Presidential Debate #2

[Prodigal_Son1]

You can’t just refuse a loan because it doesn’t “feel” right. If they qualify, they qualify.

Believe me, I’ve had several people who work for us get loans. Then the creditors harrass them when they can’t make the payments. A lot of people think of home ownership strictly in terms of monthly payments and not allowing for repairs and upkeep. They are not stupid, it’s just that nobody in their family had ever owned a home before.

Then they go to the bankruptcy lawyer who is all smiles until they sign. Then they call here with menacing threats and get their clients’ wages garnished.

It is truly horrible to see people go through this.

You’re preaching to the choir. I filed bankruptcy 12 years ago, due to overwhelming medical problems. I had to start over in my late 40s. I have repaired my credit, purchased a home, vehicles, etc. It was not easy and I consider myself extremely blessed.

Through the years I have been through everything you describe.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I do not fear for His Church, for His promises are that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and He would be with it until the consummation of the world. He did not need help running the money changers out then and does not need help protecting His Church now.

We are going through the test.

 

[iloveangels]

We are all members of the body of Christ. We have all accepted Him. The Church confirms this.
On the subject of intrinsic evils, the Church speaks clearly about one condemning themselves through such evil to include excommunication in some cases. It goes beyond just teaching us that such an action is wrong.

Why would such an action as voting be different, if it truly were an occasion of one endangering their souls to damnation?

You may have interpreted an action as complete cooperation, but the Church has not given that definition through a unified voice. The Pope has such a unifying voice. He is the one over ALL Catholics.

You don’t have to sit like a potato. You must weigh and discern.

I do not fear for His Church, for His promises are that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and He would be with it until the consummation of the world. He did not need help running the money changers out then and does not need help protecting His Church now.

The Church as a whole will survive. Scripture says so. However, Scripture never says that the Church will not be harmed or disappear in a particular county, and in fact that has happened in history. England was one case and there have been others. We do not want that to happen here in the United States. It could happen if we let it happen.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The Church as a whole will survive. Scripture says so. However, Scripture never says that the Church will not be harmed or disappear in a particular county, and in fact that has happened in history. England was one case and there have been others. We do not want that to happen here in the United States. It could happen if we let it happen.

If it serves God’s greater purpose, or His will, you cannot stop it.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

We are not talking about the death of our Church, we know that that can not happen.
We are talking about the unborn who won’t be born because of abortion, the children
who will be put in homes with 2 mothers or 2 fathers, the sex-slaves who won’t know
freedom, and doctors and nurses (in California eligible to perform abortion) who won’t
be able to opt out of doing them, etc.
Can we do it all? No, but WE are God’s hands and we can do some of it. And we can
vote out a president who will continue to do not only the above but more and more of it,
and bankrupt our country to boot.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You’re preaching to the choir. I filed bankruptcy 12 years ago, due to overwhelming medical problems. I had to start over in my late 40s. I have repaired my credit, purchased a home, vehicles, etc. It was not easy and I consider myself extremely blessed.

Through the years I have been through everything you describe.

The wolves are horrible. I feel sorry for the people who got scammed by this “everyone a homeowner.” This was completely avoidable. There was no reason to have put people through this.

Your medical problem was not avoidable. I pray every day for people who are subjected to this kind of treatment.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If it serves God’s greater purpose, or His will, you cannot stop it.

To a point. God’s greater will is to keep his word and spread it. We should not vote for people who openly try to suppress his message.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

To a point. God’s greater will is to keep his word and spread it. We should not vote for people who openly try to suppress his message.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We are not talking about the death of our Church, we know that that can not happen.
We are talking about the unborn who won’t be born because of abortion, the children
who will be put in homes with 2 mothers or 2 fathers, the sex-slaves who won’t know
freedom, and doctors and nurses (in California eligible to perform abortion) who won’t
be able to opt out of doing them, etc.
Can we do it all? No, but WE are God’s hands and we can do some of it. And we can
vote out a president who will continue to do not only the above but more and more of it,
and bankrupt our country to boot.

