Pros and Cons of Mormonism

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Socrates4Jesus said:

  1. *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
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  1. This is not true. I can provide a few links if you are intersted.
    You also have maintained that “men can become gods” is a negative. I linked to a CA thread on the Catholic view of deification. Did you read it?
    Finally, are you really interested in philosophy?
    I linked to 2 books that I think convincingly show the philosophic strength of LDS Christianity relative to non-LDS Christianity.

    Are you gathering info or just making a big check?
    Charity, TOm
 
ralphinal said:
As a rule, I don’t get into the blood fueds that you and some other posters have. Sometimes, I don’t blame you for being frustraited, if not infuriated, at them. This time, the posted mentioned that he has a reading problem and vision issues. I just didn’t want your testimony unfairly viewed by harsh remarks.
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Thank you again. You are also very kind.

zerinus
 
LikeDismas said:
The articles I mentioned do a far better job describing the particulars of Mormon theology. However, in a nutshell, they deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed. They do this because they claim the early Christian Church went apostate and remained that way until Joseph Smith was visited by the Angel Moroni and given the Book of Mormon.

There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down. All evidence instead points to the likelihood that he was a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.

This is unlike the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, which can show a clear line of succession and development reaching to the men lived with, spoke with, and touched Christ.

Again, I think there are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors, but they use Christian terminology to cover a polytheistic and heretical works-based religion.

PS. As an aside, the Temple rituals draw very heavily on Freemasonry, which JS discover AFTER he had discovered/written the Book of Mormon. I’m not going to get started on the danger of Masonic ritual here.
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Thank you, Like.

🙂

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

  1. *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
    *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
    *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
    *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
    *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors
    Cons

    1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      http://www.seofox.com/images/Checkmark.gif
 
Got to go for now. I’ll add the rest of your pros and cons to the list, later. Thank you everyone! You are giving me some good things to think about.

🙂
 
TOmNossor said:
This is not true. I can provide a few links if you are intersted.
You also have maintained that “men can become gods” is a negative. I linked to a CA thread on the Catholic view of deification. Did you read it?
Finally, are you really interested in philosophy?
I linked to 2 books that I think convincingly show the philosophic strength of LDS Christianity relative to non-LDS Christianity.

Are you gathering info or just making a big check?
Charity, TOm
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TOM:

We are in the brainstorming phase of the discussion right now. I want to encourage people to give their honest opinions, not discourage them from participating and adding to the list. Right now, i’m not interested in pointing out any flaws or fallacies. I just want to see what everyone has to say, then step back and take a good hard look at the list. Then i’m sure i’ll have questions, and there will be plenty to discuss.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Thank you, Like.

🙂

Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros

  1. *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
    *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
    *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
    *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
    *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors
    Cons

    1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
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    1. These are false “Cons”. If you were serious about finding the truth about Mormonism, first of all you would not come here to look for it. Secondly, you wouldn’t be posting this thread. That is like a Moslem trying to find the truth of Catholicism by posting a thread about the Pros and Cons of the Catholic Church on a Protestant Evangelical website! How far do you think he would get?

      zerinus
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
TOM:

We are in the brainstorming phase of the discussion right now. I want to encourage people to give their honest opinions, not discourage them from participating and adding to the list. Right now, i’m not interested in pointing out any flaws or fallacies. I just want to see what everyone has to say, then step back and take a good hard look at the list. Then i’m sure i’ll have questions, and there will be plenty to discuss.
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Hmmm!
The brainstorming phase! Ok, we will see.

