Pro-Marriage, Pro-Family Voices Lodge Pre-Synod Appeals

[GiveTheTruth]

Thanks for your most humble response. It was helpful. Really after rethinking about the whole thing, the Pope maybe should just leave it alone. Why all the fuss?

 

[Suudy]

CCC does not apper to be Gospel exactly, it is merely an interpertation of it, correct? Help me to understand this.

The Church uses more than just scripture for its teaching authority. There is Tradition as well. The Catholic Church is not a sola scriptura church.

 

[Suudy]

Thanks for your most humble response. It was helpful. Really after rethinking about the whole thing, the Pope maybe should just leave it alone. Why all the fuss?

I think Papa Francis was trying to clear up the same misconception it appeared that you had. Those with same-sex attraction (SSA) are welcome in the Church, and the Church should make itself more welcoming to those with SSA. The problem (or fuss) is that there is some ambiguity in the terms used in conversation.

Welcoming gays/homosexuals/etc to the Church should happen. Welcoming those properly disposed to communion should happen. The confusion is that often when people hear that the Church should “welcome gays,” they think those engaged in active homosexual activity. Or those who have SSA hear “the Church doesn’t let gays up for communion” think the prohibition specifically refers to their SSA, not to those actively engaged in homosexual activity. I think Papa Francis was trying to clear this up.

 

[KSU]

Take the example of two gay gentlemen attending Mass in Michigan, I believe. They entered in a civil union and began showing up to church as a blatant gay couple. The priest had to remove them from the choir and refused to administer the Eucharist to them.
What are we to do if this happens? Congratulate the priest and offer him your support.

By the way, what are the Church’s rules regarding gays receiving communion and who do they view it? **Depends on which bishop you ask. Remember, your talking about the AMERICAN Church. **

 

[GiveTheTruth]

I understand. I’m not a sola scriptura kind of guy either, but everyone has been quoting Jesus’ as well from the Gospels as well.

 

[GiveTheTruth]

Why not adopt the old military stance? Don’t ask, don’t tell. If I’m sitting in church with my children, I don’t want Adam and Steve all lovey dovey sitting next to us. They are going to have to comport themselves as ones seeking repentance and reconciliation with God. Whoever thought homosexuality would have gotten so far in this country with gay men wanting to use women bathrooms and vice versa? The reality is that I bet this weekend there are a number of homosexuals that will be receiving communion without anyone knowing anything. In the end it’s between God and them; right?

 

[Suudy]

Why not adopt the old military stance? Don’t ask, don’t tell. If I’m sitting in church with my children, I don’t want Adam and Steve all lovey dovey sitting next to us.

If I’m sitting in church with my children, I don’t want Mark and Mary all lovey dovey sitting next to us. There is a place for public displays of affection, and church isn’t one of them.

But I do understand your point. The problem with “don’t ask, don’t tell” is that everyone else already knows. That is scandal. And the goal is to avoid scandal.

They are going to have to comport themselves as ones seeking repentance and reconciliation with God.

I think part of the problem is that there are folk who reject Church teaching on homosexuality and think the Church has to comport herself with those individuals. And there are other sincerely confused on the issue, and don’t understand why the Church would deny active homosexuals access to communion. And there are those, even though they know someone with SSA, think they shouldn’t receive communion. There is a lot of confusion, and that makes it difficult for those sincere, celibate SSA folk to feel welcome in the Church.

The reality is that I bet this weekend there are a number of homosexuals that will be receiving communion without anyone knowing anything. In the end it’s between God and them; right?

And I bet this weekend there will be any number of adulterers, cheaters, thieves, and more that will be receiving communion without anyone knowing anything. There’s nothing unique about those actively engaged in homosexual activity with relation to the reception of communion. An admitted gigolo/harlot/etc is just as scandalous as a open, committed gay couple receiving communion.

 

[boar2roar]

I think part of the problem is that there are folk who reject Church teaching on homosexuality and think the Church has to comport herself with those individuals. And there are other sincerely confused on the issue, and don’t understand why the Church would deny active homosexuals access to communion. And there are those, even though they know someone with SSA, think they shouldn’t receive communion. There is a lot of confusion, and that makes it difficult for those sincere, celibate SSA folk to feel welcome in the Church.

If you go obviously enough to be recognized as a “couple” then you aren’t celibate and you should be denied communion for not only your actions but also for denigrating a core catholic tenant by presenting yourself like that in church and especially since there are most likely children around who shouldn’t be exposed to those things…

 

[gracepoole]

Whoever thought homosexuality would have gotten so far in this country with gay men wanting to use women bathrooms and vice versa?

Homosexuality and transsexualism are not the same thing and not all transsexuals are homosexual.

 

[Ender]

CCC does not apper to be Gospel exactly, it is merely an interpertation of it, correct? Help me to understand this.

The catechism contains a summary of what the church teaches. What she teaches is based on more than just scripture.
…the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. … sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God’s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others. (Dei Verbum #10)
Ender

 

[Phil502]

The catechism contains a summary of what the church teaches. What she teaches is based on more than just scripture.
…the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. … sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God’s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others. (Dei Verbum #10)
Ender

Got it, thanks. That would mean that changing the Annulment process would be okay, since it is done by living teaching office of the Church.