Once more, if we were narrowed down to only one choice as who to vote for, why doesn’t the Church simply say, 'Catholics can only vote for ‘candidate X’? Is the Church exempt from fighting evil the same as you place me responsible for by voting?

 

[qui_est_ce]

You’re preaching to the choir. I filed bankruptcy 12 years ago, due to overwhelming medical problems. I had to start over in my late 40s. I have repaired my credit, purchased a home, vehicles, etc. It was not easy and I consider myself extremely blessed.

Through the years I have been through everything you describe.

I am sorry for your experience. I hope you came out of it closer to God. I’ve had some terrible things happen to me too. I know God was trying to get my attention and make me realize to put myself completely in his hands.

May God bless you.

 

[iloveangels]

If it serves God’s greater purpose, or His will, you cannot stop it.

Fatalism.

fa·tal·ism
fáyt’l ìzzəm ]

doctrine of fate: the philosophical doctrine according to which all events are fated to happen, so that human beings cannot change their destinies
belief in all-powerful fate: the belief that people are powerless against fate
feeling of powerlessness against fate: an attitude of resignation and passivity that results from the belief that people are powerless against fate

But in fact, fate does not determine the course of nations. Believing in fate is a very pagan thing. God and men working together determine the course of nations. This is a basic principle of Catholic belief. It shows up everywhere in theology. It’s called the “Incarnational Principle.” Human effort is required. God works through people, not in spite of them or irrespective of them.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

To a point. God’s greater will is to keep his word and spread it. We should not vote for people who openly try to suppress his message.

Deep within me, I feel we slight our obligation to faith in Him by thinking we can place men in power on this earth to accomplish His will. Couldn’t God force His will, but does not? Can men do a better job of what God does not? Where does man receive an authority to make decisions what His will should be?

The Romans clearly tried to wipe Christianity off the face of the earth. Now it is where the seat of Peter is.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Fatalism.

fa·tal·ism
fáyt’l ìzzəm ]

doctrine of fate: the philosophical doctrine according to which all events are fated to happen, so that human beings cannot change their destinies
belief in all-powerful fate: the belief that people are powerless against fate
feeling of powerlessness against fate: an attitude of resignation and passivity that results from the belief that people are powerless against fate

But in fact, fate does not determine the course of nations. Believing in fate is a very pagan thing. God and men working together determine the course of nations. This is a basic principle of Catholic belief. It shows up everywhere in theology. It’s called the “Incarnational Principle.”

Total submission to Him, and His will.

I’m afraid to start another discussion with you and will not be responding to your posts. Peace to you.

 

[iloveangels]

Deep within me, I feel we slight our obligation to faith in Him by thinking we can place men in power on this earth to accomplish His will. Couldn’t God force His will, but does not? Can men do a better job of what God does not? Where does man receive an authority to make decisions what His will should be?

The Romans clearly tried to wipe Christianity off the face of the earth. Now it is where the seat of Peter is.

Do you believe that if all the Christians in Rome had buckled and lied about their faith to avoid the lions that the Church that things would have turned out the same way?

In fact, that is NOT what the Holy Spirit prompted them to do, or what they did.

The seed of the Church turned out to be the blood of the martyrs. That came at a huge cost. It was not fatalistic. They knew what they were doing.

 

[St_Francis]

We are all members of the body of Christ. We have accepted Him. The Church clearly tells us all we need to know for our salvation and would not remain silent if it were true that millions of those believers were endangering their immortal souls by refusing to support a single candidate. What is being proposed is that Christ is partisan, and that’s not true. He is King and not a part of the secular system of man.

The Church only gives us moral guidelines–the prudential part of the decision is up to the appropriate person. When it comes to voting, those persons would be us.

The Church will not tell us whom to vote for. For one thing, circumstances vary in many different ways. The Church might explain why voting for a particular person would be a very bad idea, but not say one has to vote for a particular person.

