Pretty much had it with my wife

[jmcrae]

If she has ADD, then the reason she leaves things out is in order to be able to find them again.

The solution is to label every drawer and every cupboard with a list of what’s in it (or should be in it). Labels should be specific - they shouldn’t say “clothes” - they should say, “Name’s” pant suits and dresses - “Name’s” suits - “Name’s” underwear - etc. The labels on the kitchen cupboards shouldn’t say “dishes” - they should say “coffee cups and dessert plates”, “drinking glasses,” “cereal bowls,” etc.

 

[jc4751]

Let me start off by saying that I am not perfect. Also, I realize that you will only be getting one side of the story here. Nonetheless, I will try my best to be as accurate and charitable as possible.

I am getting closer and closer to being at my wits end with my wife. We have a toddler and another child on the way. This hasn’t been the easiest pregnancy thus far, so I am trying to cut her slack; however, these problems existed before she got pregnant (indeed, before we had any kids). The issue is that I do most of the work around the house and run most of the errands; furthermore, I am also the breadwinner of the house. Actually, for the past three years since our first child was born, I’ve been the sole income earner with my wife as the stay at home.

I don’t know if I am being unreasonable, but I don’t think I should be expected to do most of the cleaning, most of the errand running and grocery shopping, cleaning up after the cats, taking out the garbage, as well as all the cooking over the weekend. I even have to many times cook for myself (and sometimes even the whole family) when I get home for work. Now, she will typically do all the laundry; however, even then, the clean laundry will many times sit there for days before it is even folded. We have lived in our new place for two years now and are just getting around to picking out curtains for the kitchen—and it is still mostly on my own doing. I went to the store to buy the rods and will probably lead the process of getting the curtains selected and put up. Also, one of our picture frames broke over the last couple of months–nothing has been done about it, so I am just going to have to suck it up and go out and buy one myself.

I know some of these things may seem like minor issues, but that is also part of the point. Why does every single, minor issue having to do with the home need to be on my plate? These are things that I think that my wife–as the stay at home mom and homemaker (I sort of say this tounge-in-cheek as she shouldn’t even have the right to call herself a homemaker)–can and should take responsibility for. Even small chores like vacuuming the rug many times will not get done unless I have to complain about it first. I actually take this personally because she doesn’t have to nag me to get up at 6AM and go to work to support our family—I just do it.

The issue is that I am starting to look at her as a slovenly person who doesn’t care what our house looks like, or the fact that it bothers me. Does anyone think I am being overly critical? I know it is hard to get into all the issues within one post. Has anyone had to deal with similar issues?

Thanks.

Your situation isn’t unique from what I’ve seen. My cousin has a similar situation, I have a friend who recently got divorced over issues like this with her husband.

Counseling makes sense, but both parties have to want to change.

The thing here that is most important is your children, though. Would you die for your children? (it’s a rhetorical question) A couple of years ago, my wife went off on me in front of about fifty of our friends at family at a party over something I’d forgotten to do. Even when I fixed the problem and came back, I saw her still going on about it.

That night, we went home and I told her that if she ever did anything like that again, we were done, at which point she said “Go ahead, get out.” I caught my breath for a second, remembered our kids and how much it would impact them, and abandoned the idea. Not the first or last time that’s happened. So, I sympathize.

I know it’s no fun to deal with a spouse that is being lazy, mean, pick something. Jesus Christ hung on a cross for us, and we all have our own crosses to bear. One of our friends committed adultery, his wife bears the consequence of his sin, but did not divorce him.

I’ll pray for you and your family.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks to both of you for this suggestion–I’ll look for the book.

Your wife might also like “The Side-Tracked Home Executives: From Pigpen to Paradise”. It is about two sisters who grew up in a clean home, but since their mom did everything were totally useless as housekeepers themselves. One ended up divorced, one ended up much happier when she had a clean home for her long-suffering husband, but both learned to be organized and pleased to be organized. After all, chaos is not an easy way to live! Very much on the FlyLady vein, maybe a bit more for people who aren’t perfectionists who get distracted in doing one thing “just right” while their house falls down around them, and another book that libraries are likely to have. They take no part of organizational skill for granted!

