Priest Arrested For Open Sacramental Wine Container

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I don’t think that anyone here would have a problem if permission was allowed, but I also know that there are a lot of people who were very upset by this and a parking lot may not always be the greatest place. It can be very upsetting to the local Catholics.

The location is in an older part of town which is usually very quiet, but can be a very liberal area. I would hate to see it gain a lot of public knowledge as most people don’t even realize that it exists and there are a lot of VERY liberal people in Colorado Springs that would be on every street corner in town with pro-choice or pro-abortion slogans. There are very few “fence sitters” here and people get very upset about differing views. I really do not want to see a huge fight around here as I know that some people would get very mean about this.
 
I just wanted to add that I personally believe that this could be used to do great things, but I also have lived in Colorado, in and around Colorado Springs, my entire life and I would hate to lose some one that is willing to provide help to women after this. I was told how understanding he is as a counselor on this topic by a Priest.

I personally hope he had permission and that he is allowed to peacefully continue, but I never hold my breath. Although praying outside in some form other than Mass might be more effective here as many people would see it as Catholics trying to take away their rights.

Bob, I had read the article. That is one reason I felt I had to post. I have seen how screwed up things get around CO when differing views are pointed out.
 
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TPJCatholic:
…but not think it is right to say Mass near a murderous battlefield called an abortion clinic?..
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There are tremendous differences:
  1. There are no churches convenient to troops who are in constant movement and/or redeployment in a war.
    Whereas the abortion clinic and protesters are not in constant movement. There is, at least, one church in the parish where the abortion clinic is.
  2. The mass in the field is not directed at the evils of war, but provides spiritual succcour for the troops who are far from home, family, comfort and church.
    The mass at the clinic is directed at the specific abortion clinic.
  3. Masses in the field are pre-approved by the church.
    Masses at clinics are not pre-approved and so must be sanctioned by the bishop.
  4. If the logic is having a mass at a murderous or sinful place then there is no end to where masses should be held:
    a) Outside prisons where executions take place.
    b) Outside casinos in Las Vegas and Atlantic City
    c) Outside all brotels
    d) Outside non-Catholic Christian churches to “open their eyes”
    e) Outside every mosque to protest to the Muslims about Islamic terrorism.
    f) Outside every Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, etc. temples because they do not know God or pray to false gods.
    h) Outside John Kerry’s home because he advocates abortion.
    i) Outside the homes of any judge, senator, politician who votes pro-abortion.

    There is no end to the list.
  5. Having a mass where there is possible exposure to abuse when other options are easily available just does not make sense.
  6. As I have said before, organise an outdoor mass if you must, at a stadium. Get 100,000 or even 10,000 Catholics or even the archdiocese, or diocese or parishioners to attend.
    It will be more sacred, more meaningful and more publicised.
    How effective is the mass outside an abortion clinic for a handful of Catholics compared to that?
  7. Entreat the church to have an annual anti-abortion day where the entire city, state, national or universal Catholic population will pray together against abortion.
    Do not take things into your own hands just to have publicity for publicity’s sake and breaking(?) church’s laws in the process.
 
Bob,

I was going to answer each of your points, for I think my comparison to war and the battlefield is a valid comparison; howevr, I thought again and felt that to go down that path with you is a waste of time.

You have high emotion regarding thise issue, and for that you are to be applauded. I do feel it would do you some good (and I say this with all respect) to take a step back from your emotions, and look at this with a bit more objectivity.

I am in full agreement that the Mass said near the abortion clinic should have been approved, and it if was not, then that is an abuse. I am also in full agreement that the celebrating Priest must follow all required rubrics for the situation of the Mass, and if he did not then he is guilty of abuses. I also agree that appropriate steps must be taken to protect our Lord in the Eucharist, and if the Priest did not do that, then that is also an abuse.

However, let’s assume that the Mass was approved, and let’s assume the Priest followed all required Church approved rubrics for celebrating the Mass and let us assume that the Priest used due dilligence regarding protecting our Lord in the Euchrist. How, if those conditions existed, can it be a bad thing to say Mass near an abortion clinic? How could bringing Jesus, His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to the vicinity of an abortion clinic be a bad thing? How can saying the most powerful prayer we have (The Holy Mass) be a bad thing just because it is said near an abortion clinic?

Abortion clinics ARE battlegrounds, and Jesus is needed in every battleground we humans invent, be it war, abortion, or whatever.

When Jesus walked the earth, He went to the people, he went to the sinners, he went to the tax collectors, the protittues, etc…Jesus did not lock Himself up in the Temple and order everyone to go to the Temple, He brough His Presence to the people and He brought the joy and peace of the good news to the people…He did not hide his light, He let it shine for all to see.

The Mass, especially Jesus in the Eucharist, brings Jesus to the people…so long as all proper rubrics and approvals are followed, how can that EVER be a bad thing?
 
