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Deacon_Tony560
Guest
What do you think of the incident in Colorado, where a priest was arrested for an open flask of Sacramental wine? He was saying Mass in front of an abortion clinic.
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Veronica_Anne
Guest
Ya got a link to the news article on this?
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Deacon_Tony560
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Pyrosapien
Guest
I think the city will probably grant the variance. The intent of the law is not to prevent people from the free excercise of their religion. It is to prevent public drunkeness and civil disorder.
I just wonder if the ACLU will get involved to protect the religious freedom of this wonderful priest?
Steve
I just wonder if the ACLU will get involved to protect the religious freedom of this wonderful priest?
Steve
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jmm08
Guest
According to the article
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41634
the priest was only warned by a police officer of the open container.
The priest is quoted in the article as saying “I do not want to break the law. …” So I suppose the priest obeyed the police officer and was not arrested. Because the priest had the right attitude of not wanting to break the law and I suppose he instantly obeyed the policeman’s warning.
With minor offenses where some ignorance of the law may be present, the police will often initially give a warning or an order to stop. It seems to me that this would particularly be that case if clergy were involved.
And in this case, you cannot blame the police officer. Especially if they were following their written departmental procedures (I suppose this is very likely). I suppose that the priest and his group properly responded with an attitude of love and obedience to the law. There is nothing in the article that suggests otherwise.
Advice: in the early 1980’s I did a little bit of anti-abortion protesting. And I have otherwise sometimes participated in “public displays” of various Christian witnesses. It is a good idea to remember that the Police are primarily concerned with safety, and with maintaining peace and order. Therefore my advice is to always quickly obey a uniformed police officer in these kind of circumstances.
One time (near Easter), they didn’t appreciate how a group of us had a cross in the median of a busy road. You know, it can be an unsafe situation if there is too much traffic and since we weren’t wearing the typical bright colored vests that usual fund-raisers wear.
I am only in RCIA and I am a long ways away from being in “full communion”. My initial instinct is that it may not be wise to have Holy Communion outside an abortion clinic. I would be uncomfortable and wonder if Christ was being profaned. I am very much OK with holding up signs or publicly praying the rosary.
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41634
the priest was only warned by a police officer of the open container.
The priest is quoted in the article as saying “I do not want to break the law. …” So I suppose the priest obeyed the police officer and was not arrested. Because the priest had the right attitude of not wanting to break the law and I suppose he instantly obeyed the policeman’s warning.
With minor offenses where some ignorance of the law may be present, the police will often initially give a warning or an order to stop. It seems to me that this would particularly be that case if clergy were involved.
And in this case, you cannot blame the police officer. Especially if they were following their written departmental procedures (I suppose this is very likely). I suppose that the priest and his group properly responded with an attitude of love and obedience to the law. There is nothing in the article that suggests otherwise.
Advice: in the early 1980’s I did a little bit of anti-abortion protesting. And I have otherwise sometimes participated in “public displays” of various Christian witnesses. It is a good idea to remember that the Police are primarily concerned with safety, and with maintaining peace and order. Therefore my advice is to always quickly obey a uniformed police officer in these kind of circumstances.
One time (near Easter), they didn’t appreciate how a group of us had a cross in the median of a busy road. You know, it can be an unsafe situation if there is too much traffic and since we weren’t wearing the typical bright colored vests that usual fund-raisers wear.
I am only in RCIA and I am a long ways away from being in “full communion”. My initial instinct is that it may not be wise to have Holy Communion outside an abortion clinic. I would be uncomfortable and wonder if Christ was being profaned. I am very much OK with holding up signs or publicly praying the rosary.
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leonardoboff
Guest
Nothing wonderful about this.
I see this as an abuse of the eucharist celebration… what did this priest think he would achieve by celebrating mass in such a situation?
This kind of thing relegates the sacraments to something akin to the tools of witchcraft.
Accusations of bullying and intimidation are entirley fair…he should be charged with harrasment.
I see this as an abuse of the eucharist celebration… what did this priest think he would achieve by celebrating mass in such a situation?
This kind of thing relegates the sacraments to something akin to the tools of witchcraft.
Accusations of bullying and intimidation are entirley fair…he should be charged with harrasment.
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bob
Guest
Although admirable for protesting outside the abortion clinic, he is comitting a severe liturgical abuse.
Redemptionis Sacramentum states:
[108] The celebration of the Eucharist is to be carried out in a sacred place,unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise. In this case the celebration must be in a decent place.” The diocesan Bishop shall be the judge for his diocese concerning this necessity, on a case-by-case basis.
Outside an abortion clinic can hardly be a decent place.
Besides, once consecrated, great care must be taken to avoid spillage of the Precious Blood of Christ. I see a grave danger of spillage here!
Redemptionis Sacramentum states:
[108] The celebration of the Eucharist is to be carried out in a sacred place,unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise. In this case the celebration must be in a decent place.” The diocesan Bishop shall be the judge for his diocese concerning this necessity, on a case-by-case basis.
Outside an abortion clinic can hardly be a decent place.
Besides, once consecrated, great care must be taken to avoid spillage of the Precious Blood of Christ. I see a grave danger of spillage here!
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Digitonomy
Guest
Not clear whether you’re referring to the police officer or the priest. Either way, I see no justification for this in the article - do you have evidence from another article?
