Prop 8: Sorry, I gotta ask

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Proposition 8 is simply an attempt to imbed in the state constitution what has long been law. Family structure is already undermined by permissive divorce laws, and adoption practices that go against the common understanding of what is good for kids. Marriage has becoming hardly more than a wedding and honeymoon, and many people have no intent to remain together for much longer than these occasions. The gay lifestyle does not value long or limited commitment, because it is essentially libertine. Therefore, for many of us, a gay marriage simply mocks a real one.
See this is what I mean when I say that people really don’t know what they are talking about. Whatever the “gay lifestyle” is, it is no more promiscuous than the modern heterosexual culture. All of my gay friends, literally all of them, are in monogamous, long term relationships. I think it is unfair to place a whole group of people under one stereotype just because that’s what you see on TV or read in the newspaper or magazines.
 
See this is what I mean when I say that people really don’t know what they are talking about. Whatever the “gay lifestyle” is, it is no more promiscuous than the modern heterosexual culture. All of my gay friends, literally all of them, are in monogamous, long term relationships. I think it is unfair to place a whole group of people under one stereotype just because that’s what you see on TV or read in the newspaper or magazines.
It’s funny [not to mention, very clever] that you mention that. For certain groups of people, everything on the media is nonsense, until it goes *against *what they hate.

:rotfl:
 
I am sorry, but it is ideas like these that are fantasy. I can understand your disagreement with the mainstream GLBT community on the issue of marriage, but using gay folks as a scapegoat for all of societies woes is quite malicious. Perhaps you should not comment on things you really know nothing about.
How do you figure anyone is “using gay folks as a scapegoat” when THEY’RE the ones who started this war for the right to get married? How did you come up with that fantasy?
 
How do you figure anyone is “using gay folks as a scapegoat” when THEY’RE the ones who started this war for the right to get married? How did you come up with that fantasy?
I was only going by the post which seemed to suggest the world and all that is good will come to an end because of gay couples wanting to get married.
 
See this is what I mean when I say that people really don’t know what they are talking about. Whatever the “gay lifestyle” is, it is no more promiscuous than the modern heterosexual culture. All of my gay friends, literally all of them, are in monogamous, long term relationships. I think it is unfair to place a whole group of people under one stereotype just because that’s what you see on TV or read in the newspaper or magazines.
So let me get this straight: Becasue the insitution of marriage is a train wreck, rather then seeking to stregthen it and uphold it, we should seek to undermine it further? In essence that is what you are saying.
 
You are amazing.

Thanks being being one of the few on this forum who understand that gay marriage is no big deal, unless you’re actually gay. The sky didn’t fall in June, July, August, September, October or the first 4 days of November, and it won’t fall again when Prop 8 gets overturned. There are way better ways for Catholics to show that Jesus loves everyone besides wanting to break up families.

So thanks again.
And this can be turned right around on you: When prop 8 passed, did the sky fall? Did the world end? No. Did homosexuals have to give up their “alternative life style?” No. Although the way they were acting, you would have thought so. If the court upholds prop 8 (most legal analyists are saying it will- yet at the same time allow the previous “marriages” to remain valid.)

Hence it works both ways. Whatever happens the world will keep turning. That is not the question. The question is what the homosexual community is demanding. It is one thing to ask for and expect “tolerance” and even “respect” for them as people of the state and people of God. However it is quite another to demand “acceptance” and even demand that that the state and people condone, support, and endorse their behavior. That is what the big deal is, and that goes too far.

The reality is that IF homosexuals are truly conmfortable with who they are, they don’t need the state or its people to endorse them or their life style. They ought to be quite confortable with the fact that the majority of people tolerate their life style in the name of “freedom” etc. One needs to ask them “Why do you feel you need the approval of the state and the large majority of its people for your life style?” The reality is that most people do not approve, why does that bother the homosexual community?

Sir, I think the real issue has nothing to do with marriage, etc. The real issue has to do with whether or not the homosexual community feels that the majority of people endorse and condone their behavior, as opposed to merely tolerate it. If the court overturns prop 8- they will see it as a victory not becasue they can all get married necessarily, (thought that would certainly be part of it) but becasue they will see it as a vindication of their life style. The thing is that a court victory will be an illusion. It will give the apprearence that their behavior is condoned and endorsed, when in reality it is forced and imposed on people by the holy high few unelected unaccountable judges. People will come to resent them even more if they get a court victory. Is that what they really want?