Go to Amazon.com and read the reviews; I think you’ll hear some familiar stories.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Your wife might also like “The Side-Tracked Home Executives: From Pigpen to Paradise”. It is about two sisters who grew up in a clean home, but since their mom did everything were totally useless as housekeepers themselves. One ended up divorced, one ended up much happier when she had a clean home for her long-suffering husband, but both learned to be organized and pleased to be organized. After all, chaos is not an easy way to live! Very much on the FlyLady vein, maybe a bit more for people who aren’t perfectionists who get distracted in doing one thing “just right” while their house falls down around them, and another book that libraries are likely to have. They take no part of organizational skill for granted!

Go to Amazon.com and read the reviews; I think you’ll hear some familiar stories.

Marla used their system and that is how she designed her own way of doing things.

 

[buzzoff1031]

I honestly didn’t take the time to read through all these posts, but I am in an incredibly similar situation, except with no kids. My priest said to me, in my situation (with my wife also being an unbeliever), I should lovingly, and with joy, give everything I can. Since my happiness in this life is unimportant, and since sacrifice can’t go to far, he said do what I had to so that I may, as the Apostle Paul said, sanctify my wife through my faith.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I was in pretty much the same situation as the OP when my wife & I first got married. It was extremely difficult on me because my parents’ house was always spotless yet I had no chores so I had the benefit of an immaculate house without having to contribute to the upkeep. My wife, on the other hand, was expected to do nearly 100% of the chores at her parents’ house. Between her parents and our son, no matter how hard she worked the best she could get it was messy. As a result, once we were married she didn’t want to do the housework while I was essentially clueless. After a couple weeks, though, I picked up the slack and was doing 100% of the cooking and yard work, and virtually all the remaining work except the laundry (it took many more years before I figured that out), not to mention taking care of well over 98% of the responsibilities regarding our son. Oh, and our house was a fixer-upper, so I was doing all the fixing up as well. Plus working two jobs (a minimum of 80 hours per week).

After more than a year of this I was just as frustrated as the OP. I had managed to get her to take on a few tasks, plus she was finally working, but I still did all the handyman stuff, all the yard work, and the vast majority of everything else. Screaming and arguments didn’t get me anywhere, nor did passive aggressive or childish behaviors, like refusing to do the chores she refused to do (that just resulted in bigger messes that I’d still have to clean up at some point).

I finally sat down with her and calmly talked about how to divide things more evenly. The first couple dozen talks like this didn’t go well since she felt she was doing more than her fair share. I started listing the chores, though, and eventually we were able to compromise and work things out. It took a few years of trial and error, but we came to a balance that works for us and doesn’t drive either of us insane. The only exception is after she’s had a baby; then I (gladly) take on 100% of the chores while she recovers.

 

[Armyvet007]

Thank God [seriously] that I found this thread and now know I am not alone in regards to this situation. I literally feel like the live-in housekeeper/baby-sitter instead of the husband.

 

[katolsk]

Thank God [seriously] that I found this thread and now know I am not alone in regards to this situation. I literally feel like the live-in housekeeper/baby-sitter instead of the husband.

Same with me. I used to have resentment but after remembering that my main responsibility is to love my wife, things got better. I’m also an army vet, so I was experienced at cleaning anything. Things have gotten better with her doing more, but I must admit that I still have resentments when I see her on Facebook and reading blogs so much. I have developed a strong dislike for habitual Facebook users.

 

[kristacecilia]

Here is my two cents… so you can decide what they are worth…

First of all, it sounds like you have reasonable expectations for cleanliness and general order in your house. So that’s good.

It sounds like your wife probably has a very different idea of what a house should look like (from how she was raised) and has very little idea of how to get there. You’d be surprised at how complicated keeping a house can seem. In practice it’s not really very complicated, just a great deal of work and keeping on top of things, but if you have no clue how to get from A (where you are to B (where you are going)… it can seem very intimidating and nearly impossible.

