Preventable loss of the Blessed Sacrament

[theistgal]

I receive the Eucharist regularly in both the Byzantine Catholic Rite and the Latin Rite. In the B.C. it’s distributed under both species, at the end of a long golden spoon which is put into the communicant’s mouth by the priest, while two altar servers stand holding a cloth under the area to catch anything that spills.

And yet – even with all those precautions – accidents still happen. Last week the priest accidentally spilled the contents of the spoon onto a baby’s blanket and we had to stop and clean it up before the others in line could receive.

Also, one time I attended a “traditional Latin Mass” where everyone knelt and received Communion on the tongue - and I saw a man who’d received that way stand up, spit the Host onto the carpet and run out of the Church before anyone could stop him.

Accidents happen no matter how the Eucharist is distributed. And if someone really wants to deliberately abuse Christ in the Sacrament, unfortunately, they’ll find a way to do it no matter how they receive.

 

[Father_Fred]

Considering that they most likely already revceive on the tongue and still deal with scrupulosity, no, I don’t think so.

Since the issue of scrupulosity has appeared in previous posts (see ##16, 21, 23, 32, 34), it will help to read what St. Ignatius of Loyola says about scruples in his Spiritual Exercises, paragraph 374 (=second note), where someone can’t make up his mind whether he has sinned or not. ccel.org/ccel/ignatius/exercises.xix.iv.html

Applying this to receiving Holy Communion, three (or more) tormenting questions can come up:

1. Am I in the necessary state of sanctifying grace?
   This need not, and probably doesn’t, involve the method of receiving Communion.
   *]Is what I see in my hand a Fragment of the Blessed Sacrament?
   Because this thread is only about clearly recognizable Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament (Fact 1, post #1), this problem is better solved elsewhere. Meanwhile, a prayerful reading of St. Ignatius will help.
   *]Where no communion patens are used, am I obliged to receive Communion in the hand? See Fact 5, post #1[/INDENT].
   Given that your hand is the only remaining means of preserving the Sacred Species, I think so.
   I am not opposed in principle to Communion in the hand properly done. A main contention of this thread is that, for the majority of CHs, Communion in the hand is not properly done because most Church authorities are not inculcating the ordinary means for getting it done.
   Where do you find “Check your ‘paten hand’” in this instruction from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops?
   **
   When receiving Holy Communion in the hand, the communicant bows his or her head before the sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.​
   **.

 

[Father_Fred]

Since the issue of scrupulosity has appeared in previous posts (see ##16, 21, 23, 32, 34), it will help to read what St. Ignatius of Loyola says about scruples in his Spiritual Exercises, paragraph 347 (=second note), where someone can’t make up his mind whether he has sinned or not. ccel.org/ccel/ignatius/exercises.xix.iv.html

Applying this to receiving Holy Communion, three (or more) tormenting questions can come up:

1. Am I in the necessary state of sanctifying grace?
   This need not, and probably doesn’t, involve the method of receiving Communion.
   *]Is what I see in my hand a Fragment of the Blessed Sacrament?
   Because this thread is only about clearly recognizable Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament (Fact 1, post #1), this problem is better solved elsewhere. Meanwhile, a prayerful reading of St. Ignatius will help.
   *]Where no communion patens are used, am I obliged to receive Communion in the hand? See Fact 5, post #1[/INDENT].
   Given that your hand is the only remaining means of preserving the Sacred Species, I think so.
   I am not opposed in principle to Communion in the hand properly done. A main contention of this thread is that, for the majority of CHs, Communion in the hand is not properly done because most Church authorities are not inculcating the ordinary means for getting it done.
   Where do you find “Check your ‘paten hand’” in this instruction from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops?
   **
   When receiving Holy Communion in the hand, the communicant bows his or her head before the sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.​
   **.

1. 
   I have edited this for format and typos, still learning how to use tags. [Signed] Father Fred.

 

[Father_Fred]

Accidents happen no matter how the Eucharist is distributed. And if someone really wants to deliberately abuse Christ in the Sacrament, unfortunately, they’ll find a way to do it no matter how they receive.

