priest threatening to deny 7-year old FHC-help!

[cotaface]

Isn’t it interesting that to some people, a particular set of clothes is so incredibly important to wear in a First Holy Communion, that they would fight the priest on the matter.

But to suggest that a particular set of clothes (Sunday best) is important to wear at weekly Sunday Mass is an affront to many, many people. “God doesn’t care what I wear!” they say. “It’s what’s in my heart that’s important.”

Well, which is it???

Agree completely. So, why doesn’t the pastor simply tell us to dress nicely, instead of “no white”?

 

[cotaface]

That seems the logical thing. Go through things now with a sweater or trim or another dress. Take up the battle AFTER your daughter’s FHC for the children who will follow in this Parish.

I believe you may be right. I am meeting w/ him next Wed so that he can “educate me on the theology of communion” and why white is inappropriate. I’m hoping we can come to some type of compromise. Thanks!

 

[cotaface]

15 of the 15 posts you have posted since registering here have been about this topic. My honest question to you is did you come looking for reasonable advice as to what to do in this situation that would be best for your daughter (I think that has been offered), or did you come looking to be confirmed in your righteous outrage looking for tips on how to accomplish exactly what you are looking to do?

My original post was asking if this violated my rights-Canon or civil. Maybe you are not aware, but your post to me come across as insulting, ie “dramatic” and “rightous outrage”. I am not outraged, nor am I dramatic. I came here looking for understanding on my rights. I received some good advice and for that I am thankful.

 

[cameron_lansing]

. . . My original post was asking if this violated my rights-Canon or civil. . .

My attention was drawn to this thread through a private message. Consequently, I have just taken a brief look at it.

If you have not contacted Saint Joseph Foundation, as wisely advised early in the thread, by now, I recommend that you do so at your earliest convenience. There is also a group called “Canon Law Professionals” which can be located on the internet, and it will furnish a free, initial consultation. It may also be possible to obtain the name and contact information of a canonist in your diocese from your diocesan tribunal or the Canon Law Society of America, which has a web site.

The rights to the sacraments for those who are eligible, properly disposed and not impeded by law are rather foundational in canon law.

Your child possesses those rights, and they are canonical rather than civil in nature. Civil authority defers to the authority of religious entitities in matters like this. Your role as parent pertains to the proper assertion of her rights rather than to your “canon or civil rights” per se.

While I have some limited time to address the situation privately in the next several days (after cleaning up from our local snow storm), I think it is to your daughter’s advantage for you to obtain someone who will work with you more directly and immediately about her situation.

 

[jpjd]

If you agree completely, why don’t you use a non-white dress? Respectful attire is all that is needed. Anything more is window-dressing.

Let’s put things in perspective.

It’s a diminshing of the seriousness of “rights” to call wanting to wear a white dress for First Holy Communion a “right.”

There is a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Wanting to wear a white dress is a preference. It has no bearing on the sacrament itself. It is a symbol and nothing more, and not even an important one. I’ll wager that the boys in this First Communion class are just as pure as the girls, and I will bet that none will be wearing white suits.

What is wrong with deferring to the priest’s wishes on this matter? Is that option on the table?

This is a society in which people want what they want, regardless of the lack of magnitude of the situation. However, this is just not worth the fight.

What your daughter, and everyone else in the First Communion class and in the parish, will remember is the discord of this event, not the beauty of the sacrament; the beauty which is being in communion with Christ, partaking of His Body and Blood which gives us the grace to take His teachings of love your neighbor to the world.

 

[cotaface]

If you agree completely, why don’t you use a non-white dress? Respectful attire is all that is needed. Anything more is window-dressing.

Let’s put things in perspective.

It’s a diminshing of the seriousness of “rights” to call wanting to wear a white dress for First Holy Communion a “right.”

There is a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Wanting to wear a white dress is a preference. It has no bearing on the sacrament itself. It is a symbol and nothing more, and not even an important one. I’ll wager that the boys in this First Communion class are just as pure as the girls, and I will bet that none will be wearing white suits.

