Pro-life candidates are mean people?

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TheAmazingGrace said:
How would they accidentally unearth it without testing for it?
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While testing for something else. Oftentimes when doctors test for one thing, they’ll discover other things they would have otherwise missed.
TheAmazingGrace said:
Based on what research?
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On this research.

The graph on this page shows 16.3 abortions per 1000 women in the year 1973. By 1980 that number rose to 29.3 abortions per 1000 women. According to the article, recently the abortion rate has dropped again. Some anti-abortion groups attribute that drop to increasing restrictions.
 
BornInMarch said:
The graph on this page shows 16.3 abortions per 1000 women in the year 1973.
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In order to prove that Roe v. Wade increased the rate of abortions, you’d have to show how many women per 1000 were getting abortions prior to legalization.
 
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BornInMarch said:
I’m not a doctor
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So you really don’t know how to put your plan in action. Even if the doctor did come across something, how is he going to prove that its presence is the result of a deliberately induced abortion? Is he going to be obligated to report his patient based on suspicion alone?
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
In order to prove that Roe v. Wade increased the rate of abortions, you’d have to show how many women per 1000 were getting abortions prior to legalization.
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Obviously there isn’t a lot of reliable data on how many people broke the law and didn’t get caught.
TheAmazingGrace said:
So you really don’t know how to put your plan in action. Even if the doctor did come across something, how is he going to prove that its presence is the result of a deliberately induced abortion? Is he going to be obligated to report his patient based on suspicion alone?
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You’re getting bogged down in minor details. My point is that these things don’t always remain secret. Evidence gets discovered.
 
BornInMarch said:
You’re getting bogged down in minor details. My point is that these things don’t always remain secret. Evidence gets discovered.
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…and people are going to find ways to get around such evidence, babies are still going to die, and legislators are going to pat themselves on the back despite not actually accomplishing anything.
 
Salmonslayer said:
No he didn’t. He said he wants to stop granting it to future ones. Which should happen. No one should get citizenship who doesn’t have a parent (preferably the father) that is a citizen.

Though I wish he could strip citizenship from those born to illegals.
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My bad on the stripping of citizenship. But it remains that he is making statements that he knows, or worse is oblivious to, he can’t do just to throw out more red meat. And why does it matter what sex the citizen parent should be?
 
I’ve been around a long time and have seen every excuse under the sun not to speak up for tiny and helpless.
 
It seems like your argument is that if criminalizing abortion won’t prevent 100% of them we should leave it legal.

I’m not convinced. The laws against auto-theft haven’t eliminated that crime, but nobody’s arguing to make “safe and legal”.
 
BornInMarch said:
It seems like your argument is that if criminalizing abortion won’t prevent 100% of them we should leave it legal.
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100%? I’d consider 5% optimistic for the solutions you proposed. I frankly doubt they would work at all.
 
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The way laws and social norms work is that if something is legal, less people will see it as immoral and have reservations against it. The reverse is also true; make something illegal and fewer people will be okay with it.

Moreover, are you just ignoring what I said earlier about the potential of witness testimonies? So far even restrictions to legal abortions, putting them out of reach, is enough to reduce abortions in the states that enacted those measures; for most people, removing the legal channels is enough to deter them. If the only source for an abortion is a shady illegal doctor then fewer people will take that risk to themselves. If the punishment for getting caught is being convicted of 1st degree murder then fewer people will take that risk.

You seem to assume “people will just go underground and nothing will change”, willfully ignoring that criminal investigations, sting operations, plea bargains, and witnesses are a thing.
 
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BornInMarch said:
You seem to assume “people will just go underground and nothing will change”, willfully ignoring that criminal investigations, sting operations, plea bargains, and witnesses are a thing.
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They were a thing pre-Roe as well, and yet that didn’t stop Roe from happening.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
They were a thing pre-Roe as well, and yet that didn’t stop Roe from happening.
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As I mentioned earlier, most of those states only went after physicians. And in a few other states abortion was legal. And even in pre-Roe times abortion rates were much less than in the present.
 
BornInMarch said:
The way laws and social norms work is that if something is legal, less people will see it as immoral and have reservations against it. The reverse is also true; make something illegal and fewer people will be okay with it.
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Not necessarily. Just look at Prohibition
 
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