Pro-Marriage, Pro-Family Voices Lodge Pre-Synod Appeals

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I understand your point, but the Church must be pastoral and provide a path to healing and restoration. Perhaps the solution lies in reformulating the annulment requirements like that of the Greek Orthodox church. Whatever the outcome, it will be in Jesus Christ’s hands.
 
Prediction: Pope Francis will permit the divorced and remarried to receive communion.
Prediction: There will be a change in the annulment process, but the Church’s teaching on marriage will rightfully remain intact.

Pope Francis has been a glass of cool water on a hot day to many a people. The love of the Lord is working through him. People are returning to the Church. If the divorced and remarried are permitted to partake communion, as the Pope has been suggesting in more ways that one, there will be an unprecedented number of Episcopalians returning to the Church, according to some surveys, that is.
“Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed” should apply to all.
I don’t understand how the two predictions can be reconciled. How can the Church reject Jesus’ teaching on the permanence of marriage without rejecting itself?
 
The bedrock of our Christian/Catholic faith is Matthew 16:19 in which Jesus states that he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom. The Church is built on Peter with Christ as the foundation, of course. We know from Sacred Scripture that this position of steward is referred to as being “over the house” and is an office that does not end. Now, Pope Francis is the vicar of Christ; he sits in the chair of Peter. We know that Jesus and the apostles were practicing Jews and that Jesus was using kingdom language. Any scholar of Judaism will tell you that the Rabbinical definition of possessing the keys of the kingdom means (according to Jewish Encyclopedia by Funk and Wagnalls): “The power
or right of deciding law in doubtful cases or of interpreting, modifying or amplifying, and
occasionally of abrogating (repeal or do away with) it as vested in the Rabbis as its teachers and expounders,” and there is too numerous to mention here. Let’s not undermine our Pope. Let’s support Pope Francis as he has been granted the authority from no one other than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
and given the clear, public and unequivocal statements by the Pope recently that no doctrine is going to be changed…
If no doctrine is to be changed or ignored then the situation of the divorced and remarried will be exactly the same after the synod as before and there is nothing to discuss. Since, however, discussions are still being held it can only be with the expectation that doctrines, or the meaningfulness of those doctrines, will be altered.

It is doctrine, not merely church discipline, that prohibits the reception of communion by those in irregular marriages, and there is no possibility of them receiving communion while those doctrines remain in force. The debate about what conditions would allow them to receive is at its heart a debate about the doctrines, and that debate is being held with the clear expectation that those doctrines may in fact change.

Ender
 
I think people need to learn to relax and pray for the Church.
 
But the very naïve will still ask, where is he dissenting???
If Pope Francis has not taken a position then there can be no dissent. Since the pope also requested (name removed by moderator)ut from the faithful how can it be dissent for Cardinal Burke to encourage Catholics to provide the very (name removed by moderator)ut the pope requested? It is not naive to find no dissent in Burke, and it is an act of calumny to assert it.

Ender
 
Prediction: Pope Francis will permit the divorced and remarried to receive communion.
Prediction: There will be a change in the annulment process, but the Church’s teaching on marriage will rightfully remain intact.

Pope Francis has been a glass of cool water on a hot day to many a people. The love of the Lord is working through him. People are returning to the Church. If the divorced and remarried are permitted to partake communion, as the Pope has been suggesting in more ways that one, there will be an unprecedented number of Episcopalians returning to the Church, according to some surveys, that is.
“Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed” should apply to all.
I think prediction two would be worse if it came true since like any tweak it will be abused to the fullest extent and will most likely lead to catholic divorce with the annulment semantic slapped on it.
 
I think prediction two would be worse if it came true since like any tweak it will be abused to the fullest extent and will most likely lead to catholic divorce with the annulment semantic slapped on it.
You have a point here, boar, you have a point.
 
The bedrock of our Christian/Catholic faith is Matthew 16:19 in which Jesus states that he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom. The Church is built on Peter with Christ as the foundation, of course. We know from Sacred Scripture that this position of steward is referred to as being “over the house” and is an office that does not end. Now, Pope Francis is the vicar of Christ; he sits in the chair of Peter. We know that Jesus and the apostles were practicing Jews and that Jesus was using kingdom language. Any scholar of Judaism will tell you that the Rabbinical definition of possessing the keys of the kingdom means (according to Jewish Encyclopedia by Funk and Wagnalls): “The power or right of deciding law in doubtful cases or of interpreting, modifying or amplifying, and occasionally of abrogating (repeal or do away with) it as vested in the Rabbis as its teachers and expounders,” and there is too numerous to mention here. Let’s not undermine our Pope. Let’s support Pope Francis as he has been granted the authority from no one other than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Yes, Christ by employing this expression clearly designed to signify his intention to confer on St. Peter the supreme authority over His Church. But not all power was given to Peter to exercise alone. The power to forgive sin, for example, is a broader power.

You also misinterpret Scripture when you say Peter was given power to change and repeal the “law”. He most certainly was not; only God can do that, but don’t hold your breath waiting for it to happen. Doctrine is the “law” made by God-- it will never be abrogated.

In grade school we also are taught that there is another kind of Church law; the Church-made law that Peter can change at will for our sake: Meat on Friday, eating before reception of Communion, annulment policy, etc.

