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Freddy
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I don’t have a problem with the way things work. I’m just looking to see what others think.Freddy:
Unless you have a better explanation.
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nicholasG
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It’s not that God allows evil, God allows free choice. Mankind creates or contributes to evil then complains about how much evil is in the world. With free will there are consequences. God wants mankind to determine its own fate. God wants to assist but mankind has to want God’s assistance. I believe in free will. If it’s only a illusion then we all have the same illusion so in the end it doesn’t really matter, does it?
Edit: By the way, I am not limiting God’s attributes at all.
Edit: By the way, I am not limiting God’s attributes at all.
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nicholasG
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Good for you. I find that’s the best way to learn.
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nicholasG
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If you read my post you see that I said God wants to assist. Of course he can intervene.
As for your other comments you’ll have to be more specific. You have to understand that some things in the Bible are stories meant to illustrate certain truths. That’s how it was done in biblical times.
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Noose001
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That would entail ‘knowing that it will never be written’ which means it is nothing, so?!!
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o_mlly
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For rational people, it is. The poster writes that his personal opinion is irrelevant and then writes his personal view is the solution to his problem. "Beam me up, Scotty … .
And your posts are pure starwmen. “… no intelligent life down here.”
If your objective is to demonstrate incoherence in Catholic theology then you must argue, well, from Catholic theology.
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o_mlly
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Fred, enough with the animal lover routine! You’ve got the Buddhists queuing up to come back in their next life as Fred’s pet dog.
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EugeneCharles
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Good day Neithan!
God gave us challenges because we are not all knowing. This challenges made us realize that we are not perfect and we can not prevail over God’s plan despite this weaknesses this challenges also made us that we are stronger and courageous. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the younger son became independent he taught he could do any things he wants to do but he was wrong. Maybe the Father knows the consequences of his rebellion but he never became angry with him. Then the famine came and the son returned to the Father. The challenges made the son realize that the person who would love him first and most is the Father.It gave us me the idea that God did not make challenges or the evil things. Like in the Book of Job, as far as we know Job was a good man, God doesn’t made the evil but rather let Satan tempt Job and this challenges gave Job a more beautiful life. This challenges we’re not meant only for God to know how faithful are we because as you said God knows everything but for us to be humble and to know our capacity as human beings and so we can asked God for help. Like a Father, God would scold His children because He loves them and doesn’t want them to lost in their way of life. He doesn’t want us to walk on a wrong road.
God gave us challenges because we are not all knowing. This challenges made us realize that we are not perfect and we can not prevail over God’s plan despite this weaknesses this challenges also made us that we are stronger and courageous. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the younger son became independent he taught he could do any things he wants to do but he was wrong. Maybe the Father knows the consequences of his rebellion but he never became angry with him. Then the famine came and the son returned to the Father. The challenges made the son realize that the person who would love him first and most is the Father.It gave us me the idea that God did not make challenges or the evil things. Like in the Book of Job, as far as we know Job was a good man, God doesn’t made the evil but rather let Satan tempt Job and this challenges gave Job a more beautiful life. This challenges we’re not meant only for God to know how faithful are we because as you said God knows everything but for us to be humble and to know our capacity as human beings and so we can asked God for help. Like a Father, God would scold His children because He loves them and doesn’t want them to lost in their way of life. He doesn’t want us to walk on a wrong road.
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goout
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God’s nature is love.nicholasG:
So it’s in his nature to create a system that involves suffering (we’re still talking animals here). His nature precludes Him from creating it any other way.Freddy:
Yes in a sense. God cannot go against His nature otherwise He wouldn’t be God.
Love only exists in freedom. (you should know this by sane observation)
Freedom allows the radical possibility of rejection, as well as the joy of love. You can’t pick and choose the consequences of freedom. That’s whining.
Love does not count the cost of freedom. Love does not condition love to the possibility of suffering and injury. That wouldn’t be love, that would be calculation, or maybe utilitarianism. Love pours itself out in fertile creation because it is good to exist. To say “I Am” is the highest good, even though despairing folks wouldn’t agree.
