priest threatening to deny 7-year old FHC-help!

[daeve]

It would be interesting to see what this guy would do if every member of the parish showed up that Sunday dressed in white from head to foot, men and women both.

Now that sounds like fun.

The most important thing here is that your daughter has a good First Communion. If you have to give in, give in. This should be one of the most important and special days in her life. Being turned away by the priest is unthinkable, but if that’s what he’s going to do…don’t let that happen.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I don’t hae time nor patience to do so. Please finish reading my post. Jesus was not only about love. He was about action as well.

Is it essential for you to post in over-sized text. It is a bit jarring as though we were being shouted at… 99% of the rest of the posters used the normal size text, could you do the same?

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Sure-seems simple to stand in line and get a communion. Unfortunately, there’s the whole documentation part which would not be addressed if I did 1-5.

We should perhaps then ask, what documentation is essential for FHC? Is it needed to have a certificate or a parish record of the date anywhere?

I am asking this - I don’t know. Of the homeschoolers I knew who simply took their children to a Mass at a date of their choosing when their boys were 6 & 7, I don’t recall that any special documentation was made, save perhaps some photographs…

If documentation is essential, this still doesn’t seem to make this insurmountable.

But really, I can’t imagine a situation where it is needed…

 

[tcraig]

Is it essential for you to post in over-sized text. It is a bit jarring as though we were being shouted at… 99% of the rest of the posters used the normal size text, could you do the same?

I believe OutinChgoburbs has vision problems, and the large type is for her benefit.

 

[JRKH]

May God help you see His way through this ordeal,

Unfortunately it is unlikely that something can be done before your dear one is scheduled to receive with her class (I presume in May).

Perhaps a pale blue cape could be worn with the white dress. I say this because Our Lady is generally portrayed with Blue over white and it would make her feel quite special to be garbed similarly to Our Lady.

It is a most difficult issue and I can understand your frustration.
Please keep after the Diocese regarding this priests abhorant behavior. (Use the squeeky wheel principle.) Encourage others to do the same, particularly where issues of the CCC and Canon Law are concerned. If the Bishop receives enough pressure he will have to send someone to find out what is going on.

But please don’t injure your DD over this. Bend to protect her, but don’t break under the yoke of this priests defiance.

May God Give you strength.
James

 

[childofmary1143]

Hello,
I need some guidence. The pastor at our church prohibits us from dressing our child in white for her First Holy Communion. We have been warned not to “test” this policy as it may lead to our daughter being rejected. In other words, denied FHC because of the color of her clothing.
The Diocese has instructed the pastor that the church does not support this and that not only does it violate the church policy, but it violates our civil rights. The pastor has essentially defied the bishop at this point and continues to ban white.
Is a Canon lawyer appropriate for this? And if so, how do I retain one?
Thank you!!!

Having read all the posts in this thread I must say that the Bishop is condoning this outrageous, disgusting, morally disgraceful attitude of the Priest by LETTING HIM REMAIN IN THE PARISH. I am curious to know what Diocese this is.

 

[kage_ar]

We should perhaps then ask, what documentation is essential for FHC? Is it needed to have a certificate or a parish record of the date anywhere?

I am asking this - I don’t know. Of the homeschoolers I knew who simply took their children to a Mass at a date of their choosing when their boys were 6 & 7, I don’t recall that any special documentation was made, save perhaps some photographs…

If documentation is essential, this still doesn’t seem to make this insurmountable.

But really, I can’t imagine a situation where it is needed…

The Parish records the dates of

Baptism
1st Communion
Confirmation
Marriage

in their official records. When you move Parishes and it is time for Confirmation, that Parish needs to know what Parish has the records of the sacraments recieved prior, same for Marriage, etc.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Hello,
I need some guidence. The pastor at our church prohibits us from dressing our child in white for her First Holy Communion. We have been warned not to “test” this policy as it may lead to our daughter being rejected. In other words, denied FHC because of the color of her clothing.
The Diocese has instructed the pastor that the church does not support this and that not only does it violate the church policy, but it violates our civil rights. The pastor has essentially defied the bishop at this point and continues to ban white.
Is a Canon lawyer appropriate for this? And if so, how do I retain one?
Thank you!!!