True. And loss from Communion in the hand today is accidental for most Eucharistic ministers and recipients.

But it is still loss of the Living Lord Jesus Christ, and it is still preventable. See post #20 and the close of post #42, “Where do you find . . . Bishops?”

That’s why it must stop at all costs.

 

[Father_Fred]

Accidents happen no matter how the Eucharist is distributed. And if someone really wants to deliberately abuse Christ in the Sacrament, unfortunately, they’ll find a way to do it no matter how they receive.

True. And loss of the Living Lord Jesus Christ through Communion in the hand nowadays is probably accidental, unintended, by most Eucharistic ministers and recipients.

But it is still Jesus, still loss, and still preventable. See post #20 and post #42, “Where do you find . . . Bishops?” toward the end.

That’s why it must stop at all costs.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

True. And loss of the Living Lord Jesus Christ through Communion in the hand nowadays is probably accidental, unintended, by most Eucharistic ministers and recipients.

But it is still Jesus, still loss, and still preventable. See post #20 and post #42, “Where do you find . . . Bishops?” toward the end.

That’s why it must stop at all costs.

You have never shown that ‘potential loss’ has any reality.

Dropped recognizable fragments are retrieved once spotted.

 

[Father_Fred]

You have never shown that ‘potential loss’ has any reality…

Are we agreed that an unnoticed Fragment in the hand can be lost?

Dropped recognizable fragments are retrieved once spotted.

Limiting ourselves for the moment to recognizable Fragments dropped into the hand, are we agreed that they are not always spotted?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Are we agreed that an unnoticed Fragment in the hand can be lost?

Limiting ourselves for the moment to recognizable Fragments dropped into the hand, are we agreed that they are not always spotted?

If they are recognizable they will be spotted and not lost.

 

[MrS]

Interesting discussion Fr. Fred. By now you may have experienced a higher level of frustration. It is again obvious that there are some Catholics who find this a genuine concern, some who think it is really not important, and the middle group who just don’t care or don’t get it.

While the potential exists for ‘loss’ (if that is even accurate description since someone tends to consume dropped hosts and fragments of significant size) should the Church foster unhealthy attitudes under the mask of ‘reverence’?

I would be interested in knowing of one instance where the Church has fostered unhealthy attitudes, much less under a mask of reverence.

Granted there are some clergy who are “irreverent” in the liturgy, and they “foster” that same attitude by instructing their flock to do the same (insert list of abuses that have become “norms” here)

And there are some clergy and laity who shun many traditions as something that only is “reverent” to those who love those traditions, Now that is unhealthy by the one group as they repress the concerns of the other group.

But the Church? Come on E.M., what is your real concern here.

.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

But the Church? Come on E.M., what is your real concern here.

.

That some are trying to swap out ‘recognizable’ and raise the level of paranoia about ‘loss’ to unhealthy levels.

 

[MrS]

That some are trying to swap out ‘recognizable’ and raise the level of paranoia about ‘loss’ to unhealthy levels.

I guess I just have some trouble understanding why concern for “loss” of the Real Presence (in any “size”) could become unhealthy. Especially when there were, and still are, means to safeguard the loss.

I really have to agree with Fr Fred if he implies that the level of “concern” for loss is close if not directly proportional to the level of belief in the Real Presence.

After all, this is God we are talking about, not some holy symbol.

.

 

[Father_Fred]

If they are recognizable they will be spotted and not lost.

From post #1 we have these Basic Facts:

1. No document from Rome or from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops instructs CHs to check their “paten hand” for Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament and to consume any found.
2. Neither does any US bishop I know of so instruct and enforce his instructions. Please name one or more who does.
3. Where these enforced instructions are not in place, not one CH in ten checks his “paten hand” for Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament and consumes any found.