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Franciscum:
Except where the Eucharist is likely to be profaned.
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Nonsense! The Almighty, the Omnipotent and OMNiPresent Majesty cannot be be subdued, not ever. His Own Son Was raised atop Iwo dJima’s summit, and the free People of the West of (my generation) knew this to be an act of courage, and fortitude in the face of the enmities of the Ancient Enemy.
 
Hello,
I have info. They are no longer holding Mass, but doing more of an Adoration, and still hoping for a variance.

The police were called because people were drinking a lot of wine in public. And people have been going down on the Saturday afternoons while this is being done and blasting loud music and trying to disrupt the Mass that was being said. Father Steve, at our Parish, said that he has done it in Father Bill’s absence before and it is the first time he has ever said Mass to Loud rock music (Come On Baby Light My Fire, was the song he mentioned).

So as to how bad all of the drunk Catholics are for drinking All that wine why do people have to be so rude and disrupting to us.😃

Kat
 
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TPJCatholic:
Bob,
…However, let’s assume that the Mass was approved, and let’s assume the Priest followed all required Church approved rubrics for celebrating the Mass and let us assume that the Priest used due dilligence regarding protecting our Lord in the Euchrist. How, if those conditions existed, can it be a bad thing to say Mass near an abortion clinic? How could bringing Jesus, His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to the vicinity of an abortion clinic be a bad thing? How can saying the most powerful prayer we have (The Holy Mass) be a bad thing just because it is said near an abortion clinic?
…
The Mass, especially Jesus in the Eucharist, brings Jesus to the people…so long as all proper rubrics and approvals are followed, how can that EVER be a bad thing?
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If you had read my post #25, you would have seen my answer below:

“Lastly, I will be very happy to keep my peace and withdraw my objections and all the ifs and buts if you can show me that the priest concerned had approval from his diocean bishop as per RS”. 🙂

Please go to post #25 for the full answer.
 
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KittyKat:
Hello,
I have info. They are no longer holding Mass, but doing more of an Adoration, and still hoping for a variance.

The police were called because people were drinking a lot of wine in public. And people have been going down on the Saturday afternoons while this is being done and blasting loud music and trying to disrupt the Mass that was being said. Father Steve, at our Parish, said that he has done it in Father Bill’s absence before and it is the first time he has ever said Mass to Loud rock music (Come On Baby Light My Fire, was the song he mentioned).

So as to how bad all of the drunk Catholics are for drinking All that wine why do people have to be so rude and disrupting to us.😃

Kat
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Thank you again KittyKat. It is so good to hear the news firsthand than to speculate on the conditions at the clinic.

Based on what you said, I wonder if those who disagreed with me still think that having a mass in the presence of drunks and rock music is still “a sacred and decent place.”.
I hear bombs and machinegun fire here…

What is more worrying is that how many of those winos will come up for a free sip of wine at communion time. A potential for a great abuse of the sacrament.
 
Bob,

I read all of your answers, which means I read post #25. I feel it is important to note that we are among friends on this board. Most people on these threads are faithful Catholics and do NOT want to see abuses commited. I also feel that most people here feel that there have been many Eucharistic miracles throughout history and there is no reason to think a miracle could not take place outside an abortion clinic. If saying Mass near an abortion clinic helped only ONE woman changed her mind to get an abortion, that is of eternal value.

Also, do not forget, while you are right to fear abuses, it is important to remember that there have been grave abuses commited in some of the most beautiful places and Churches on earth. Abusing the Lord or His Mass can happen anywhere; therefore, we need to pray that all Masses, no matter where they are said, have faithful Priests that love Jesus with all their heart, and follow all rubics while celebrating the Mass. If all Priests did that, then liturgical abuses would disappear.

It is not the location that causes abuses, it is the people.

Sins are commited by people, not by places.
 
Hello,

Bob, the Catholics were the winos that got everybody in question in trouble. Sorry I had other things on my mind and I was tired when I posted so what made sense to me last night confuses me today in response to that. Bet ya never knew that Catholics are just a bunch of winos.

The Catholics were the drunks in question. Hee Hee. Don’t we all love the way politics work.

The real drunks and winos won’t hang out in that part of town. They would rather be in the main downtown part where people walk.

Kat
 
The larger issue that I think we should focus on is the governments intrusion into the practice of our faith. The first amendment to the Constitutions states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”.

The government has no right to try to enforce an open container law on a Catholic priest with sacremental wine. Period. What if the Priest gave the Holy Blood of Christ to a minor. Would he be charged with giving alcoholic beverages to a minor? We must draw a line in the sand and not tolerate any intrusion into our GOD GIVEN RIGHT to worship according to our faith.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Bob,
… feel it is important to note that we are among friends on this board…
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There is no doubt about it here.
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TPJCatholic:
…It is not the location that causes abuses, it is the people.

Sins are commited by people, not by places.
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Canon Law 932:
Ҥ1 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in a sacred place, unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise; in which case the celebration must be in a fitting place.
§2 The eucharistic Sacrifice must be carried out at an altar that is dedicated or blessed. Outside a sacred place an appropriate table may be used, but always with an altar cloth and a corporal.”

