"Pro-Lifers are Hypocrites"

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prayerrider said:
“women’s reproductive rights”
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that are exercised so to not reproduce

kind of like free speech rights are exercised so to not speak

or voting rights are exercised so not to vote

the amount of self delusion you have to accept when you embrace this mindset is staggering
 
Aquinas11 said:
that are exercised so to not reproduce
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Which is awesome.

Until you’ve already reproduced.

And then, boom. You have someone else’s rights to take into account.

Conception is the first stage of reproduction. Reproduction doesn’t magically take place nine months later-- that’s just a change in time, a change in geography, for an individual who already exists.
 
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All true, and as Aquinas11 observed, “women"s reproductive rights” is code for “the right to kill” and nothing else.
 
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Fundamentally there’s no difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion. For any Catholic to openly proclaim either is obstinate denial of a Church teaching that must be accepted with Catholic and divine faith.
 
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You know what I’ve always found the most stupid about this arguement?

If pro-life people are hypocrites, then so are pro-choicers. If wanting to protect unborn babies obligates you to support a specific view of immigration, or prison reform, or healthcare, then holding those views obligates you to be pro-life.

The arguement is a logical contradiction. If “A and B” is a contradiction then so is “not A and not B”.
 
This is an excellent point. Turn it around on them.

Another one that really gets me is hearing a bunch of people who’ve never adopted foster children lecture me about how I need to adopt foster children. Yea. No hypocrisy there. :roll_eyes:

I suppose they could always fall back on, “I don’t HAVE to adopt anyone because I wanted them killed in utero.”

But who wants to own up to that position?
 
chessnerd321 said:
You know what I’ve always found the most stupid about this arguement?

If pro-life people are hypocrites, then so are pro-choicers. If wanting to protect unborn babies obligates you to support a specific view of immigration, or prison reform, or healthcare, then holding those views obligates you to be pro-life.

The arguement is a logical contradiction. If “A and B” is a contradiction then so is “not A and not B”.
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Yes. Points to the effects of sin on our ability to reason.
Sin dulls the intellect and allows chaos, oppression, and injustice to flourish. When people become unhinged from reason, the results are un-reasonable culture.

One of the root causes of this human tragedy is simply ignorance due to dulled intellect.
 
LateCatholic said:
How many unwanted babies have you brought into your home as foster children?
How many have you adopted?
How many unwanted, special needs or mixed race children have you brought into your home?
What have you ACTIVELY done to support the adoption and foster care process?
How many at-risk pregnant women/families have you directly worked with to support their journey both during pregnancy and afterwards?
How much money have you donated or given to DIRECT support of pregnant women at risk?
How many adopted/foster pre-teens do you DIRECTLY support as they go through the emerging psychological challenges of being given up by their biological parents?

I am pro-choice, and I will put my answers to the above against ANYONE.
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God says something about boasting like this.

Take heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.
Therefore when thou dost an alms-deed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
 
LateCatholic said:
Why don’t you lobby for a law that states every childless couple MUST adopt an unwanted baby from a pregnant woman? THEN make abortion illegal. Why not? In all seriousness, I could accept that rather than just making it illegal without any plan and support for the mothers.
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Really?

Why not? Maybe because they wouldn’t be good parents. Maybe because they don’t have children due to personal health reasons.

You can’t honestly believe that every couple should have children.

To say nothing of what seems to be a trend that most women, even very young women, don’t want to have their babies adopted. At least the ones that I have met don’t. They want to keep their children.
 
Not everyone can adopt or even foster and even fewer actually should. It is so wrong to assume anyone who has never done it is “not doing their part” or whatever. Fostering especially takes a very special type of family and I would never suggest someone who hadn’t done that is wrong for it.

I often tell people they should avoid the stereotypes out there about foster and adoptive children. All too often they are made out to all be hard to deal with and suffering from horrible behavior and mental health issues. No two foster children are alike, just like biological children. People tend to be individuals. God made us all unique.

No matter how much love someone has in their hearts and homes, without the ability to love enough to let go when the time comes, fostering leads to severe and life long trauma for everyone involved. It most certainly is something everyone should discern. It most certainly is not something everyone should attempt.
 
13pollitos said:
Not everyone can adopt or even foster and even fewer actually should. It is so wrong to assume anyone who has never done it is “not doing their part” or whatever. Fostering especially takes a very special type of family and I would never suggest someone who hadn’t done that is wrong for it.