What is wrong with deferring to the priest’s wishes on this matter? Is that option on the table?

This is a society in which people want what they want, regardless of the lack of magnitude of the situation. However, this is just not worth the fight.

What your daughter, and everyone else in the First Communion class and in the parish, will remember is the discord of this event, not the beauty of the sacrament; the beauty which is being in communion with Christ, partaking of His Body and Blood which gives us the grace to take His teachings of love your neighbor to the world.

The Diocese of Providence has agreed that it is a parent’s right to choose what color their child wears and that white is totally appropriate for this sacrament of initiation. I’m sure you can’t understand the magnitude, or in your words, lack of magnitude since this is not your child. The dress is a simple dress, passed down from family member to family member. We had hoped to continue that. I’m not asking for much here. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[CradleCath]

Well then kage_ar, you will love this-
Another of the pastors “policies” is that First Reconciliation is done AFTER FHC. Yes, after. It’s in 5th grade b/c he believes second graders are not capable of grasping the concept of this sacrament. So, we have to home school our 7-year old and have her privately do First Reconciliation prior to First Communion.
This sounds awful, but it is like this pastor isn’t fully Catholic. He disagrees with so much that JPII and current Vatican has put forth.

This priest just needs to be stopped. Anyone who thinks that the First Communion dress, worn by a little girl, can make a statement re purity, has a problem. And this thing about reconciliation in the 5th grade?? Two YEARS after receiving FHC.?? That makes no sense at all. I have 8 grandchildren between ages 3 & 13…so you can see that we’ve been to a lot of First Communions in the last few years. All of them (& this encompasses 3 different diocese) had their first Confession right before their FHC. If your Bishop can’t stop him, the Vatican can. I would write them rather than talk to them by phone & send the letter to the Vatican with “attention: The Pontifical Council for the Laity” written on the envelope. I’d also send a copy to the Bishop.

It sounds easy, but I know it’s not. No one wants to be a “trouble maker” & it’s easier to just let it go. However, I believe that this is what it’s coming to. I believe that Pope Benedict wants to know what is happening with the laity & that’s why he basically did an “end run” around the Bishops with his Motu Proprio. He knew that if he didn’t let the laity know that they were entitled to the Latin Mass…we’d never hear about it. Your family should not have to endure this. Good luck to you.

PS. For others on this board…have you written the Vatican & THANKED Pope Benedict for his Motu Proprio?? I think he should hear from us.

 

[Jea9]

Your quote-
Lets lay off a little of the drama here. Not being able to wear your dear cousin’s dress will not automatically lead slippery slope to "No white at communion, No kneeling during the consecration,
No genuflecting after receiving first communion, No kneeling and praying at the beginning of mass(the place is as loud as ever!)" Taking a stand on your daughter wearing the dress of your choice for her First Holy Communion will not be the heroic act that prevents any of that from happening… Caving will not be the defeat that opens wide the gate. Let’s not wrap your clothing preferences in such drama.

Please don’t insult me. I’m not being dramatic. These ARE currently happening today at this church. I am pointing out the other ways in which this church does not stand on the tradition of Catholicism. Oh-forgot to mention they also have First Reconciliation after FHC.

I don’t have kids, but I have to say…if these things were happening in my parish, I’d drive hours if I had to in order to go to a reverent Mass. I can’t believe that “these people are nice” is enough to stay at a parish like this. And the only issue you brought up to the Bishop is that the priest wants to deny your daughter FHC because of what she may or may not be wearing?!? Does the Bishop know these other things are happening? I tend to agree with going to another Mass and letting your daughter receive communion there. In the end, it’s up to you, and we can all only say what we would do.

 

[bear06]

And it is wise to stand up to him in the context of one’s child’s First Holy Communion?

Absolutely! We’re taught to live the Faith. We shouldn’t avoid doing so out of convenience. This is Our Lord we are talking about. Being presented properly for Communion should always come first. These children are supposed to, by Vatican directive and canon law, receive their First Confession before their First Communion. Also, while not necessary, why would anyone not want to defend the wonderful symbolism of the white dress?