Do we have all the information here?

Exactly who told you your *civil rights *were being violated as you mention? Or did you add that yourself?

The store on the corner has a right to ‘no shirt, no service’. Are my civil rights being violated?

I think the OP may be in such a lather that she is mixing things up.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

The Parish records the dates of

Baptism
1st Communion
Confirmation
Marriage

in their official records. When you move Parishes and it is time for Confirmation, that Parish needs to know what Parish has the records of the sacraments recieved prior, same for Marriage, etc.

As puzzleannie stated, the only thing recorded is baptism, confirmation and marriage. First Communion should not be recorded, but some DREs and office managers insist it must. First reconciliation should never be recorded, and those little certificates they pass out should not exist.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Do we have all the information here?

Exactly who told you your *civil rights *were being violated as you mention? Or did you add that yourself?

The store on the corner has a right to ‘no shirt, no service’. Are my civil rights being violated?

I think the OP may be in such a lather that she is mixing things up.

The priest said he did not want any child in white, as theologically, white was a symbol of purity, and nobody needed to be pure to receive the Eucharist.

The bishop told the priest, according to the OP, that the parents could dress the children in any color they chose.

The priest told the parishioners the bishop didn’t have the right to tell him anything, more or less, and he, the priest, could insist they wear any color except white.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

OP (tha’t’s you, cotaface) you need to clean out your personal message box. It is so full that you are no longer receiving messages.

 

[iamrefreshed]

The priest said he did not want any child in white, as theologically, white was a symbol of purity, and nobody needed to be pure to receive the Eucharist.

The bishop told the priest, according to the OP, that the parents could dress the children in any color they chose.

The priest told the parishioners the bishop didn’t have the right to tell him anything, more or less, and he, the priest, could insist they wear any color except white.

I was refering to her statement that the Bishops office said it was a violation of her civil rights. I’m not an attorney, but I do not believe any civil rights are being violated here.

Bishops do not generally micro-manage. I seriously doubt any bishop would force a priest concerning an issue such as this.

I’d bet dollars to donuts we don’t have all the information. My guess is that the parent was told by the bishops office that there is no regulation concerning dress color.

 

[Phemie]

As puzzleannie stated, the only thing recorded is baptism, confirmation and marriage. First Communion should not be recorded, but some DREs and office managers insist it must. First reconciliation should never be recorded, and those little certificates they pass out should not exist.

True enough, I’ve never had a request for a certificate of First Communion (except from parents who want it for the child’s baby book or family Bible) and, unlike Confirmation, Marriage and Holy Orders, it’s not recorded in the baptismal record.

Of course for almost 98 years Confirmation has occurred after First Communion, so if there was a record of a Confirmation the odds were 98 to 1 that First Communion had also been received, the only exception those children who had been confirmed at the time of an emergency baptism.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

The Parish records the dates of

Baptism
1st Communion
Confirmation
Marriage

in their official records. When you move Parishes and it is time for Confirmation, that Parish needs to know what Parish has the records of the sacraments recieved prior, same for Marriage, etc.

I perhaps didn’t word this as smartly as I should have. That records are kept, is not in question… But does it take more than simple signed statement from the priest who administers a first communion to get it annotated in a parish record? I think and suspect that it would suffice for a signed letter to the effect of:

I (NAME) administered First Holy Communion to (NAME) at (PLACE) on (DATE).

Signed,
(NAME)

I am not certain, but from there barring a challenge to the veracity of such documentation, a parish would be compelled to then make a note of same in their records.

As has been noted however, I don’t believe there is any canonical requirement to keep that record at all.

