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thestickman
Guest
:clapping:
AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
Well stated!
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AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
Well stated!
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siamesecat
Guest
I totally agree that people should spend more time hating the Taliban and Sadaam for their atrocities than Bush for his mistake. I dont care for Bush, but I dont believe he’s evil. I cant make a judgement because I dont know the whole story, Im sure there are government documents not released, but I bet intelligence was telling him there were WMDs in Iraq etc. Lets remember the war was not to save the Iraqi people from Sadaam. It was to save us and Europe from WMDs, and none have been found. But whether or not the war was justified, you cant deny thats its turned into a mess. They hate us in Europe and in Iraq, thousands of Iraqis and soldiers are being killed. I just dont see us as being able to set up a stable Iraqi government. I can see another Sadaam taking over the minute we leave, if we can ever get out. I do hope, however, that the Iraqis do have a stable government and become a terror- free nation.
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Karin
Guest
what about hating the people behind these actions…???
*]When the Albigenses Christians in southern France wouldn’t conform to official dogma, Pope Innocent III sent troops to exterminate them. After the town of Beziers was captured, soldiers asked their papal adviser how to distinguish the faithful from the heretics among the townspeople. He commanded, “Kill them all. God will know his own.” It was done.
*]In the late 1800s and again during World War I, Muslim Turks and Christian Armenians killed each other by the hundreds of thousands
*]The Rwanda genocide was mainly between the Hutu majority and the Tutsi minority. The religious split in the country (75% Christian, 25% indigenous) appears to not have been a significant factor
*]South Africa: Hundreds of persons, suspected and accused of witches practising black magic, are murdered each year.
*]Tibet: Buddhists & Communists, Country was annexed by Chinese Communists in late 1950’s. Brutal suppression of Buddhism continues.
*]
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Stu
Guest
You’re right. President Bush is evil and as the democratically elected President of the United States his picture has no place in an American classroom.
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Jay74
Guest
I hate that evil as well. Failing to fight evils of the past isn’t a reason to fail to fight evils of the present. In fact, seeing what pacifism leads to should motivate us to fight evil more, but it doesn’t seem to work that way. I mean, just 11 short years ago, almost 1 million blacks were hacked to death in the streets in Rowanda–we should have stopped it, but the “they didn’t both us” argument being used against Bush now was bought into then.
A quote on the wall at the Holocaust Museam that I was at this month:
Do not be a perpetrator.Code:"Do not be a victim,
Above all, do not be a bystander."
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jman507
Guest
Well now not being a “citizen” but a “visitor” my understanding of what make a good citizen is as follows:
Honesty is the basic theme of good citizenship. A person must be honest with others, and with himself or herself, in order to be a good citizen. Has BUSH been totally honest with the citizens of this country???
Compassion is the emotion of caring for people and for other living things. Compassion gives a person an emotional bond with his or her world. Where is the compassion for others, BUSH???
**Respect. An important aspect of respect is *self-*respect, whereas compassion is directed toward others. Respect is also directed toward inanimate things or ideas as well as toward people. For example, people should have respect for laws. YUP!!! Finally, respect includes the idea of esteem or admiration, whereas compassion is a feeling people can have for others they don’t necessarily admire. **
Responsibility, which includes both private, personal responsibility and public responsibility. Individuals and groups have responsibilities. Responsibility is about action, and it includes much of what people think of as good citizenship. You may wish to point out that one of the main responsibilities of students is to learn. They must educate themselves so that they can live up to their full potential. YUP!!! Learning and educating yourself is the best thing a citizen can do!
Finally, Courage is important to good citizenship. Human beings are capable of moving beyond mere goodness toward greatness. Courage enables people to do the right thing even when it’s unpopular, difficult, or dangerous. Many people—including Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King Jr., Susan B. Anthony, and Mohandas Gandhi—have had the courage to change the rules to achieve justice YUP!!!
If you really want to be picky about applying these standards perfectly, you are right, no one should have their picture in the classroom, cause no one could ever comply with all the requirments, not even the list you’ve provided, save for what we believe about Jesus.
The problem with taking a postion of power is that you end up with dirty hands no matter what. The only people who have ever been most pure are those who’ve never had a postion.
I guess you can complain if you want, but you’ll have to hear the others complain as well.
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Jay74
Guest
Great point. I’ve noticed that. The only people truly “popular” have no conviction. A great example is that if anyone is pro-choice, then the religious elements in society accuse them of permitting murder of the unborn. If that same person said they were pro-life, an uprising among the feminist elements would be saying they want to take away women’s rights.
it’s unfair. But its politics.
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thestickman
Guest
LOL!!! What do these atrocites have to do with this discussion? Zip. Nada.
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thestickman
Guest
Hmmm…when should Catholics be hating anyone/anything? Anyone got a CCC refererence for that, please?