So, it’s a red herring to say, “Let’s not undermine our Pope.”

newadvent.org/cathen/08631b.htm
 
Many thanks!
The theological arguments that are marshalled outgun the cardinal completely, and in so doing, some important points are made. Marriage and procreation are the single most important activities for most people, despite the world’s attempt to reduce sex to pleasure alone; and adequate preparation for marriage needs to start from birth.
The persuasive nature of the argument, and the authorities cited, make it clear that the traditional teaching ought not to be abandoned. If one remains in any doubt, the blunt foreword by Cardinal Pell makes it clear that change is not simply undesirable: it is impossible.
One by one, the hierarchy are taking sides - no neutrality is possible, and clarity is being given to support Tradition and the faith as we have always known it.
 
Sadly, we are now in a situation where cardinal faces off against cardinal, and bishop against bishop. How on earth did it come to this?
Quote from Abyssinia’s link. Just what our Lady warned us in church-approved apparitions.
 
“And this is without even mentioning the obsession to make easier the procedures to annul the marital bond.” - Card. Burke.

I see that Cardinal Burke is also against making the annulment process easier.
is ‘ease’ the goal of the annulment process? Or should the Church desire throughness, that the most humanly accurate verdict be drawn?

If ‘easy’ is the goal, that can be accomplished with little difficulty. A simple website where you provide your name and address, and have an annulment certificate FedEx’ed to your home the next day.

Easy.

But is that what the Church itself is calling for? Should it not investigate the Truth of the Sacrament? Truth is always pastoral, for a good shepherd will never lead the flock towards a falsehood.

And anyone who is interested in a pastoral solution should be the biggest advocate of seeking the Truth to the greatest extent humanly possible.
 
Oh, no, no, no, KSU. I will leave my post #39 that you have quoted as is. It speaks for itself with no misinterpretation. Jesus clearly gave Peter the keys to the kingdom; and the Jewish rabbinical interpretation of such an act is what it is and is the bedrock of our belief as the Catholic Church being the Church that Christ gave us. From what I understand the Pope is not alone in what he has proposed.

Now, if I am to take your interpretation of Sacred Scripture, then we are all in grave error of receiving communion, because it is also written and never abrogated by God, “Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy.” Yet, we convene on the Lord’s Day, Sunday. It is also written “You shall not make for yourself any graven image … you shall not bow down to them or serve them.” Yet, our Church is adorned with them and some believers bow down to them and offer prayers to them. I would also note that these are mentioned before the prohibition of adultery. You need not get into the Church’s explanation of these changes. I am fully aware of them.

James 2:8-13 “If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy TRIUMPHS over judgment.”

I’m not supporting Bob and Jane who have decided that they will leave their spouses at a whim, seek a civil divorce, and demand to be remarried and demand the Eucharist, and I don’t think that’s what the Pope is implying; but not every situation is the same. A woman who is abandoned by a spouse who did not want children and maybe does not have enough witnesses or witnesses have died needs a pathway to reconciliation with the Church. Some people who went through a painful situation hold things in and don’t share or are embarrassed to share or are emotionally and mentally damaged and are in need of a more pastoral (not easier) annulment process.

If anyone can provide me with the actual scripture verse where Jesus said that the divorced and remarried are forbidden to do that which He said to do in remembrance of Him or what the early church taught regarding this most important matter, please send it to me.
 
Brendan,

I hardly think the Pope is implying what you define as easy. Those are your words. You must not have been listening to many of his homilies. If someone wants to come back to the Church and receive communion, but has been divorced for 40 years and has no witnesses, because they’ve died, but has legitimate grounds for an annulment, should they be turned away forever, because they have no witnesses?
 
Brendan,

I hardly think the Pope is implying what you define as easy. Those are your words. You must not have been listening to many of his homilies. If someone wants to come back to the Church and receive communion, but has been divorced for 40 years and has no witnesses, because they’ve died, but has legitimate grounds for an annulment, should they be turned away forever, because they have no witnesses?
What legitimate grounds are you referring to?
 
The Catholic Church does have a tribunal and does grant annulments.

Some legitimate grounds are:

Insufficient use of reason, Canon 1095, 10

Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties, Canon 1095, 20

Psychic-natural incapacity to assume marital obligation, Canon 1095, 30

Error of person, Canon 1097, Sec 1

Error about a quality of a person, Canon 1097, Sec 2

Fraud, Canon 1098

Total willful exclusion of marriage, Canon 1101, Sec 2

Willful exclusion of children 1101, Sec 2

Willful exclusion of marital fidelity, Canon 1101, 12

And there is much more. I’m sorry I did not give all the definitions of the legitimate reasons the Catholic Church uses to annul a marriage. I think before people jump onto band wagons, they should thoroughly search all of the Church’s teaching.
 
Brendan,

I hardly think the Pope is implying what you define as easy. Those are your words.
Actually, it was LongingSoul that mentioned easyness ( or specifically +Burkes ‘objection’ to annulments being made easier)

Go back and look at the where I quoted LongingSoul
someone wants to come back to the Church and receive communion, but has been divorced for 40 years and has no witnesses, because they’ve died, but has legitimate grounds for an annulment, should they be turned away forever, because they have no witnesses?
The Church has an obligation to arrive at the Truth. It must have access to the resources needed to arrive at the Truth. The alternative (and this applies to ALL the Sacraments) is the presumption of validiity. Without the witnesses, how can it be proved that the marriage in invalid. Or should Marriages be presumed to be invalid unless proven otherwise.

Which solution do you prefer?
 
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