Second. Developing habits and virtues doesn’t happen overnight, unless it’s a true miracle. It takes years and necessity to bring about true change. Learning how to be a homemaker is a true job… and it’s not one you get to get training for before you jump in with both feet anymore. Most mothers and grandmothers (or fathers, for that matter) are not teaching their children how to care for a home anymore. It definitely sounds like your mother never received the training for it.

I grew up in a clean house with a SAHM who is a good homemaker and cook and it has still taken me EIGHT YEARS and FIVE CHILDREN to feel even remotely confident about my ability to care for my home and build a true family culture. It has happened slowly when things became necessary for me to master. Back when I only had a kid or two, I could ignore stuff. Does it really matter if I don’t keep the floors clean? Not really. I can run the vacuum. The laundry can be ignored until later, except maybe the diapers. I’ll cook something… maybe. Most of the time I spent online, honestly. I was bored and desperate for adult interaction. Maybe some of it was slight depression, who knows?

Now… I am so busy I can barely catch my breath. I have HAD to- out of necessity- master laundry and meals (and that was just recently!). I HAVE to have a general outline of house cleaning and when it needs to be done so I don’t forget about things. I homeschool and my children are only getting older so I HAVE to make sure we are doing school everyday and be constantly monitoring and evaluating how/what they are doing. My children are old enough that virtue training and habit building are extremely important and I HAVE to set a good example AND train them. It’s a completely different ball game- but it all happened slowly and out of necessity.

YOU READ this blog entry from a mother of seven whose children are mostly grown. She writes to help young mothers learn to care for their homes, their families, and build a true Catholic culture in their homes. Your wife sounds like she has no sense of urgency or necessity, no true idea on how to approach homemaking. All that is pretty normal, IMO. Not okay, just normal.

Maybe after YOU read that blog you could bring up things gently with your wife. Very gently. Mothers take homemaking and mothering very personally. We know what we SHOULD do and when some criticizes our attempts (or lack there of) even if kindly meant- we take it personally and can become even more discouraged and depressed. Because we know we are failing. Anyway, I am sure your wife could find a great deal of encouragement and practical advice from that blog, but you are going to have to approach it very carefully with her.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[kristacecilia]

I also wanted to add that all Monica’s advice is very practical and helpful! I second anything she says!

 

[rayne89]

Thank God [seriously] that I found this thread and now know I am not alone in regards to this situation. I literally feel like the live-in housekeeper/baby-sitter instead of the husband.

Babysitter? Are you watching other people’s children?

 

[faithfully]

I am getting closer and closer to being at my wits end with my wife. We have a toddler and another child on the way. This hasn’t been the easiest pregnancy thus far, so I am trying to cut her slack; however, these problems existed before she got pregnant (indeed, before we had any kids).

It is unreasonable to expect a bad situation to get better while a woman is PG.

I don’t know if I am being unreasonable, but I don’t think I should be expected to do most of the cleaning, most of the errand running and grocery shopping, cleaning up after the cats, taking out the garbage, as well as all the cooking over the weekend. I even have to many times cook for myself (and sometimes even the whole family) when I get home for work. Now, she will typically do all the laundry; however, even then, the clean laundry will many times sit there for days before it is even folded. We have lived in our new place for two years now and are just getting around to picking out curtains for the kitchen—and it is still mostly on my own doing. I went to the store to buy the rods and will probably lead the process of getting the curtains selected and put up. Also, one of our picture frames broke over the last couple of months–nothing has been done about it, so I am just going to have to suck it up and go out and buy one myself.

A PG woman should NEVER clean a cat box. Google that. SERIOUS health risk to your baby! I’m married to a pro chef. The idea of him doing all the shopping is not weird at all. He works easily 15 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. He also does a ton of our cooking. He did tha cat box. He lifted the trash. He puts his own dang laundry away. He wouldn’t give a hoot about curtains or picture frames. I would and would get things as I could afford them.