Do you have children? I don’t.

 

[lizaanne]

My attention was drawn to this thread through a private message. Consequently, I have just taken a brief look at it.

If you have not contacted Saint Joseph Foundation, as wisely advised early in the thread, by now, I recommend that you do so at your earliest convenience. There is also a group called “Canon Law Professionals” which can be located on the internet, and it will furnish a free, initial consultation. It may also be possible to obtain the name and contact information of a canonist in your diocese from your diocesan tribunal or the Canon Law Society of America, which has a web site.

The rights to the sacraments for those who are eligible, properly disposed and not impeded by law are rather foundational in canon law.

Your child possesses those rights, and they are canonical rather than civil in nature. Civil authority defers to the authority of religious entitities in matters like this. Your role as parent pertains to the proper assertion of her rights rather than to your “canon or civil rights” per se.

While I have some limited time to address the situation privately in the next several days (after cleaning up from our local snow storm), I think it is to your daughter’s advantage for you to obtain someone who will work with you more directly and immediately about her situation.

Excellent advice, as always. I hope your post is seen by the OP.

~Liza

 

[mangy_dog]

Hello,
I need some guidence. The pastor at our church prohibits us from dressing our child in white for her First Holy Communion. We have been warned not to “test” this policy as it may lead to our daughter being rejected. In other words, denied FHC because of the color of her clothing.
The Diocese has instructed the pastor that the church does not support this and that not only does it violate the church policy, but it violates our civil rights. The pastor has essentially defied the bishop at this point and continues to ban white.
Is a Canon lawyer appropriate for this? And if so, how do I retain one?
Thank you!!!

And just so its clear - we are talking about a simple, age appropriate white communion dress and not a small version of an inapprpriate adult dress right?
Or a rambuctious, miniature brides dress with a 20 foot train?

Just a simple white communion dress. Because if that’s the case then, yes you should probably contact the Bishop.

 

[CradleCath]

Some time today, do a search for my username. Post a link for every single instance you find of me typing, “What would Jesus do?” Then you should probably re-read your sig and attempt to apply your advice to your own actions.

After you’ve done that, I’ll post links to the relevant passages in the Bible where Jesus instructs us to turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, and pray for those who persecute us.

– Mark L. Chance.

I read your advice & if this were about myself, I’d take it. If it were about my daughter, I don’t think that I would. I’m an adult & able to know that most priests are wonderful human beings & once in a while, we find a rogue & a bully like this one.

A seven yr. old girl, however, may feel that this man IS the Catholic Church & that the Church itself is rejecting** her **. This feeling may never be vocalized…she may never even realize where her emotions come from, but it’s a danger.
Also, when my children were growing up & there was a choice between the easy wrong way & the hard right way, my husband & myself always took the right way explaining to the children what we were doing & why. All four of our children are grown now, with families of their own & our example has paid off one hundredfold.

This man has already spoken with his Bishop. He & his wife need to ask themselves if they believe that this ‘priest’ is right or wrong & act accordingly. I suggested writing the Vatican, hoping that the correction may come down through channels in the right (& quiet) way. It looks to me as if this is a battle that will be fought sooner or later & I realize that no one wants to be the one who does it. But it will have to be done.

 

[bear06]

If you agree completely, why don’t you use a non-white dress? Respectful attire is all that is needed. Anything more is window-dressing.

If you think wearing white is merely window-dressing then you’ve probably been taught by the same priest.

Let’s put things in perspective.

 

[bear06]

I really want to know what people would think if this priest decided to tell a bride and groom that the bride could not wear white.

 

[childofmary1143]

I really want to know what people would think if this priest decided to tell a bride and groom that the bride could not wear white.

Bingo!!!

 

[childofmary1143]

There is something that I feel compelled to speak about here. There is a principle involved and it is this. The Priest has no right, **absolutely **no right to ban FHC from a girl because she is wearing an appropriate attire.

