Priests and cassocks

[Glennon_P]

I don’t know the standards, but since I have seen only one priest in priestly garb outside of church in the last few decades, I am guessing that the rules don’t require them to look like priests.

My experience is very different. I see priests in public wearing clerical shirt and collar all the time. Most of the time, they also have a suit coat on. I don’t see many cassocks outside of the parish setting but I do see them often in the parish.

In fact, it’s extremely rare for me to see a priest (and I am familiar with most of the 50 or so priests in my city) who is not in clerical attire in public. I do see one fairly regularly at the YMCA and he’s definitely not in clerical attire while working out…although he changes back into clerics when he leaves.

And yes, it is a strong witness.

 

[Adamek]

Maybe I just don’t get out as much as I should? Or, maybe the wrong places?

 

[Glennon_P]

Maybe I just don’t get out as much as I should? Or, maybe the wrong places?

Don’t know. Anything I would say would be a guess.

 

[JimG]

I am reminded of an incident when a newly ordained priest, a very young looking priest, was newly assigned to a nearby parish and also to teach a class at a local Catholic high school.

The new priest approached the high school wearing a cassock, but was stopped by a student monitor at the door.

“You can’t come in here dressed like that!” said the student. “Like what?” asked the priest.
“Well, you’re dressed like a priest!” said the student.
“I AM a priest!” was the reply. The student was a little embarrassed, but let him in.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some years back I was in an airport waiting for my plane. I saw a man there dressed in one of those long cassocks Jesuits used to wear with the sash down the side. I hadn’t seen one of those in years. I think they are called a “soutane”.

Anyway, I went up to him and asked if he was a Jesuit. “No”, he said, “Society of St. Pius the Tenth”

OOPS!

 

[Pitcairn17]

edward_george1:

dochawk:

At least in the US, RCC deacons are prohibited from wearing clerical attire outside of liturgical context,

It varies from Diocese to Diocese. In my own Diocese, deacons are regularly seen outside of the liturgy in clerical attire, particularly if their day jobs are at the church itself.

Yes, in my diocese, Deacons are allowed to wear a gray shirt with Roman collar

In our Massachusetts diocese, deacons are not only forbidden to wear the collar (with any color shirt) in any setting (except jail ministry), they’re also discouraged from wearing a dalmatic. To me that’s clericalism, the priesthood “circling the wagons” from even ordained “outsiders.”

 

[phil19034]

Where does the “black shirt” rule come from? I very often see priests wearing gray or pastel shirts with the Roman collar.

From what I understand, it’s the USCCB’s “rule.” Though, I think individual bishops have the right to choose not to follow it or may choose not to enforce it.

From what I understand, the American bishops wanted black shirt only because the cassocks are black and they did not want Catholic priests being confused for Anglican/Episcopalians when out and about town.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

edward_george1:

dochawk:

At least in the US, RCC deacons are prohibited from wearing clerical attire outside of liturgical context,

It varies from Diocese to Diocese. In my own Diocese, deacons are regularly seen outside of the liturgy in clerical attire, particularly if their day jobs are at the church itself.

Yes, in my diocese, Deacons are allowed to wear a gray shirt with Roman collar

In our Massachusetts diocese, deacons are not only forbidden to wear the collar (with any color shirt) in any setting (except jail ministry), they’re also discouraged from wearing a dalmatic. To me that’s clericalism, the priesthood “circling the wagons” from even ordained “outsiders.”

That’s really unfortunate. Esp discouraged from wearing the dalmatic.

The deacon is an ordained member of the clergy. Not allowing married deacons to wear the dalmatic is like telling married priests (converts from protestantism) that they are not allowed to wear the Chasuble during mass. Alb and stole only for the “second class,” married clergy.

It’s a really a shame that some diocese and/or parishes try to treat the deacon like a lay man instead of as a member of the clergy.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Some years back I was in an airport waiting for my plane. I saw a man there dressed in one of those long cassocks Jesuits used to wear with the sash down the side. I hadn’t seen one of those in years. I think they are called a “soutane”.

Anyway, I went up to him and asked if he was a Jesuit. “No”, he said, “Society of St. Pius the Tenth”

OOPS!

Gotta love it!

FWIW, the Polish word for cassock is “sutan”, derived from French, pronounced the same way. I was once telling my son’s grandfather (who does not speak English) “mam wlasny sutan” — “I have my own soutane” (from when I used to serve the TLM). “Inherited” it from an ex-seminarian who wanted me to have it. Dziadzio served the TLM in his youth, so that was one more thing we had in common.