I know some of these things may seem like minor issues, but that is also part of the point. Why does every single, minor issue having to do with the home need to be on my plate? These are things that I think that my wife–as the stay at home mom and homemaker (I sort of say this tounge-in-cheek as she shouldn’t even have the right to call herself a homemaker)–can and should take responsibility for. Even small chores like vacuuming the rug many times will not get done unless I have to complain about it first. I actually take this personally because she doesn’t have to nag me to get up at 6AM and go to work to support our family—I just do it.

Intersting… these are MINOR issues by your words. Does she not do MAJOR things? Does she fail to feed your children, keep them in clean clothes. Change diapers in a timely manner. When you run after a child, you have to prioritize. WHAT’S your WIFE’S PRIORITY?

The issue is that I am starting to look at her as a slovenly person who doesn’t care what our house looks like, or the fact that it bothers me. Does anyone think I am being overly critical? I know it is hard to get into all the issues within one post. Has anyone had to deal with similar issues?

My husband can deal with an amazing amount of clutter. I CAN’T STAND it. So, I get very frustrated when I clean the house, and he behaves like a tornado. I have started making “executive” decisions about his things. If he cares about them, he will care FOR them. Thanks.

. Her parent’s house is like a disaster.

Unless her parents just started living like this… Forget it. She’s used to living in a disaster. She doesn’t even SEE it. A clean house is nice, but not necessary for her. It’s like all the options on a new car. Some people are perfectly fine with a low end, used car, stock. Others are horrified at the thought. Had you not “met the parents” prior to marriage? Did they scrape the house clean? I wonder why your expectations of her home life would be any better?

Thank you very much. We actually did make a list of chores (this was before her second pregancy). The list, from my perspective as the person who was also responsible for supporting the family, was not very evenly divided. And she STILL couldn’t manage to get everything on her list done (and remember, this was before her second pregnancy).

Did your husband help out around the house during your pregnancies?

1. This is why people are talking about ADD. A person that can’t get through a list probably has a hard time focusing. To expect such a person to focus is not reasonable. Adult or not. You have to look at from a more EXTREME view. If a person were OBVIOUSLY mentally challenged you’d have lower expectations. But since it’s not “obvious” to you, then you hold her to your own skill set.
2. My husband helped and STILL helps tremendously. We have twins however. Dad’s seem to get it better when there are two babies. His brain immediatley says she can’t pick up two screaming babies at the same moment. And still change a diaper. He does it ALL! A VERY involved father. He would never consider himself a “babysitter” as another dad here referred to himself.

 

[faithfully]

… … i’m going to exploit the progress made by my “get rid of the cats” suggestion.

get rid of lots of stuff.

here’s a true story: my neighbor had a profoundly messy wife. their house was a disaster. after years of strife over this, she was diagnosed with ADD. like most people with attention deficit, she didnt really suffer from a DEFICIT of attention. she suffered from an ABUNDANCE of attention. every speck, every sound, every breeze caught her attention and captured it. at least till the next speck/ sound or breeze passed by.

her house was a wreck because she couldnt focus on any one thing. everything vied for attention and tossed her about. she was distracted and defeated.

And now I would involved a Doctor… I think this post SCREAMS volumes.

I don’t think this really needs any counseling like many are suggesting. All you need to do is sit down and talk with your wife. Present your side and tell her she needs to pick up some slack. Having to do all of this work at home and then having to go to work everyday is stressing you out completely. Her being pregnant should not be a cop out to not do some house work. When you talk to her you don’t have to be confrontational about it just talk to her one night while watching tv or something.

This made me laugh. I don’t think it’s a cop out either. But as a twin mother who measured 9 months PG at 3 MONTHS , I know for a fact it can be wildly difficult to even move. If you’d like to try, strap a 30 lb beach ball to your belly and get to basic chores… Report back. This experiment should be done over a 7 day period MINIMUM without removing the weight. It would be good to know how well you sleep (have someone punch you once in a while when your SOUND asleep, just for effect), I gained 40 lbs with my twin pg, I lost 30 lbs in 4 days! it’s ALL in the front!