Though I cannot condone or support homosexual behavior as a Catholic Christian- becasue God has revealed it is not part of his plan for the human race, I can tolerate and respect homosexuals as people of God and people of the state. I (most likely just like everyone else) have homosexual friends. I think the CA homosexual community can do a lot more for itself by letting the issue drop. The more they push and sue, the more they are going to turn people against their cause. If they want to “marry” they should seek to make it happen the same way prop 8 happend- not through the courts- where by a high, hold, few activsts judges simply impose their view on everyone, but constitutionally and through the legeslative process. The courts were never meant to legeslate. Right now the ammendment stands. Instead of sue, sue, sue, and having the activist courts hand them everything they want on a silver pladder, use the legeslative process, just like the supporers of prop 8 did.
 
So let me get this straight: Becasue the insitution of marriage is a train wreck, rather then seeking to stregthen it and uphold it, we should seek to undermine it further? In essence that is what you are saying.
No, i am opposed to the idea of gay marriage. What I am saying is that you can not use the argument that the “gay lifestyle” undermines the values of commitment and monogamy. As I said, the “lifesyle” of all the gay people I know is that of committed, monogamous, long-term relationships. The best argument, in my opinion, against gay marriage is simply that two men and two women can not get married because that is not what defines a marriage. And to those who would redefine marriage I would say that they should seriously consider the prudence of that decision. God bless!
 
You are amazing.

Thanks being being one of the few on this forum who understand that gay marriage is no big deal, unless you’re actually gay. The sky didn’t fall in June, July, August, September, October or the first 4 days of November, and it won’t fall again when Prop 8 gets overturned. There are way better ways for Catholics to show that Jesus loves everyone besides wanting to break up families.

So thanks again.
Let me just add that I think the CA homosexual community would gain for itself a lot more respect if they sought to overturn the proposition through the legeslative process. I don’t mean to speak for all supporters of prop 8, perhaps I should just speak for myself. I know for myself I would respect them more if they sought to overturn the prop in the manner in which the constitution says: through the legeslative process and through the people, as opposed to getting the high holy justices to simply hand them everything they want on a silver pladder.
 
Sadly, the GLBT movement is ABSOLUTELY adding to our world’s demographic problems. Try reading America Alone, Mark Steyn; Fewer, Ben J. Wattenberg; The Empty Cradle, Philip Longman, or The Truth About Same Sex Marriage, Erwin Lutzer. Is it the only problem? No. But again, this doesn’t diminish the destruction it is causing within the society. In the USA, we have become a nation that protects a few and doesn’t care about the good for the majority. Its happening all over the world, in Europe especially.

Too many do not listen or even seek the voice of God in their lives. Too many do not live the faith they are called to as Christians. And this is where we get into trouble! We are not repentant for our sins. And with each piece of legislation and step we take that erodes at the basic foundation of life and liberty, we lose ourselves as individuals and as a nation. This hasn’t happened overnight. Its been a slow gradual erosion. And too many Catholics/Christians were silent as the slow fade was occuring.
 
No, i am opposed to the idea of gay marriage. What I am saying is that you can not use the argument that the “gay lifestyle” undermines the values of commitment and monogamy. As I said, the “lifesyle” of all the gay people I know is that of committed, monogamous, long-term relationships. The best argument, in my opinion, against gay marriage is simply that two men and two women can not get married because that is not what defines a marriage. And to those who would redefine marriage I would say that they should seriously consider the prudence of that decision. God bless!
For the most part I agree.
 
Sadly, the GLBT movement is ABSOLUTELY adding to our world’s demographic problems. Try reading America Alone, Mark Steyn; Fewer, Ben J. Wattenberg; The Empty Cradle, Philip Longman, or The Truth About Same Sex Marriage, Erwin Lutzer. Is it the only problem? No. But again, this doesn’t diminish the destruction it is causing within the society. In the USA, we have become a nation that protects a few and doesn’t care about the good for the majority. Its happening all over the world, in Europe especially.

