Priest Arrested For Open Sacramental Wine Container

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deacon_Tony560
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
bob,

There are “possible” abuses (as I stated earlier) during every Mass said across the globe, and there ARE many abuses that happen everyday across the globe, even in some of the most beautiful Churches on earth. Abuse is not only possible near an abortion clinic.

As for the effectiveness of a Mass said a thousand miles away, I am in complete agreement that every Mass is effective, no matter where it is said (your centurion example is a sound analogy).

The thing is, one can never know exactly what the the potential impact is to people who actually “see” the Mass said. Hardened hearts can be melted sometimes if they see with their eyes. As with your example of the centurion, try now to think of the example of Thomas, who had to see in order to believe. It takes a great deal to move a hardened heart (I should know, I am a stubborn sinner myself).

My bottom-line is this: If the Mass (close to the abortion clinic) was approved, and if the Priest followed all rubrics, then that Mass is every bit as Holy and Sacred as if it had been celebrated in a Cathedral. An authentic, approved and properly celebrated Mass (no matter the location) is always a Holy and Sacred act. Think of the early Church, when Mass was said in caves, and in homes, etc…it was not always said in glorious looking spaces. The physical location or building is NOT what makes the space Holy or Sacred, it is the presence of our Lord in the Mass that makes a place Sacred and Holy, no matter where the Mass is said.

Flip you point about location. If a Mass is effective one-thousand miles away from the abortion clinic, then it is AT LEAST equally effective one-hundred feet away from the abortion clinic.
 
My concern is that the priest would not have been in a state of grace when he said the mass.

In my archdioesce, both the current and past archbishops refused communion to people wearing the rainbow sash of the gay rights movement. The published reasons were NOT that they were gay or lesbian, but that because they were engaged in a political protest and had come to the mass with the protest in mind, not coming “as they were” so to speak, they were not in the appropriate state of grace to allow them to receive the sacrament.

Simply put, the act of protesting was the problem, not necessarily what the protest was about.

In a similar vein, then, because the priest was protesting the abortions, however admirable we might think he’d be, because he was protesting he might not be suitably disposed to celebrate.

Any thoughts?
 
40.png
TPJCatholic:
bob,

There are “possible” abuses (as I stated earlier) during every Mass said across the globe, and there ARE many abuses that happen everyday across the globe, even in some of the most beautiful Churches on earth. Abuse is not only possible near an abortion clinic.

… The physical location or building is NOT what makes the space Holy or Sacred, it is the presence of our Lord in the Mass that makes a place Sacred and Holy, no matter where the Mass is said.

Flip you point about location. If a Mass is effective one-thousand miles away from the abortion clinic, then it is AT LEAST equally effective one-hundred feet away from the abortion clinic.
Click to expand...
Did you not read Kitty Kat’s description of winos and rock music at the mass outside this clinic? You still think it’s ok? The priest(s) involved is(are) not even from the parish where the clinic is for heaven’s sakes!

You fail to understand Pope John Paul II’s important document Redemptionis Sacramentum.
This comes after years of abuse of the Liturgy of the Word and the Eucharist and the casual, careless attitude towards the mass.
He wants to put a stop to this, once and for all.

True, abuse can occur anywhere, that is why Redemptionis Sacramentum is for - to stop all abuses.

May I suggest that you buy a copy of the CD Redemptionis Sacramentum by Fr. Peter Stravinskas.
newadvent.catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=5182
He explains very clearly the reasons for this important Papal document.

You also fail to understand that the location is vital. I repeat Canon Law on the conditions of sacred and decent places.
Canon Law 932:
*"§1 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in a sacred place, unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise; in which case the celebration must be in a *fitting place. ** §2 The eucharistic Sacrifice must be carried out at an altar that is dedicated or blessed. Outside a sacred place an appropriate table may be used, but always with an altar cloth and a corporal."
It is THE LAW. Listen and obey. All priests have to.

Again I ask, where are you going to stop?
Masses at all places of sin, outside homes of sinners, politicians who vote for pro-abortions, outside no-Catholic churches, mosques, temples?