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Franciscum
Guest
Poppycock.
The Holy Sacirifce of the Mass is the most powerful prayer known to mankind. Given that outside of an abortion clinic may indeed be a “decent place”, I would suggest that offering the Mass could well be the single most powerful weapon we have to stop abortion and it should be employed when there is no chance of profanation of the Eucharist.
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bob
Guest
Firstly, if we disagree on issues, do not call names, use expletives or other rude exclamations.
I absolutely agree that “The Holy Sacirifce of the Mass is the most powerful prayer known to mankind.”
However, I am not sure that outside the abortion clinic can be a “decent place”. A car park or a road can hardly be a dignified place for a mass. What is the priest going use as an altar - the hood of a car?
The fact that he was caught holding the flask indicates to me that there was not going to be a proper decent setup for the mass. Is he going to “pass the bottle around”?
We can and should offer masses to stop abortions. BUT do it with decorum and dignity which the Holy Sacrifice deserves.
Having a mass outside an abortion clinic is not going to make it more prayerful or powerful, just messier.
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Franciscum
Guest
The fact is you have no clue about what it was like outside of that abortion clinic. It might have been quite nice.
Actually I think a nice flatbed truck outfitted to celebrate the Mass would be most appropriate…
P.S. A wine flask is a very common item for portable Mass kits. Only you are suggesting he was going to pass around a flask…
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bob
Guest
Neither do you.
Sure, nice, with pickets, slogans, shouting, chanting, praying and harrassing all around.
Not to mention non-Catholic protestors as well. Was he going to tell the non-Catholics not to come forward for the free bread and wine?
Very nice indeed! Extremely conducive atmosphere for a mass.
Proves you actually don’t know either.
Did he also carry his stole, chasuble, chalice, paten, pall, purificator, corporal, etc?
Yes, I was an altar boy in my earlier years.
I also designed a 51-chapter Powerpoint Presentation for the parish priest to teach RCIA. Of which three chapters were entirely devoted to the Mass including one to vestments, altar cloths, linens, vessels, etc.
Give me your email address and I will send you the relevant chapters.
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Deacon_Tony560
Guest
Outdoor Mass can definitely be a powerful force. Here in the Central Valley of California (The Big Valley as they use to show on T.V.), Mass for farm workers was frequemtly celebrated in the fields and still is at times. A little sturdy table is all that is needed. Our bishop has a real devotion to the poor, especially the farm workers. He has even brought Catholic Sisters from Mexico to minister to the families. We have small towns with no church that want Mass celebrated. The Sisters try to find buildings at schools Etc. and a traveling priest to have Mass on weekends. If they can’t find a building, I’M sure Mass would be held outside.
May God bless you,
Deacon Tony
May God bless you,
Deacon Tony
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bob
Guest
The outdoor mass in Big Valley is an entirely different scenario from that of the abortion clinic.
I have no objections to outdoor mass per se.
The Pope almost always have outdoor masses on his travels. I am sure he says mass in the mountains when he was a young priest.
I, however, very much doubt that the outdoor mass at the abortion clinic is any more efficative, powerful or prayerful than having one in church.
I have no objections to outdoor mass per se.
The Pope almost always have outdoor masses on his travels. I am sure he says mass in the mountains when he was a young priest.
I, however, very much doubt that the outdoor mass at the abortion clinic is any more efficative, powerful or prayerful than having one in church.
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Brendan
Guest
Why not the hood of a car?
Army Chaplains used to celebrate Mass on the hood of their jeep for the soldiers in the field. Was that wrong??
If the Church approved of a priest saying Mass on the hood of jeep to spiritually strengthen warriors fighting against mass murders in the past, why not now?
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Deacon2006
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Franciscum
Guest
It seems you have little experience with praying in front of abortion clinics. “Slogans, shouting, chanting, and harrassing all around” does not necessarily take place.Neither do you.
Sure, nice, with pickets, slogans, shouting, chanting, praying and harrassing all around.
Not to mention non-Catholic protestors as well. Was he going to tell the non-Catholics not to come forward for the free bread and wine?
Very nice indeed! Extremely conducive atmosphere for a mass.
Proves you actually don’t know either.
Did he also carry his stole, chasuble, chalice, paten, pall, purificator, corporal, etc?
Yes, I was an altar boy in my earlier years.
I also designed a 51-chapter Powerpoint Presentation for the parish priest to teach RCIA. Of which three chapters were entirely devoted to the Mass including one to vestments, altar cloths, linens, vessels, etc.
Give me your email address and I will send you the relevant chapters.
Being the expert that you are, you would know the chasable and pall and would not be essential in this sort of situation. His vesting may have consisted only of a small stole – much like military priests wear in combat.
Like Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy, I tend to discount anyone touting a “Powerpoint Presentation.” Most are a waste of resources. Thanks, but I’ll stick to the GIRM and other official documents, rather than rely on some slides by someone lacking authority and insight.
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Franciscum
Guest
I think very strong parallels can be drawn between wars fought by the military, and those fought by pro-life individuals. Your analogy is strong.
Let’s not forget the Masses celebrated in POW camps and prisons in extremely difficult positions…
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PASCENDI
Guest
The Poles even consecrated a bishop in Auchwitz right under the Nazi’s noses!
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Prester_John
Guest
What was his name?
Prester John
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