In the light of Fact 8 are we agreed that some recognizable Fragments dropped into the hand of a CH are not looked for?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

From post #1 we have these Basic Facts:

1. No document from Rome or from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops instructs CHs to check their “paten hand” for Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament and to consume any found.

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

1. Neither does any US bishop I know of so instruct and enforce his instructions. Please name one or more who does.

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

1. Where these enforced instructions are not in place, not one CH in ten checks his “paten hand” for Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament and consumes any found.

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

In the light of Fact 8 are we agreed that some recognizable Fragments dropped into the hand of a CH are not looked for?

No - we are not in agreement at all.

 

[THurifer2]

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

No - we are not in agreement at all.

some people relish being oppositional defiant. Pride drives their will…they simply cannot suffer the loss of being wrong so they set up a relativistic systems that allows only their viewpoint the correct one. They view themselves and their systems are avant-garde but in reality they have self image problems. Oft times these same people ask questions that are more rhetorical than a genuine inquiry. These people are very difficult to get along with. They are very lonely. I have only really met one such person. This person was so oppositional they had to find a job that allowed them to work from home.

 

[MrS]

In the light of Fact 8 are we agreed that some recognizable Fragments dropped into the hand of a CH are not looked for?

absolutely

It only takes a few minutes to watch a couple dozen people receive in the hand to agree with you.

Most take and consume the Host, and their eyes never go to the other hand. They are watching where they walk, or looking at the sanctuary, or guiding their small ones.

I cannot remember seeing anyone receive and then pause or even walk away slowly while they inspect their hands.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

absolutely

It only takes a few minutes to watch a couple dozen people receive in the hand to agree with you.

Most take and consume the Host, and their eyes never go to the other hand. They are watching where they walk, or looking at the sanctuary, or guiding their small ones.

I cannot remember seeing anyone receive and then pause or even walk away slowly while they inspect their hands.

And they (of course) would not have noticed what was put in their hand or be able to feel what was on/in their hand.

 

[Writer]

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:

No - we are not in agreement at all.

I agree with you… Further, I would suggest that molecules of the Host may likely break away at times from the finger of the priest or minister and fall–whether taken by hand or tongue. I’d suggest we’re being a tad too legalistic here. We’re doing the best we are able as human beings. If we see a fragment, it will be taken care of. If we don’t see it (because of its tiny size), we’re still doing the best that can be expected or hoped for.

 

[MrS]

I agree with you… Further, I would suggest that molecules of the Host may likely break away at times from the finger of the priest or minister and fall–whether taken by hand or tongue. I’d suggest we’re being a tad too legalistic here. We’re doing the best we are able as human beings. If we see a fragment, it will be taken care of. If we don’t see it (because of its tiny size), we’re still doing the best that can be expected or hoped for.

We certainly hope that is the case. But the disagreement is not whether we are doing the best we can AFTER the partical falls… it is about doing the best we can BEFORE that may occure… and trying to prevent it.

IMHO I still feel that too many have little or no concern for even trying to show the maximum amount of reverence and care for the Body and Blood of the Lord. And I further equate that with a weak or lack of reverence and/or belief in the Real Presence Itself.

.

 

[MrS]

IF a recognizable fragment is on the ‘paten hand’ it would be noticed and taken care of. :doh2:
.

I should hope so.

Those who don’t “recognize” the Real Presence “as best they can” will hardly recognize a fragment.

But then, with all the people who receive communion (90%+ ??), we can assume that 90%+ are all being as reverent and careful “as best they can”

:banghead:

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I should hope so.

Those who don’t “recognize” the Real Presence “as best they can” will hardly recognize a fragment.

But then, with all the people who receive communion (90%+ ??), we can assume that 90%+ are all being as reverent and careful “as best they can”

:banghead:

The floors of your church littered with recognizable fragments after each mass?

Even if the person has a problem with believing in the Real Presence BUT they can see the Blessed Sacrament placed in their hand and recognize part of it still in their hand that needs to be consumed then there is NO LOSS.