She has had pretty much a lifetime of looking at domestic chaos.

Which should tell you, she’s not NOT HELPING… She’s living life as she understands it. You probably look like a crazy neat freak. Perhaps with a bit of OCD to her. I bet she even finds your cleaning habits annoying. Live a little!

I imagine she either feels overwhelmed… PG, toddler, ADD??? Or thinks it’s all good, and you’re just a nag.

I’d be super curious as to what made you ever think she’d be a good housekeeper?

 

[EasterJoy]

Unless her parents just started living like this… Forget it. She’s used to living in a disaster. She doesn’t even SEE it. A clean house is nice, but not necessary for her. It’s like all the options on a new car. Some people are perfectly fine with a low end, used car, stock. Others are horrified at the thought. Had you not “met the parents” prior to marriage? Did they scrape the house clean? I wonder why your expectations of her home life would be any better?

1. This is why people are talking about ADD. A person that can’t get through a list probably has a hard time focusing. To expect such a person to focus is not reasonable. Adult or not. You have to look at from a more EXTREME view. If a person were OBVIOUSLY mentally challenged you’d have lower expectations. But since it’s not “obvious” to you, then you hold her to your own skill set.
2. My husband helped and STILL helps tremendously. We have twins however. Dad’s seem to get it better when there are two babies. His brain immediatley says she can’t pick up two screaming babies at the same moment. And still change a diaper. He does it ALL! A VERY involved father. He would never consider himself a “babysitter” as another dad here referred to himself.

I wouldn’t be so sure she doesn’t see it. That may be true, but she may also not think that a well-kept home is a realistic goal, or not except for “when we’re having company”. That’s one of the nice things about the FlyLady…she lets you know that you don’t have to live so that your house is always immediately ready for guests, but you can keep it 15-30 minutes from being that way.

There aren’t a lot of people who wouldn’t rather live in a reasonably clean and organized space than a chaotic one where you’re afraid someone might drop by to visit, the kitchen hasn’t to be tidied before you can even use it, and you can’t find anything. A perfectionistic standard of housekeeping can make a home feel like a prison, but a reasonably well-kept house is enjoyable to be in. It feels good to keep a home like that. What doesn’t feel good is to want that and not feel as if you are good enough to achieve it. That can be very depressing. Having people assume that you just don’t know better or just don’t care can be depressing, too, if not insulting.

 

[faithfully]

I wouldn’t be so sure she doesn’t see it. That may be true, but she may also not think that a well-kept home is a realistic goal, or not except for “when we’re having company”. That’s one of the nice things about the FlyLady…she lets you know that you don’t have to live so that your house is always immediately ready for guests, but you can keep it 15-30 minutes from being that way.

There aren’t a lot of people who wouldn’t rather live in a reasonably clean and organized space than a chaotic one where you’re afraid someone might drop by to visit, the kitchen hasn’t to be tidied before you can even use it, and you can’t find anything. A perfectionistic standard of housekeeping can make a home feel like a prison, but a reasonably well-kept house is enjoyable to be in. It feels good to keep a home like that. What doesn’t feel good is to want that and not feel as if you are good enough to achieve it. That can be very depressing. Having people assume that you just don’t know better or just don’t care can be depressing, too, if not insulting.

Lots of potential issues here. We just don’t know. Just giving one idea. I don’t know the woman, nor do I assume anything about her.

I do wonder why anyone seeing the environment she grew up in would expect her to be different. UNLESS, she was super tidy between home and marriage.

 

[ebonykawai]

I honestly didn’t take the time to read through all these posts, but I am in an incredibly similar situation, except with no kids. My priest said to me, in my situation (with my wife also being an unbeliever), I should lovingly, and with joy, give everything I can. Since my happiness in this life is unimportant, and since sacrifice can’t go to far, he said do what I had to so that I may, as the Apostle Paul said, sanctify my wife through my faith.