Something similar happened - quite by accident - a few years ago at my Greek Catholic parish where the visiting extended family of a parishoner was with them. Father knew most of them to be Greek Catholics and, not knowing otherwise, gave a 6 year old who dutifully walked up to recieve (we start communion as infants!) Communion… After liturgy the mother politely approached Father with a smile “We just did first holy communion today apparently!” and a record of the event was made for her to take back to her canonical Roman parish of origin. How it was handled from there, I don not know.

Minor point:

Of course for almost 98 years Confirmation has occurred after First Communion, so if there was a record of a Confirmation the odds were 98 to 1 that First Communion had also been received, the only exception those children who had been confirmed at the time of an emergency baptism.

Among Spanish, Latin American & Fillipino communities it is or at least used to be widely the case that infants were confirmed at baptism. This has lead to some confusion as folks coming from those countries of origin have sometimes been cajoled into having their children repeat the sacrament of confirmation by DREs who were not familiar with this practice, and did not know the children had already been confirmed as infants when they were baptized!

 

[puzzleannie]

It would be interesting to see what this guy would do if every member of the parish showed up that Sunday dressed in white from head to foot, men and women both.

that’s the best suggestion I’ve heard yet

 

[puzzleannie]

We should perhaps then ask, what documentation is essential for FHC? Is it needed to have a certificate or a parish record of the date anywhere?

I…

as stated, no documentation or parish is required for 1st communion, although it is for baptism, confirmation, marriage and holy orders. most parishes keep a register and issue certificates but it is not required (since I know it will come up, first penance “certificates” are strongly discouraged).

and to clarify, I did not state “recording first communions” is prohibited, I merely said it is not mandated. Most parishes do it anyhow.

 

[Phemie]

as stated, no documentation or parish is required for 1st communion, although it is for baptism, confirmation, marriage and holy orders. most parishes keep a register and issue certificates but it is not required (since I know it will come up, first penance “certificates” are strongly discouraged).

It’s sad that for many parents the certificate is almost as important as the sacrament. I had one priest say “You have to give them something.” Er, didn’t you just administer a SACRAMENT??

 

[ASimpleSinner]

as stated, no documentation or parish is required for 1st communion, although it is for baptism, confirmation, marriage and holy orders. most parishes keep a register and issue certificates but it is not required (since I know it will come up, first penance “certificates” are strongly discouraged).

You are right and you caught that before I edited my comment!

I think that sadly, this is another situation where undue impediment has been put in place where there is no canonical requirements by well-meaning but over controlling bureaucrats.

Much in the same way that baptized non-Catholics coming to the Catholic Church are NOT to be subjected to RCIA or forced to wait till Easter, this is roundly ignored… (In fact baptized Christians are to be recieved on any Sunday after private instruction…)

I am pretty sure the first communion and first confession are, in canonical terms basically “when you make it” (so long as allowed by the child’s age). I am not certain that parents even can canonically be forced to enroll their children in formation programs for these, as it is their duty first and foremost to prepare their children. On this I could be wrong… but I am not certain. Anyone?

This has come up with some homeschoolers I know who were concerned about the “iffy formation” in their local parish… In the end they all gravitated towards a sympathetic priest who took them into his small parish (an inner city parish he voluntarily came out of retirement to serve the Latin Mass. That parish essentially was told “Here, have this, supply your own priest, if you make it work fine” They did…)

Again, if the OP will send me a private message, I am fairly certain I can put her in touch with a number of shrines and parishes where her daughter could go if the matter of wearing a white dress is TRULY of such tantamount importance that calling canon lawyers has been considered.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

It’s sad that for many parents the certificate is almost as important as the sacrament. I had one priest say “You have to give them something.” Er, didn’t you just administer a SACRAMENT??

I hadn’t been widely aware that this had become such a common practice.

Now that I know, I am feeling a little left out for never having gotten a certificate when I received the Annointing of the Sick!

 

[Brendan]

I was refering to her statement that the Bishops office said it was a violation of her civil rights. I’m not an attorney, but I do not believe any civil rights are being violated here.

I might be mistaken, but I think she might have misheard the Bishop’s office say that her CANONICAL Rights are being violated.

Which is true.