 

[Ender]

Got it, thanks. That would mean that changing the Annulment process would be okay, since it is done by living teaching office of the Church.

The annulment process can be changed because it is a discipline developed by the church which can therefore be changed by the church. The concern in all of this is not so much with the annulment process but with the suggestion that communion may be given to those living in irregular marriages. That involves several doctrines which the Magisterium is not given the power to repudiate.

Ender

 

[PTL]

Bump!

filialappeal.org/

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Can anyone answer a question? I know I may have ruffled some feathers on this post with my support for the ones that are having annulment issues. I heard that the Pope is also considering allowing homosexuals to communion which I am totally against. If this is true can someone let me know, please.

Gay people who are in a state of grace are allowed just as much as a heterosexual person in a state of grace to receive communion.

Because the Word of God says homosexuality is an abomination.

It says gay sex is a sin which is different.

Take the example of two gay gentlemen attending Mass in Michigan, I believe. They entered in a civil union and began showing up to church as a blatant gay couple. The priest had to remove them from the choir and refused to administer the Eucharist to them.
What are we to do if this happens? By the way, what are the Church’s rules regarding gays receiving communion and who do they view it?

Describe “blatant gay couple”, to some people that could mean behavior that is considered perfectly acceptable by an unmarried heterosexual couple.

This in reference to a question posed by Give The Truth earlier:
If anyone can provide me with the actual scripture verse where Jesus said that the divorced and remarried are forbidden to do that which He said to do in remembrance of Him or what the early church taught regarding this most important matter, please send it to me.

CCC does not apper to be Gospel exactly, it is merely an interpertation of it, correct? Help me to understand this.

The Bible also doesn’t explicitly say that those who engage in gay orgies on a daily basis shouldn’t receive communion, but in both cases 1 Corinthians 11 mentions that one should not receive communion unworthily (in a state of mortal sin)
See Mark 10, Luke 16, Matthew 19 for the Bible on Divorce.

Why not adopt the old military stance? Don’t ask, don’t tell. If I’m sitting in church with my children, I don’t want Adam and Steve all lovey dovey sitting next to us. They are going to have to comport themselves as ones seeking repentance and reconciliation with God.

What, is two men holding hands horrifying? Was there a peck on the cheek at the sign of peace?

Are those two men going to burn in hell for their immorality of kissing another man on the lips no less?

Whoever thought homosexuality would have gotten so far in this country with gay men wanting to use women bathrooms and vice versa? The reality is that I bet this weekend there are a number of homosexuals that will be receiving communion without anyone knowing anything. In the end it’s between God and them; right?

1. Transgender people are not the same as gay people
2. Most transwomen are not gay.

I think part of the problem is that there are folk who reject Church teaching on homosexuality and think the Church has to comport herself with those individuals. And there are other sincerely confused on the issue, and don’t understand why the Church would deny active homosexuals access to communion. And there are those, even though they know someone with SSA, think they shouldn’t receive communion. There is a lot of confusion, and that makes it difficult for those sincere, celibate SSA folk to feel welcome in the Church.

If you go obviously enough to be recognized as a “couple” then you aren’t celibate and you should be denied communion for not only your actions but also for denigrating a core catholic tenant by presenting yourself like that in church and especially since there are most likely children around who shouldn’t be exposed to those things…

There are a lot of busybodies in the Church who would assume that two men who always show up to Mass together, hold hands during the Our Father and hug at the sign of peace are a gay couple yet they haven’t necessarily done anything wrong

 

[KSU]

There are a lot of busybodies in the Church who would assume that two men who always show up to Mass together, hold hands during the Our Father and hug at the sign of peace are a gay couple…

If after a few months a thought like that popped into my busybody head, would that be a sin, or just a “natural thing” like same sex attraction?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

If after a few months a thought like that popped into my busybody head, would that be a sin, or just a “natural thing” like same sex attraction?

It is a temptation that must be manfully resisted like a temptation to engage in gay sex lest one falls into sin/

 

[KSU]

It is a temptation that must be manfully resisted like a temptation to engage in gay sex lest one falls into sin/

But is it a temptation that occurs because one is a busybody* or is it a temptation to which even non-busybodies are subject?

• “There are a lot of busybodies in the Church who would assume that two men who always show up to Mass together, hold hands during the Our Father and hug at the sign of peace are a gay couple…” Joie de Vivre

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

But is it a temptation that occurs because one is a busybody* or is it a temptation to which even non-busybodies are subject?

• “There are a lot of busybodies in the Church who would assume that two men who always show up to Mass together, hold hands during the Our Father and hug at the sign of peace are a gay couple…” Joie de Vivre

It is something that even non-busybodies are subject to just like in the Middle Ages a temptation to engage in gay sex was seen as something anyone could fall prey to as heterosexuals hadn’t been invented yet.

 

[KSU]

It is something that even non-busybodies are subject to **Thank you. I was beginning to worry.**just like in the Middle Ages a temptation to engage in gay sex was seen as something anyone could fall prey to as heterosexuals hadn’t been invented yet.

It’s a good thing, then, that heterosexuals were invented. Otherwise, we would be Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

It’s a good thing, then, that heterosexuals were invented. Otherwise, we would be Sodom and Gomorrah.

Somehow humanity managed to survive into the 19th century before heterosexuality was invented, note homosexuality was invented shortly after.