I live in a swing state; I will vote for Romney. If I did not live in a swing state, if I lived in California or Kansas, then I would probably vote 3rd party, altho I don’t feel as strongly about that now as I did earlier in this race or in the 08 election, when I *really. really. really *wanted to vote 3rd party!

 

[iloveangels]

The Church only gives us moral guidelines–the prudential part of the decision is up to the appropriate person. When it comes to voting, those persons would be us.

The Church will not tell us whom to vote for. For one thing, circumstances vary in many different ways. The Church might explain why voting for a particular person would be a very bad idea, but not say one has to vote for a particular person.

Actually, that’s fairly recent. The US government threatens the Church about endorsing candidates, saying that it will revoke tax exemption. But some churches do it anyway. Problem is that the Catholic Church is easy to target for the IRS since we have deep pockets. It goes with being the largest single religious group in the US.

I live in a swing state; I will vote for Romney. If I did not live in a swing state, if I lived in California or Kansas, then I would probably vote 3rd party, altho I don’t feel as strongly about that now as I did earlier in this race or in the 08 election, when I *really. really. really *wanted to vote 3rd party!

Good for you. This is realistic.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The Church only gives us moral guidelines–the prudential part of the decision is up to the appropriate person. When it comes to voting, those persons would be us.

The Church will not tell us whom to vote for. For one thing, circumstances vary in many different ways. The Church might explain why voting for a particular person would be a very bad idea, but not say one has to vote for a particular person.

I live in a swing state; I will vote for Romney. If I did not live in a swing state, if I lived in California or Kansas, then I would probably vote 3rd party, altho I don’t feel as strongly about that now as I did earlier in this race or in the 08 election, when I *really. really. really *wanted to vote 3rd party!

I am not going to vote this election.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Once more, if we were narrowed down to only one choice as who to vote for, why doesn’t the Church simply say, 'Catholics can only vote for ‘candidate X’? Is the Church exempt from fighting evil the same as you place me responsible for by voting?

Did all of the apostles chosen by Jesus remain faithful to him? No, we had Judas who
betrayed him for 30pieces of silver and Peter who in the end was faithful, but denied him
3 times.
We have been given a free will and the Church in the US is barred from endorsing a
candidate and some bishops follow that beyond the letter of the law.

Take it upon yourself to research our Church’s teachings and then make a decision.
It’ll feel good. I hope you make the one that makes the most sense!!!

 

[qui_est_ce]

Do you believe that if all the Christians in Rome had buckled and lied about their faith to avoid the lions that the Church that things would have turned out the same way?

In fact, that is NOT what the Holy Spirit prompted them to do, or what they did.

The seed of the Church turned out to be the blood of the martyrs. That came at a huge cost. It was not fatalistic. They knew what they were doing.

We need to stand up and defend our faith, even if we get martyred for it. I will not vote for a president who wants Catholic institutions to go against their moral values. I will not vote for a president who believes in unfettered abortion. I will not vote for a president who is bankrupting our country.

I will vote for someone I believe will protect our right to practice our religion in public.

My liberal family members are totally ridiculing me and calling me immoral for voting RR. I know all liberals don’t do this. But I am being demonized in the family.

 

[jim1130]

The Church only gives us moral guidelines–the prudential part of the decision is up to the appropriate person. When it comes to voting, those persons would be us.

The Church will not tell us whom to vote for. For one thing, circumstances vary in many different ways. The Church might explain why voting for a particular person would be a very bad idea, but not say one has to vote for a particular person.

Actually, that’s fairly recent. The US government threatens the Church about endorsing candidates, saying that it will revoke tax exemption. But some churches do it anyway. Problem is that the Catholic Church is easy to target for the IRS since we have deep pockets. It goes with being the largest single religious group in the US.

I live in a swing state; I will vote for Romney. If I did not live in a swing state, if I lived in California or Kansas, then I would probably vote 3rd party, altho I don’t feel as strongly about that now as I did earlier in this race or in the 08 election, when I *really. really. really *wanted to vote 3rd party!

Good for you. This is realistic.

I refer to the 5 non-negotiables before I vote.