Plus the fact that Confession is taught 2 years after FHC when Canon Law says otherwise speaks VOLUMES as well.

I remember when my nieces made their first communion and the big problem involved was that the kids were ORDERED to receive communion in the hand.

 

[dixieagle]

The Diocese of Providence has agreed that it is a parent’s right to choose what color their child wears and that white is totally appropriate for this sacrament of initiation. I’m sure you can’t understand the magnitude, or in your words, lack of magnitude since this is not your child. The dress is a simple dress, passed down from family member to family member. We had hoped to continue that. I’m not asking for much here. Thank you for your opinion.

I think the priest is, frankly, FAR off the reservation in a number of areas, not to mention slightly nuts. The “no reconciliation prior to FHC” and the “not needing to be pure” are particularly disturbing. I think a lot of folks have missed entirely your point that he has some very controversial views - and not just to do with white dresses!

I think your pursuing this is important, in that his ridiculous refusal to let your daughter wear a simple white heirloom dress is just the tip of the iceberg; there’s a lot more going on here, and sometimes you’ve just got to speak up. You go, girl!

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Hello,
I need some guidence. The pastor at our church prohibits us from dressing our child in white for her First Holy Communion. We have been warned not to “test” this policy as it may lead to our daughter being rejected. In other words, denied FHC because of the color of her clothing.
The Diocese has instructed the pastor that the church does not support this and that not only does it violate the church policy, but it violates our civil rights. The pastor has essentially defied the bishop at this point and continues to ban white.
Is a Canon lawyer appropriate for this? And if so, how do I retain one?
Thank you!!!

Zomg!!! Canon lawyer! civil rights!!! ahh!!!

Just contact the Bishop, and have the Church deal with it.

Are you planning on suing this pastor in civil court over something he has the right to do?

 

[CradleCath]

bear06

Some of us take our Sacraments seriously and the symbolism that goes with them just as serious. The same people that are saying you should just put them in a pastel dress would probably sue the church if someone told them their daughter couldn’t wear a white wedding dress.

And as far as your child figuring out there’s a “fuss”, I don’t think that’s such a bad example. Remember how young some of the saints were.

Your pastor is wrong. I’m just guessing he’s not a theologian so his “theological opinions” don’t really mean a whole lot. It sounds quite a bit as if he’s trying to downplay sin and the Real Presence. He want to be a maverick and someone better to stand up to him before the whole situation at that parish gets worse. Again, a priest cannot canonically deny the sacraments to someone who is properly disposed…

EXCELLENT POST. I agree wholeheartedly with all that you said. Jesus “made a fuss” when the fallen woman was being stoned, when the tax collectors gathered in the Temple…in fact, His very life “made a fuss”.

Again we have a priest who is going against the laws of God & the Church. How long will we just sit in our pews & allow this??

 

[mlchance]

Also, when my children were growing up & there was a choice between the easy wrong way & the hard right way…

The choices available aren’t between the easy wrong and the hard right. They’re between a self-centered right (i.e., I have a right to have my daughter wear a white dress) and a Christ-centered right (i.e., I have a right to suffer this indignity as a sacrifice for the greater good of my daughter receiving First Communion without running the risk of putting her in the center of a public confrontation).

The priest is wrong. No one is arguing otherwise. That’s not in question. What is in question is what should be the best Christian response to his error? I don’t see how risking one’s daughter’s First Communion experience is the best response.

So, humbly and obediently comply with the priest’s ridiculous demands. Then, after First Communion is received, respectfully take appropriate action to ensure the situation doesn’t repeat itself at next year’s First Communion.

This removes the daughter from the center of the potential conflict, and gives the families affected an entire year to work on affecting a solution.

Jesus “made a fuss” when the fallen woman was being stoned, when the tax collectors gathered in the Temple…in fact, His very life “made a fuss”.

And yet he died humbly while forgiving his murderers. Which example is the one to follow in this situation?

– Mark L. Chance.