Redemptionis Sacramentum reminds us of the abuse of the Canon Law. The mass must be either at sacred or decent place - that is determined by the bishop.

If it is not done within the Canon Law, it is disobedience and hence, a sin - by the priest.
 
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KittyKat:
Hello,

Bob, the Catholics were the winos that got everybody in question in trouble. Sorry I had other things on my mind and I was tired when I posted so what made sense to me last night confuses me today in response to that. Bet ya never knew that Catholics are just a bunch of winos.

The Catholics were the drunks in question. Hee Hee. Don’t we all love the way politics work.

The real drunks and winos won’t hang out in that part of town. They would rather be in the main downtown part where people walk.

Kat
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Thanks again Kat. I hope this settles the case about the great danger and abuse by Catholics of the mass in this situation.

Does anyone still think that the mass should be allowed continue under such circumstances?

By the way,:
  1. Is there any possibility of posting a picture of the “battle ground”?
  2. How near is the nearest Catholic Church?
 
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bob:
Try teaching RCIA with the entire library of church documents. Apparently you have absolutely no idea where and how to begin.

That is the whole problem with you.
You refuse to view evidience when offered but condemn them instead.

You attack a person when you cannot defend your views.

And you still cannot spell chasuble.

Chasable is when a blonde makes eyes at you and the chase begins…
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Bob: “And you still cannot spell chasuble.”

Do you mean chausable?
 
I went online looking for a way to show people where this is, but could not.

I see after having learned about this situation more. That no one was really doing anything wrong. It just could have been handled differently.

And Bob, if a sip of communion wine is an abuse then I hope you do not recieve. I added the HEE HEE as a way to show sarcasm as this was the way it was presented after Mass to us. The city was mad about people drinking in public and that is always seen as bad no matter the reason.

I believe that there is a Catholic Church a mile or so away, but the one that Father Bill is from is about 30 minutes away.

The location is 1330 West Colorado Ave
Colorado Springs, CO 80904

web is www.pprm.org

If you want you can see if you can find out your own info.
 
bob,

I do not think we know the full details for the Mass held near the abortion clinic. Yet, if the Priest received approval, and if he followed all the rubircs of the Mass, then it was a most worthy use of the most powerful prayer the Lord provides us.

You failed to answers my questions…re-iterating well known canons will not advance the subject. Please answer my questions.
 
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TPJCatholic:
bob,

I do not think we know the full details for the Mass held near the abortion clinic. Yet, if the Priest received approval, and if he followed all the rubircs of the Mass, then it was a most worthy use of the most powerful prayer the Lord provides us.

You failed to answers my questions…re-iterating well known canons will not advance the subject. Please answer my questions.
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I am not sure which questions you are referring to:
I can find only one post which you asked me:
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TPJCatholic:
However, let’s assume that the Mass was approved, and let’s assume the Priest followed all required Church approved rubrics for celebrating the Mass and let us assume that the Priest used due dilligence regarding protecting our Lord in the Euchrist. How, if those conditions existed, can it be a bad thing to say Mass near an abortion clinic? How could bringing Jesus, His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to the vicinity of an abortion clinic be a bad thing? How can saying the most powerful prayer we have (The Holy Mass) be a bad thing just because it is said near an abortion clinic?
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And my reply was:
“*Lastly, I will be very happy to keep my peace and withdraw my objections and all the ifs and buts if you can show me that the priest concerned had approval from his diocean bishop as per RS”. *
I did not “re-iterating well known canons…” in my reply to you.

However if you insist:
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TPJCatholic:
However, let’s assume that the Mass was approved, and let’s assume the Priest followed all required Church approved rubrics for celebrating the Mass and let us assume that the Priest used due dilligence regarding protecting our Lord in the Euchrist. How, if those conditions existed, can it be a bad thing to say Mass near an abortion clinic?
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Where does Catholic theology teach that the proximity of a mass is more effective than that said a thousand miles away?
If you have the faith of the centurion, you do not need Christ’s proximity to the abortion clinic.
As I have said a zillion times before, organise masses (read plural) for thousands, citywide, statewide, nationwide, worldwide, instead of one mass (or series of) for winos.
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TPJCatholic:
How could bringing Jesus, His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to the vicinity of an abortion clinic be a bad thing?
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I did not say it was bad, just the possible abuse was bad. Again, the centurion.
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TPJCatholic:
How can saying the most powerful prayer we have (The Holy Mass) be a bad thing just because it is said near an abortion clinic?
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Same answer as above.

I would like to repeat for the zillionth time on this thread, my only concern is the possible abuse of the mass under such circumstances.
 
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KittyKat:
I…And Bob, if a sip of communion wine is an abuse then I hope you do not recieve. …
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No objection to sipping wine, just the circumstances of the masses, wine given to “winos”, wine given to non-Catholics, wine given to Catholics in a state of mortal sin, spillage of wine in such circumstances, mass in a rock concert atmosphere, etc

My concerns are: that the Holy Mass is kept holy; no abuse of the Eucharist and liturgy.
 
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