Presidential Debate #2

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Then none of us can vote for any candidate on any level-including the third party ones, as they are all, by virtue of their humanity, sinners.
Then the obligation to vote must include all candidates, irregardless of their ‘electability’. If the Church does not state a single candidate must be supported, because of the appearances that the Church supported evil should that candidate turn out to be ‘evil’, then I am at liberty to vote my conscience, irregardless of that candidate’s electability, so I am not in the position the Church does not want to risk finding itself in.
 
No candidate will ever be perfect. As such you vote for the electable candidate that will do the least damage.

Why is this so hard for the third party, I’m-waiting-for-St-Francis-to-run-for-President types?
Maybe next time 😃
 
No candidate will ever be perfect. As such you vote for the electable candidate that will do the least damage.

Why is this so hard for the third party, I’m-waiting-for-St-Francis-to-run-for-President types?
I agree no candidate is perfect; far from it. But notice what you’re saying: “As such you vote for the electable candidate that will do the least damage.” There are two compromises here: voting for the electable candidate and voting for the one who will do the least damage, and not even necessarily the most good. Maybe it was always like this in politics, but I tend to think we have just about reached the nadir.
 
No, I wouldn’t have anyone go out of business and put people out of work. I also wouldn’t expect to see such hypocrisy used against something they found advantage in keeping the doors open and people employed. The hypocrisy is in finding fault in others who took advantage, even though you did the exact same thing.
I don’t think that anyone is faulting people for requesting or accepting stimulus funds if they needed to do that. I think the fault is found in those who *voted for *the stimulus packages, among whom were found at least some Republicans the first time around (I didn’t keep track after that).
 
We are not allowed to do evil, so that good may come out of it. So, I do not accept the lesser of two evils argument. There is no ‘electable’ requirement, thus narrowing down one’s conscience to one candidate only. If it were that simple, I believe the Church would plainly state it as so, especially if it were as people say that millions of people have endangered their eternal salvation.
So you put yourself above the Church, which says that we can vote for the lesser of two
evils? If we don’t vote for the candidate who will remove the HHS mandate, great harm will
be done to much of the Catholic Church’s work in charitable institutions that help the poor,
or that help victims of human trafficing or in hospitals, schools, and missions. Some of
these harms are ALREADY in place, put there by policies of the current administration.
From adoption agencies being forced to close by regs requiring them to accept same
sex couples, to funds being denied for not having abortions and contraceptions as a
standard to victims of human slavery (sex-slaves). In these cases, funds were denied even
though the agencies had a much higher rate of success that the agencies who did receive
the funds.
As someone mentioned, we do not have a Saint Francis running. And, in one case for
president, we have absolute proof of the direction he has gone. The choice is clear for
those of us who do not want to see more of this presidents policies.
 
So you put yourself above the Church, which says that we can vote for the lesser of two
evils? If we don’t vote for the candidate who will remove the HHS mandate, great harm will
be done to much of the Catholic Church’s work in charitable institutions that help the poor,
or that help victims of human trafficing or in hospitals, schools, and missions. Some of
these harms are ALREADY in place, put there by policies of the current administration.
From adoption agencies being forced to close by regs requiring them to accept same
sex couples, to funds being denied for not having abortions and contraceptions as a
standard to victims of human slavery (sex-slaves). In these cases, funds were denied even
though the agencies had a much higher rate of success that the agencies who did receive
the funds.
As someone mentioned, we do not have a Saint Francis running. And, in one case for
president, we have absolute proof of the direction he has gone. The choice is clear for
those of us who do not want to see more of this presidents policies.
All those dangers and evils, yet the Church does not specifically state only one candidate can be supported? Why would that be? Wouldn’t the Church be as complicit as someone who did not vote?
 
All those dangers and evils, yet the Church does not specifically state only one candidate can be supported? Why would that be? Wouldn’t the Church be as complicit as someone who did not vote?
You know the answer to this. The Church guides us, educates us (if we want), but does
not force anyone to accept. In the end, we will stand before our Lord, HE has the last
word.
 
You know the answer to this. The Church guides us, educates us (if we want), but does
not force anyone to accept. In the end, we will stand before our Lord, HE has the last
word.
We are all members of the body of Christ. We have accepted Him. The Church clearly tells us all we need to know for our salvation and would not remain silent if it were true that millions of those believers were endangering their immortal souls by refusing to support a single candidate. What is being proposed is that Christ is partisan, and that’s not true. He is King and not a part of the secular system of man.
 
We are all members of the body of Christ. We have accepted Him. The Church clearly tells us all we need to know for our salvation and would not remain silent if it were true that millions of those believers were endangering their immortal souls by refusing to support a single candidate. What is being proposed is that Christ is partisan, and that’s not true. He is King and not a part of the secular system of man.
Then we must sit here like potatoes and accept the possible re-election of the most anti-life president in US history? Don’t think so. And voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning is to cooperate in the evil of re-electing Obama if it is a close race.

And, IIRC, our Lord was fairly “partisan” in overturning the tables of the money changers. Because of the very fact that they were money changers? Nope. Because they were sullying His House. See HHS Mandate, Roman Catholic Church.
 
Not every loan was accepted.
You can’t just refuse a loan because it doesn’t “feel” right. If they qualify, they qualify.

Believe me, I’ve had several people who work for us get loans. Then the creditors harrass them when they can’t make the payments. A lot of people think of home ownership strictly in terms of monthly payments and not allowing for repairs and upkeep. They are not stupid, it’s just that nobody in their family had ever owned a home before.

Then they go to the bankruptcy lawyer who is all smiles until they sign. Then they call here with menacing threats and get their clients’ wages garnished.

It is truly horrible to see people go through this.
 
Then we must sit here like potatoes and accept the possible re-election of the most anti-life president in US history? Don’t think so. And voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning is to cooperate in the evil of re-electing Obama if it is a close race.

And, IIRC, our Lord was fairly “partisan” in overturning the tables of the money changers. Because of the very fact that they were money changers? Nope. Because they were sullying His House. See HHS Mandate, Roman Catholic Church.
Correct.
 
Then we must sit here like potatoes and accept the possible re-election of the most anti-life president in US history? Don’t think so. And voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning is to cooperate in the evil of re-electing Obama if it is a close race.

And, IIRC, our Lord was fairly “partisan” in overturning the tables of the money changers. Because of the very fact that they were money changers? Nope. Because they were sullying His House. See HHS Mandate, Roman Catholic Church.
We are all members of the body of Christ. We have all accepted Him. The Church confirms this.
On the subject of intrinsic evils, the Church speaks clearly about one condemning themselves through such evil to include excommunication in some cases. It goes beyond just teaching us that such an action is wrong.

Why would such an action as voting be different, if it truly were an occasion of one endangering their souls to damnation?

You may have interpreted an action as complete cooperation, but the Church has not given that definition through a unified voice. The Pope has such a unifying voice. He is the one over ALL Catholics.

You don’t have to sit like a potato. You must weigh and discern.

I do not fear for His Church, for His promises are that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and He would be with it until the consummation of the world. He did not need help running the money changers out then and does not need help protecting His Church now.
 
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