This word seems to be bandied about lately. IMO, it’s overused by the those on the left 'cuz they get all fired up when they hear it–regardless of whether it’s appropriate, accurate or valid.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
:yup:
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Karin
Guest
they have as much to do with this discussion as the atrocities mentioned in the post I was replying to…
Originally Posted by Jay74
I wish people hated Saddam for gassing Kurdish children, or the Taliban for treating women like animals, half as much as they hated President Bush for stopping them. If the world would direct that kind of hatred towards evil, we’d have a lot less evil and terrorism
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thestickman
Guest
Actually they don’t have anything to do with the Taliban or Saddam’s butcherous past. Pulling up horrors from the 1800’s, 1950’s and even the realtively more recent Rwanda slaughter has zip to do with the point Jay74 articulated. Apples and oranges.they have as much to do with this discussion as the atrocities mentioned in the post I was replying to…
Originally Posted by Jay74
I wish people hated Saddam for gassing Kurdish children, or the Taliban for treating women like animals, half as much as they hated President Bush for stopping them. If the world would direct that kind of hatred towards evil, we’d have a lot less evil and terrorism
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Karin
Guest
should we not dislike the actions just as much as what is currently going on? Just because it is in the past does it make the actions any less horrible? Or is it only current events that should concern us?? I do recall someone saying that if you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it…or something of the sort.
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thestickman
Guest
LOL!!! Too funny. Had you factually tied the past to this discussion via some similarity your remarks would have relevance. We could all take turns remembering horrors over the last five thousand years if we want–might be a fun exercise. However, regarding the point Jay74 made within the context of this thread has nuttin’ at all to do with those horrors from the 1800’s, 1950’s and the recent Rwanda slaughter.
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geezerbob
Guest
Just a reminder: The general topic of this thread was and should be whether the picture of Bush should have been singled out for removal from among pictures of several presidents.
The last poster who consistently hijacked threads for the purpose of Bush bashing ending up getting suspended. Just a word to the wise.
The last poster who consistently hijacked threads for the purpose of Bush bashing ending up getting suspended. Just a word to the wise.
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bengal_fan
Guest
wow, that’s a pretty nasty post there. do we really need to resort to name calling? and visual aids are necessary because many people learn better visually than they do by just listening. “why do we need visual aids?” is like asking: why do we need stained glass, a crucifix, icons, incense, etc. because different people are stimulated by different things.
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Karin
Guest
School Admins Say Controversial Teacher Walked Away, Wasn’t Fired
(New York-WABC, October 6, 2004) — Administrators at a South Brunswick middle school are refuting a teacher’s claim that she was fired after putting a picture of President Bush in her classroom.
They say language arts teacher Shiba Pillai-Diaz walked out of school after refusing to remove a picture of President Bush from a classroom bulletin board, and was never fired or even suspended. Administrators also say they had received complaints from students that Pillai-Diaz spent class time to discuss partisan politics, and reportedly told some students, "you should be ashamed to be Democrats."
abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/print_wabc_100604_teacher.html
Now what???
(New York-WABC, October 6, 2004) — Administrators at a South Brunswick middle school are refuting a teacher’s claim that she was fired after putting a picture of President Bush in her classroom.
They say language arts teacher Shiba Pillai-Diaz walked out of school after refusing to remove a picture of President Bush from a classroom bulletin board, and was never fired or even suspended. Administrators also say they had received complaints from students that Pillai-Diaz spent class time to discuss partisan politics, and reportedly told some students, "you should be ashamed to be Democrats."
abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/print_wabc_100604_teacher.html
Now what???
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legeorge
Guest
But you think it is OK to alter that history to your liking? Just like trying to pretend that George W. Bush isn’t the President? That will go down as historical fact. Why wouldn’t we want our children to learn historical facts? That is what is nonsensical here. I have no problem with my children learning history. Whether it is ancient history or history in the making. Learning the succession of the Presidents of our country is important history. So is learning about what happened to the Native Americans, Slavery, etc. I do not agree with the horrible things that happened in the history of the world. That does not mean I have the right to deny those things ever happened by scrubbing them from text books or time lines on the walls of classrooms.
That said, I am curious if someone who dislikes America so much would much rather be living in Austria with a picture of Hitler on their kids’ classroom wall?
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Karin
Guest
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legeorge
Guest
Karin, with all due respect, you may want to reread your posts. You have made it seem as if you having nothing good to say about America. You think you have no “fruits” from living here. You have thrashed both of the latest presidents, and you have scoffed at your American education. That doesn’t sound like you like America very much. Sorry if I was mean, but, although I sometimes am disappointed in the decisions of my government, I know that I have not lost my patriotism. Otherwise, why would I get so upset by someone denegrating life in our country?
I’m sorry, I thought you were defending the position of removing the picture. Removing a picture of President Bush from a display depicting the succession of American Presidents would be altering history.
Actually, erasing him from the timeline would be trying to change historical fact as I mentioned above. Further, there are good reasons why teachers put things on the walls of their classrooms. For one thing, there are many styles of learning. Some learn better by reading, some from pictures, still others from hearing or hands-on activities. The more styles utilized by the teacher, the better chance she has of everyone learning. Pictures, words and audio used altogether deliver the most impact. Also, the more you look at things, the more you remember them. I still remember what the alphabet looked like on the wall of my kindergarten room (that was quite a while ago!
) because I looked at it every day.Actually, I fully believe in immigration. That is how we all got here. I am grateful that my ancestors chose to come here. America may not be perfect, but I would rather live here than any other country I can think of. The difference is that I do not deny to belong to my country. You say that this is* not your president * and you claim that you are not an American. Yet, you feel that you have every right to trash our government. That is the difference between you, and Americans who disagree with the current President. Most of them love their country, and the reason they dislike Bush is because they feel he is bad for their country (true or not).
Fact is, a picture of the President of the United States of America is perfectly reasonable fare for an* American classroom wall*. And no teacher deserves to be fired for having it there.
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