Remember that this is the year of the Holy Eucharist.
 
40.png
catholicbudgie:
My concern is that the priest would not have been in a state of grace when he said the mass.

In my archdioesce, both the current and past archbishops refused communion to people wearing the rainbow sash of the gay rights movement. The published reasons were NOT that they were gay or lesbian, but that because they were engaged in a political protest and had come to the mass with the protest in mind, not coming “as they were” so to speak, they were not in the appropriate state of grace to allow them to receive the sacrament.

Simply put, the act of protesting was the problem, not necessarily what the protest was about.

In a similar vein, then, because the priest was protesting the abortions, however admirable we might think he’d be, because he was protesting he might not be suitably disposed to celebrate.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
The state of grace of a priest does not invalidate the Eucharistic celebration if he follows the proper rubrics.

If it does, then all of us are in trouble, deep, deep trouble!
How would we then know if the mass or Eucharist you receive is valid?

Canon Law:
*Can. 900 §1 The only minister who, in the person of Christ, can bring into being the sacrament of the Eucharist, is a validly ordained priest.

§2 Any priest who is not debarred by canon law may lawfully celebrate the Eucharist, provided the provisions of the following canons are observed.*
 
Bob,

Outdoor stadiums, where sports are normally played for money and greed, are sacred places?

When a Catholic Church burns down and a parish has to celebrate Mass in a garage, or a gym, those are sacred places?

Battlefields, where people are brutally killed, are sacred places?

During the Last Supper, the upper room was a sacred place (before Jesus arrived)?

When the early Christians celebrated Mass in their homes, those were sacred places?

When the early Christians celebrated Mass in the catacombs, those were sacred places?

When Mass is celebrated in secret, in order to be able avoid hostile governments, those are sacred places?

There can be hundreds of other examples, Mass has been said in millions of different places since Christ ascended into Heaven.
Think it through…what actually makes all of those places become sacred? It is the Presence of our Lord that makes a place sacred. Material objects cannot be sacred unless the Lord makes them sacred–we humans cannot make anything sacred. Even when Priests bless or consecrate a “place,” it is the Lord that is actually doing the blessing through the actions of the Priest.

If the Bishop approved the Mass near the abortion clinic, and if the celebrating Priest followed all rubrics of the Mass, then that was a valid and sacred Mass…no matter where it is said. Now, if the Priest did it on his own, without approval and without following the rubrics, then that is a serious abuse.

The most serious cases of liturgical abuses are committed in some of the holiest looking Churches–abuse comes in many places and in many forms. Priests who seek approval for saying Mass outside the norms, who follow all rubrics and who are loyal to all teachings of the faith are in great demand.

Respectfully I submit that your attitude reminds me of the Pharisees (see Luke chapter 6), who tried to find a reason to accuse Jesus for doing good works on the Sabbath. We must not act like the Pharisees. Jesus walked among sinners…he came for the sinners. Everytime Mass is celebrated, no matter where it is celebrated, Jesus comes to us sinners.

Do not forget that even in the days of sacrifices at the Temple, it was the Presence of God that made the the Holy of Holies sacred.

Finally, consider these words from our Lord: "Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, is it lawful to do good on the sabbath rather than to do evil, to save life rather than to destroy it?"

[if there is any chance to save an innocent life, and all approvals and rubrics are followed…do you really think Jesus would object?]
 
Hey Bob,You wrote,"I was “attacked” 3 times by Fraciscum making disparaging remarks about my post(#9 Poppycock);
definition: pop·py·cock
n. Senseless talk; nonsense.

Bob, you are supersensitive if you think Poppycock is a word that shouldn’t be used. I do not believe that you think Poppycock is a word of degregation…you just ran out of ammunition and thought you’d complain a bit.

Truthfully I have to side with Franciscum in this matter. You seem to want to appear as a high brow and not listen to reason. Try again later on another topic. You have stepped off on the wrong foot.
JMJ
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top