I often tell people they should avoid the stereotypes out there about foster and adoptive children. All too often they are made out to all be hard to deal with and suffering from horrible behavior and mental health issues. No two foster children are alike, just like biological children. People tend to be individuals. God made us all unique.

No matter how much love someone has in their hearts and homes, without the ability to love enough to let go when the time comes, fostering leads to severe and life long trauma for everyone involved. It most certainly is something everyone should discern. It most certainly is not something everyone should attempt.
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Yup. Classic fallacy of the double standard. The pro choice side demands their opponent meet a certain bar or threshold of behavior that their opponent has to meet while no equal such demand is made of them.

Best to just dismiss such arguments as they’re completely worthless in this debate.
 
13pollitos said:
It is so wrong to assume anyone who has never done it is “not doing their part” or whatever.
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I agree. Everybody has a part to play, but it’s unfair to demonize people just because they aren’t playing all the parts at once.

We each have something different to contribute, and God isn’t calling everyone into foster care. (I’m still discerning practically and spiritually if my husband and I would be good candidates).

On the topic about everyone doing their part differently, I’ve told this story on CAF before. My mom volunteered for Birthright when the organization was just getting going. She met a pregnant woman whose husband threatened to leave her if she didn’t get an abortion.

So my mom and her friends pooled together and offered to take different shifts of childcare so this woman could go back to work. The woman had the baby, and, yes, her husband left her. But she was able to go to work and provide for her baby because pro-lifers with the heart of saints helped her to it.

To this day, there’s a photo of me, as a baby, standing in a playpen with the other woman’s baby. ❤️ I’d love to know where this “baby” is today. They didn’t adopt extra foster kids, but this was one awesome team of pro-life mamas!
 
We learned how to use condoms, and how the pill works. Honestly, I had no idea that artificial contraception was against Catholic teaching until I got really into my faith and learned all that stuff for myself. They never encouraged us to have sex or anything, but they certainly didn’t preach abstinence.
 
We did learn about the morality as well, mostly in religion though. The health and biology teachers were straight facts. We had a priest that taught religion so he covered most of the discussions about morals and faith.

I know not all Catholic schools are the same in this regard or any others. Just like public school districts
 
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Fair enough. In my school religious education mainly consisted of the teacher talking about his wife and kids and occasionally telling us to be good people :)😅. We did learn about St Maximilian Kolbe once… haha.
 
CatholicLeanne said:
Fair enough. In my school religious education mainly consisted of the teacher talking about his wife and kids and occasionally telling us to be good people :)😅. We did learn about St Maximilian Kolbe once… haha.
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My school wasn’t officially catholic but the religion teacher was. In the younger classes we read bible stories but never discussed dogmas much or what we were supposed to believe. Only very occasionally did the teacher try to explain the meaning behind some of the stories. In the older classes the teacher basically stopped teaching us in a formal way but mostly asked us what we thought about various topics so those lessons were more open and unmoderated discussions, often only vaguely connected to anything religious. For example, what we think about racism. Can theft ever be justified. Are thee limits to freedom of speech. That sort of thing. Then our homework would be to write a short essay on the topic. the teacher rarely interved in the actual discussion and never tried to push his own answers. He was more a moderator, just cutting people off if they spoke too long and making sure everybody got a turn to say their thing.
 
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Yeah I think that was meant to be the idea at my school, didn’t usually work out though. My primary school was very good, we had religion lessons most days and they were actually engaging and fun most of the time. And the school always had plays of various Bible stories, I remember one about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego that was particularly fun. We got to built this massive fake furnace and everything it was awesome.
My high school was basically a token Catholic school though. We had a few interesting RE lessons but mostly it was just vaguely discussing social justice issues and as I mentioned earlier, my teacher talking about his kids all the time. It was really quite sweet honestly, but probably not best for class time.
 
Nothing wrong with defending yourself. In fact, I daresay we should turn it around on them, pointing out that we do more for infants and their parents than the pro-aborts do. “By the measure you judge, you shall be judged.”
 
President Trump may have said that, but many Republicans disagree. There’s a reason the TEA Party started 10 years ago; many conservatives were sick of Republican lip-service to conservative causes, so they decided to start primary challenges against such spineless Republicans, replacing them with ones who would actually deliver results, regardless of the consequences.
 
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