Too many do not listen or even seek the voice of God in their lives. Too many do not live the faith they are called to as Christians. And this is where we get into trouble! We are not repentant for our sins. And with each piece of legislation and step we take that erodes at the basic foundation of life and liberty, we lose ourselves as individuals and as a nation. This hasn’t happened overnight. Its been a slow gradual erosion. And too many Catholics/Christians were silent as the slow fade was occuring.
Speaking as a gay man, one of my biggest problems with the mainstream GLBT community, and with the world in general, is that we have become too individualistic. Accepting who you are and affirming yourself is one thing, but trying to get everything you want and giving little to no thought as to how it might effect everyone else around you, is quite problematic. There needs to be a balance, I think, and I think people need to be able to meet in the middle and charitably discuss their differences without jumping to conclusions or hurling insults. And I think the gay community needs to start giving more consideration to where the Church and the more conservative elements of society are coming from in this issue. We may not be able to agree, but hopefully we could get to a point where we could, in all charity, agree to disagree.
 
Speaking as a gay man, one of my biggest problems with the mainstream GLBT community, and with the world in general, is that we have become too individualistic. Accepting who you are and affirming yourself is one thing, but trying to get everything you want and giving little to no thought as to how it might effect everyone else around you, is quite problematic. There needs to be a balance, I think, and I think people need to be able to meet in the middle and charitably discuss their differences without jumping to conclusions or hurling insults. And I think the gay community needs to start giving more consideration to where the Church and the more conservative elements of society are coming from in this issue. We may not be able to agree, but hopefully we could get to a point where we could, in all charity, agree to disagree.
Right on!
 
In response to all of these posts, I would hope that whether Prop 8 is overturned or not, it is about equality and not putting one group over the other. Domestic partnership and Marriage should contain the same financial rights, considering that marriage is a religious concept, not to be tampered with by the government.

I would hope that if Prop 8 is overturned, same-sex couples won’t try push their luck *too *much by testing a church to marry them. Unfortunately, it is almost certain that they will be turned down, and if they try to sue, all Hell will break loose.

I wish things were different, but what can I say? Logical and critical thinking, along with understanding, has been thrown out the window, and apparently, there is nothing I can do about it, but nothing the people of any church *wants *to do about it.

All I can really say, that is most likely for sure: The fight is not over and will never be over. It’s the civil rights movement all over again, but this time, the Church–a rock solid mind-- is involved. This is going to be an interesting battle as the years drag on.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
Spiritually, it is liberating.

But when it comes to evolving as a society, environmentally and “technologically” (if that’s even a word), it slows us down.
Are you kidding?
Let me guess you probably think the 20th century was a progressive triumph. The Church has been the greatest force for good in world history.
 
Are you kidding?
Let me guess you probably think the 20th century was a progressive triumph. The Church has been the greatest force for good in world history.
Uhh… let’s not flatter ourselves *too *much. 😉

But I’ll level with you, in all honesty. Every religion *does *have it’s moment-- that’s a given. 👍

There are other times, however, when it’s a bit of a ball n’ chain. I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my heart and soul that this is the moment. Don’t worry, though. I’m only a teenager. 😛
 
The issue came up and so we had to face the issue. I see nothing wrong with that. The gays wanted to destroy the foundation of society and so we protested it in order to get this proposition passed in order to protect marriage which is a foundation of our society.
 
There are other times, however, when it’s a bit of a ball n’ chain. I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my heart and soul that this is the moment. Don’t worry, though. I’m only a teenager. 😛
Somebody in another forum posted a great analogy about following God’s rules. Would you complain if God stopped you from poking your eye out with a pencil? Probably not. But His commands keep us from hurting ourselves far worse than losing an eye.

This is why Jesus says, If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. (Luke 9:23)

In order to deny ourselves and take up our crosses, we have to deny ourselves sinful behaviors and attitudes, such as believing homosexual “marriage” is okay, and follow Him.
 
In line with what Beckymarie just said, in his CD Confession, Larry Richards says that the point of the 10 Commandments is simply that God ordered them. It’s not necessary for us to wonder why (although we can) about each one. What’s important is that they’re from Him (or from Him through the Church). We may like certain commandments much less than others. Doesn’t matter. The command, broadly, is to obey, to follow his Word.
 
Somebody in another forum posted a great analogy about following God’s rules. Would you complain if God stopped you from poking your eye out with a pencil? Probably not. But His commands keep us from hurting ourselves far worse than losing an eye.

This is why Jesus says, If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me. (Luke 9:23)

In order to deny ourselves and take up our crosses, we have to deny ourselves sinful behaviors and attitudes, such as believing homosexual “marriage” is okay, and follow Him.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=289747

That raises another question. 😛

Ironically Yours. ❤️
 
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