day-2020/

This needs to take its place in history beside Washington’s farewell address, the Gettysburg Address, and FDR’s Four Freedoms Speech.

He even brought up the subject of abortifacient contraception.

I would crawl to the polls to vote for him in November.

(Full disclosure: I did not vote for Trump in 2016. His pro-life credentials were not as obvious, I live in a safe “red” state where not voting for him would have made no difference, so I cast a third-party protest vote. I wouldn’t repeat that.)

 

[Wesrock]

I am not a fan of Trump, but that is a pretty good proclamation.

 

[Emeraldlady]

I would crawl to the polls to vote for him in November.

If one isn’t unconditionally prolife… what’s that about?

A demagogue is a leader who gains popularity in a democracy by exploiting emotions, prejudice, and ignorance to arouse an audience, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation. Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.

Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue thus: “What is a demagogue? He is a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of ‘man of the people’. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself.”

Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population. Demagogues usually advocate immediate, forceful action to address a crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty.

Demagogue - Wikipedia

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

He is a politician skilled in oratory

Rules trump right out. The guy can barely form a sentence

Did you read the OP?

 

[Emeraldlady]

Sure did. I was responding to your accusation of demagoguery

So you think his ‘proclamation’ is a barely formed sentence?

 

[Zach]

It doesn’t take a positive subject here long to turn negative. Thanks for posting the link. Great proclamation.

 

[Beryllos]

I like it.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I specifically quoted the bit about oratory. He’s a terrible speaker.

But I also highly doubt he wrote that proclamation himself.

Doesn’t matter. He put his name on it, and he backs it up, not just with words, but with action.

It was a great proclamation. He is the most pro life president in recent history.

My thoughts exactly.

I would crawl to the polls to vote for him in November.

Where the matter of abortion is concerned, Trump is as good as we are going to get, this side of the Three Days of Darkness and the Angelic Monarch (and those are nothing more than tolerated opinions, they may never come to pass). There are a lot of people, basically pro-life, who have to be given certain exceptions — rape, incest, life of mother, severe fetal abnormalities — otherwise they can’t swallow the idea of “no abortion, never, no exceptions”. It is imperfect, and in some ways feels like a “deal with the devil”, but the Church permits us to support incomplete pro-life measures where complete ones are not possible.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Also worth noting that just because someone isn’t in favor of banning all abortions right now, doesn’t mean you can’t use their help to get some abortions banned now instead of none.

That’s basically what I said, more simply and elegantly put. Thank you.

It does no one any benefit to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Very true. If we were to follow the rule of “don’t vote for anyone who would allow any abortions at all”, we would end up having to create a small third party, vote for its candidates alone, and never win any elections. Sadly, we live in a country where there are only two major parties, and we have to do the best we can within that framework.

 

[po18guy]

Well, he does not rely on a teleprompter, if that’s what you mean…

Indisputable is the fact that he has done more for the Catholic Church than any president in history. For which of these acts is he being excoriated?

 

[redal]

It’s a great proclamation, but what good are words without actions…I’m not seeing many examples of his compassion for the poor (elimination or curtailment of food stamp program, the (thankfully unsuccessful) drive to take out safeguards in the affordable care act, the separation of migrant family members legitimately seeking asylum)…what I see is more like the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14 than the compassion demanded by our Lord in the Judgement of the Nations (Matthew Chapter 25). . . .

 

[Rau]

It’s possible to believe that and still believe some people deserve the death penalty for their actions.

But it’s pretty challenging to do so these days I think. Those words - which I’m sure the last 3 Popes, who have opined on CP, would support, set a very high bar.

 

[Rau]

So, as good as it sounds, I will not crawl to the polls to vote for him, unless I see positive action

Skepticism is always warranted! He is a politician and he knows his support base well.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Indisputable is the fact that he has done more for the Catholic Church than any president in history. For which of these acts is he being excoriated?

Not to nitpick or to diminish how the Church flourishes when we have secular leaders who stand for traditional values (at least some of those values), but being pro-life is not just a Catholic issue. Many people are pro-life, even to a heroic level (no exceptions for life of the mother, rape, incest, etc.), but wouldn’t set foot inside a Catholic church if you paid them to.

There is no comparison between killing an unborn child and a person convicted of a capital offense.

Some people are able to reconcile this truth with the prerogative of the state to take the life of a guilty adult, convicted of a capital crime, where no other solutions are possible.

It is the stance of the Church in this day, that it is virtually impossible for capital punishment to be licit. If the conditions of modern society no longer existed — let’s say, if there were a massive solar event that ruined the electric grid, destroyed all electronics, and threw us back to the 1700s, making modern transportation and communication impossible, and creating conditions where criminal elements could run wild in a “Mad Max”-style scenario — then I submit that the Church would have to concede that it is no longer possible to secure and attempt to rehabilitate all people convicted of capital crimes.

 

[MikkiD1]

My reasons for voting for Trump in 2016: Pro life views. Views on Religious Freedom. I wanted Supreme Court Justices nominated that would likely protect those values. He did not disappoint. I will vote for him in 2020.

 

[Rau]

It is the stance of the Church in this day, that it is virtually impossible for capital punishment to be licit.

Correct, that is the stance, and it pertains to current circumstances as you say. The proclamation makes statements that could be used in reasoning that arrives at just that judgement.

Some people are able to reconcile this truth with the prerogative of the state to take the life of a guilty adult, convicted of a capital crime, where no other solutions are possible.

But note that some people omit the consideration of “other solutions” believing CP is the only appropriate approach for certain crimes.

 

[Convert3]

I’m not seeing many examples of his compassion for the poor

Giving handouts isn’t the only way to help the poor. Creating an economic environment where lower income people can find jobs to improve their family’s wellbeing does much more. Unemployment is at record lows across the board. Incomes are increasing faster at the lower pay scales than the higher ones. Working with businesses to create training programs for new skills helps those whose jobs have disappeared. He’s done more than anybody in a long time!

 

[on_the_hill]

I specifically quoted the bit about oratory. He’s a terrible speaker.

But I also highly doubt he wrote that proclamation himself.

I’d bet my mortgage payment that not only did he not write it, he probably didn’t even read it.

 

[Elizabeth3]

And then there’s this…

Trump to become first president in history to speak at March for Life - Washington Examiner

“From the appointment of pro-life judges and federal workers, to cutting taxpayer funding for abortions here and abroad, to calling for an end to late-term abortions, President Trump and his administration have been consistent champions for life and their support for the March for Life has been unwavering,” she said. "We are grateful for all these pro-life accomplishments and look forward to gaining more victories for life in the future.”

The announcement landed on the anniversary of Roe . The anti-abortion movement, which was initially skeptical about Trump as the Republican nominee, now champions him as a president deeply [committed to its cause].

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Some people are able to reconcile this truth with the prerogative of the state to take the life of a guilty adult, convicted of a capital crime, where no other solutions are possible.

Yes, and my “crime” here is looking at the matter exclusively through Catholic goggles. There are people, both Christian and non-Christian, who see the state as being able to carry out capital punishment for certain crimes, even though it might be possible to confine and attempt to rehabilitate the criminal without executing him. Some see it as a matter of justice. Others, having an imperfect understanding of “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”, think capital punishment is called for on religious grounds. Some others just want revenge and to get rid of criminals.