This is beautiful! Theology of the Body exactly!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I will tell you something. My husband does very little around the house, never has. That was the way we divided the labor when we had our first son. (Before that, I worked too.) He did the paid work, I did everything else. It was too much, really. The scales were not balanced, because I did ALL the child minding, along with ALL of the housework, laundry, arranging for repairs, etc. even yard work at first. I could keep up with it when the kids were small, however, because they didn’t generate a lot of laundry or make huge messes. I mean, the worst I had to deal with was the clutter of their toys, or the occasional spill on the kitchen floor. We had rules about not eating or drinking in any other room than the kitchen.

His mother and dad are BOTH neat freaks, to the point where I would define it as OCS on his father’s part. His mother is mainly just fussy. But he never had chores, his mother did it all. So he likes a clean home but won’t help clean it! And, he is a piler - he HAS to make piles and they have to be visible in order to stay in his mind. He is a neat piler, though.

I have become a lot more cluttered as the kids have grown. My bugbear is always paper - the stuff pours in here by the ton and I never know what exactly to do with it - I used to have a system but over time, with a move, all my previous habits and structures sort of went by the wayside. I am much more relaxed about housekeeping and I actually think I strike a decent balance between keeping a clean home and being a total jerk about any crumb left anywhere.

What NEVER HELPS me is when hubby sees a mess and then goes about cleaning it, but with a nasty attitude, as if he shouldn’t HAVE to do it. In response, I get angry at him for making a big deal about it. My internal conversation goes, “You XXX. It is not hurting you to clean the table for a change. Why does everything have to be a problem with you? I am not a slob and I resent your attitude about the house.” etc. etc. etc.

So what I am saying is that anyone who wants to “improve” their spouse and help around the house…Watch your attitude. If the spouse feels as if you are the parent, and are disgusted with them, guess what - that won’t work. Mentally, I flip my husband the bird when he’s nastily cleaning the kitchen (and then I have to confess it). Childish of me? Yes, but his attitude also doesn’t help.

This is why I recommend a counselor - to be the middle man and allow all the feelings around these issues to be run through a 3rd party. Housework is just housework but sometimes it gets tied up with other junk from our childhoods.

 

[EasterJoy]

Lots of potential issues here. We just don’t know. Just giving one idea. I don’t know the woman, nor do I assume anything about her.

I do wonder why anyone seeing the environment she grew up in would expect her to be different. UNLESS, she was super tidy between home and marriage.

I remember Pam Young and Peggy Jones saying they thought that neatness skipped generations. Their mother was very neat, they were total slobs, and their children were neat. I guess kids can get it from somewhere! Besides, a lot of families get the mess stuffed into a closet or a back bedroom when company comes, or apologize as if the mess were some kind of an anamoly.

It is possible that she just doesn’t see it, though, that is absolutely true. If she said so, I’d believe her. I would just caution her husband about the perils of making that assumption out loud. True or not, that could be dangerous to his health!

 

[faithfully]

i remember pam young and peggy jones saying they thought that neatness skipped generations. Their mother was very neat, they were total slobs, and their children were neat. I guess kids can get it from somewhere! :d besides, a lot of families get the mess stuffed into a closet or a back bedroom when company comes, or apologize as if the mess were some kind of an anamoly.

It is possible that she just doesn’t see it, though, that is absolutely true. If she said so, i’d believe her.** i would just caution her husband about the perils of making that assumption out loud. True or not, that could be dangerous to his health! :eek**:

agreed!!!

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thankyou everyone for your contributions. I’ve found it invaluable reading this thread for the insights into tidyiness, housekeeping, and the conflicts involved.

Reading this has also made me glad that I always insisted on my children doing some of the chores. Even though this added to my burdens at the time (with the arguments, excuses, etc…), I felt that it was a very important part of their upbringing, and also part of preparing them for marriage. I am pleased that they are all now willing and capable of tidying, washing, and cooking.

It does seem to be important to not let different expectations of what is reasonable tidyness, and who should do what, to escalate into major conflict or resentment.