 

[phil19034]

Some years back I was in an airport waiting for my plane. I saw a man there dressed in one of those long cassocks Jesuits used to wear with the sash down the side. I hadn’t seen one of those in years. I think they are called a “soutane”.

Anyway, I went up to him and asked if he was a Jesuit. “No”, he said, “Society of St. Pius the Tenth”

OOPS!

Just as FYI -

The “sash” is called a “fascia.” The FSSP priests wear them all the time (though they don’t have to), and it’s optional for diocesans when they wear the cassock.

“Soutane” is just another term for cassock (not sure which language).

In regards to the “Jesuit cassock” - there really isn’t such a thing. There were/are several styles of cassocks for Catholic priests & there are two that were very popular with Jesuits. So popular that they are nicknamed “Jesuit cassock” and “semi Jesuit Cassock” by the people/companies that made cassocks.

However, technically speaking, a Jesuit was just supposed to wear whatever diocesan priests would wear. And unless the local bishop doesn’t allow it, I think there is nothing that prevents a diocesan priest from wearing a “Jesuit Cassock” or “Semi-Jesuit Cassock.”

Here is a picture of a Jesuit priest in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia wearing a “Jesuit cassock”
“http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7mDsjJcMQB0/ShgXUkPA2OI/AAAAAAAAAmc/03O7CgCG-Y8/s1600/untitledhhh.bmp”

While here is a “semi-Jesuit cassock”

 

[phil19034]

Maybe I just don’t get out as much as I should? Or, maybe the wrong places?

I think it depends on the diocese or region of the diocese.

I’ve seen a priest near me who takes off clerical right after mass to go to dinner. He’s still wearing his black pants, but literally takes off his clerical shirt to go to dinner.

NOTE: I didn’t see him do this at the parish, I saw him at the restaurant after mass - he and I went to the same restaurant after the 5PM mass by coincidence.

 

[Adamek]

If there are any priests listening in on this discussion, maybe they could consider wearing something that would tell the public at large that they belong to the clergy estate. Even on Sundays only.

 

[Londoner]

It’s a powerful witness and tells the whole world, without ambiguity, that he is a Catholic priest (or possibly Orthodox).

It used to be common for Anglo-Catholic priests to wear a cassock with pellegrina, fascia, and biretta when out and about in the parish. It was quite normal in working-class areas where High Church Anglicans undertook a lot of missionary and social work. However, it is now very rare. There is an Anglo-Catholic priest in the London suburb of Kenton, Father Matthew Cashmore SSC, who is known for wearing his cassock all the time.

 

[dochawk]

f there are any priests listening in on this discussion, maybe they could consider wearing something that would tell the public at large that they belong to the clergy estate. Even on Sundays only.

If you had actually read the replies before making this statement . . .

 

[CilladeRoma]

In my diocese too. The dalmatics are making a comeback though, among some of the permanent deacons, especially those ordained in the last 8-10 years.

What bothers me is that seminarians are allowed/required/encouraged to wear clerics, but some ordained members of the clergy are forbidden from doing so.

Makes zero sense to me. :woman_shrugging:t4:

 

[CilladeRoma]

Then why let men who aren’t even Deacons yet wear clerical attire?

We had a group of seminarians who wore them everywhere. It was crazy. I get it if they were at seminary, but it was during the summer when they were home and working in parishes. The Deacon couldn’t wear clerical attire, but the first year seminarians could?

Sorry, but that is ridiculous.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It’s the attitude they have.
That “they”(the young, new,priests) are the only ones who take their vocations seriously, that they are responsible for “fixing” what all the priests before them have done, etc…

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

It certainly is a sad (and concerning) trend - and not just among those being ordained.

 

[CilladeRoma]

None of these things are bad in and,of themselves. It is the attitude that tends to come with the changes that bother so many. That “I am the priest and I know better than any of you.”

 

[Pitcairn17]

None of these things are bad in and,of themselves. It is the attitude that tends to come with the changes that bother so many. That “I am the priest and I know better than any of you.”

Seeing the same thing. Our newly-ordained priests seem to regard the older “Vatican II” generation of pastors as lax quasi-heretics from whom the church needs to be saved. The priests in the middle - 40’s and 50’s - are collapsing from overwork and resent being told by the new guys what they should be doing.