(yes I know, animals eat each other, right? go figure…nature must be in a state of journeying to something…transcendent? Your question isn’t really about the material processes of nature, is it…your question is calling God into question period. So reducing the questions to “animals tearing each other apart” is a silly diversion)
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nicholasG
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You seem to misunderstand the definition of God. If, as you assert "I can counter it with: God’s nature is meanness, hate, and lies” that would not be God. It may be some other being but not God. The only reason we call Him God is precisely the reason of His love and truth.If your uncomfortable with the supreme being that possesses the true nature of love and truth called God, You can pick any name you like.
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nicholasG
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You attributed a statement to me and all I said was that I didn’t make that statement.nicholasG:
Then you do not talk about the Christian concept of morality.
Don’t put words in my mouth.
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Freddy
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No, my question isn’t about anything other than an interest to see how people answer the problem.
Your answer is that nature is maybe ‘journeying into something transcendent’. I think I’ll put that down as a ‘don’t know’.
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Noose001
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If it isn’t conceptualized in the mind and it is not written down then it is nothing and we can’t talk about having knowledge about it. Knowledge is about something, not nothing.
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o_mlly
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Nope. Right reason and faith are in always in accord.
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goout
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Well, you don’t have any good answers either, all you have is an objection without a basis. Right?goout:
No, my question isn’t about anything other than an interest to see how people answer the problem.
Your answer is that nature is maybe ‘journeying into something transcendent’. I think I’ll put that down as a ‘don’t know’.
here you are, days on end looking for answers to life’s questions on a Catholic blog. If you want to discover what gives someone’s life meaning and purpose, observe how they spend valuable time.
And you my friend attain meaning and purpose from thinking and talking about God.
Go ahead, start wiggling now.
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nicholasG
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I happen to disagree with Molinism but as far as I know, middle knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with “knowledge of “nothing.” I never heard that. I’d be very interested to find out were you got that idea.
What I do know about middle knowledge is that it comes between God’s natural knowledge and God’s free knowledge. It uses counterfactuals.
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Freddy
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No, I do have an answer. For some people, and I think this includes you, it’s a mystery. I’m interested in finding out what people think if they believe there is an answer.Freddy:
Well, you don’t have any good answers either, all you have is an objection without a basis. Right?goout:
No, my question isn’t about anything other than an interest to see how people answer the problem.
Your answer is that nature is maybe ‘journeying into something transcendent’. I think I’ll put that down as a ‘don’t know’.
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nicholasG
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You’re wrong.
In the case of middle knowledge counterfactual is used as a noun (an if statement) - (If I were rich, I would buy a Mercedes). not an adjective.
Also, knowledge of everything is omniscience not omnipotence
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nicholasG
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Both are definitely not legitimate.
You’re perfectly free to think that God’s omniscience & omnipotents is nonsense. I don’t.
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goout
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It’s not an opinion, it’s sane observation. You choose to be indifferent, you choose to obsess on blame for trials.
You exist. You come into being out of fertility, creativity.
If you look around, that’s what love does. It is never self absorbed, it flows out, and that outward flowing is creative.
Love brings other things to be.
so, unless you are responsible for your own existence…you have to give credit to a loving creator.
Or, you can bemoan.
But here you are, talking about God, searching for God, bringing meaning and purpose to your life. Look at how a person spends his time, and you will know what is meaningful to him or her. Good you are here.
You exist. You come into being out of fertility, creativity.
If you look around, that’s what love does. It is never self absorbed, it flows out, and that outward flowing is creative.
Love brings other things to be.
so, unless you are responsible for your own existence…you have to give credit to a loving creator.
Or, you can bemoan.
But here you are, talking about God, searching for God, bringing meaning and purpose to your life. Look at how a person spends his time, and you will know what is meaningful to him or her. Good you are here.
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