Pro:
  • Men can become gods. This is the Biblical and Early Church view. To misunderstand it is to misunderstand just what God desires to give to us (and it is His gift that we receive BTW).
  • Mormonism is the highest form of Christianity, containing the most truth and least errors.
  • The BOM has a number of positive evidences, including linguistic, archeological, and historical that make the naturalistic fraud theory (or rather the numerous versions of the naturalistic fraud theories) untenable.
  • Mormonism believes the Apostle’s Creed is a document of an apostate church while still embrace much of it. The ability to reject aspect of developed Christianity is fortunate because some are self-contradictory.
Con:
  • Though there are numerous ancient parallels for the Book of Abraham, the LDS explanation for its coming forward is almost as problematic as the non-LDS explanation for the BOM.
  • Anti-Mormonism like Anti-Catholicism works despite the intellectually lacking nature of most of it.
    Charity, TOm
 
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zerinus:
These are false “Cons”. If you were serious about finding the truth about Mormonism, first of all you would not come here to look for it. Secondly, you wouldn’t be posting this thread. That is like a Moslem trying to find the truth of Catholicism by posting a thread about the Pros and Cons of the Catholic Church on a Protestant Evangelical website! How far do you think he would get?

zerinus
Yes, I suspect this is a silly exercise where victory for the non-LDS position is a forgone conclusion.

It would be radically interesting if our philosopher read Ostler though.
I have made numerous points about doctrinal development/change, the development of the papacy, the inability of Catholicism to explain the BOM and/or the CoJCoLDS, and …
But after reading Ostler, the hurdles that I presently could not get over towards becoming Catholic are philosophical in nature. I either could or do not know I cannot answer the issues I mention here, but I cannot answer the philosophic issues with being a Catholic Christian.
Charity, TOm
 
TOmNossor said:
Yes, I suspect this is a silly exercise where victory for the non-LDS position is a forgone conclusion.

It would be radically interesting if our philosopher read Ostler though.
I have made numerous points about doctrinal development/change, the development of the papacy, the inability of Catholicism to explain the BOM and/or the CoJCoLDS, and …
But after reading Ostler, the hurdles that I presently could not get over towards becoming Catholic are philosophical in nature. I either could or do not know I cannot answer the issues I mention here, but I cannot answer the philosophic issues with being a Catholic Christian.
Charity, TOm
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Thank you Tom. Good to see you around. Have missed your good posts.

zerinus
 
TOmNossor said:
Hmmm!
The brainstorming phase! Ok, we will see.

Pro:
  • Men can become gods. This is the Biblical and Early Church view. To misunderstand it is to misunderstand just what God desires to give to us (and it is His gift that we receive BTW).
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only if one changes the definitions. Men become sons of God through adoption nad “become” Gods only in the sense of the beatific vision where God “shares” his divine nature with us.
TOmNossor said:
  • Mormonism is the highest form of Christianity, containing the most truth and least errors.
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only by mormon definition. it’s easy to be the best when you define the criteria.
TOmNossor said:
  • The BOM has a number of positive evidences, including linguistic, archeological, and historical that make the naturalistic fraud theory (or rather the numerous versions of the naturalistic fraud theories) untenable.
Click to expand...
none of these “evidences” are accepted by any non-LDS subject matter experts.
TOmNossor said:
  • Mormonism believes the Apostle’s Creed is a document of an apostate church while still embrace much of it. The ability to reject aspect of developed Christianity is fortunate because some are self-contradictory.
Click to expand...
yes mormonism believes this. most of the Christian world however believes the creed to be accurate. The accusation of apostasy is a central tenet of mormonism.
TOmNossor said:
Con:
  • Though there are numerous ancient parallels for the Book of Abraham, the LDS explanation for its coming forward is almost as problematic as the non-LDS explanation for the BOM.
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I would call this an understatement at best. Even Hugh Nibbley had issues with this.
TOmNossor said:
  • Anti-Mormonism like Anti-Catholicism works despite the intellectually lacking nature of most of it.
    Charity, TOm
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of course one could say mormonism like Scientology preys upon those susceptible to pseudo intellectual apologetics and a very effective sales training program.
 
Good post Majick,

Also, we are to strive to become perfect, as Jesus is perfect, but we will not actually become so, only grow during our attempt. This is what was meant by the ECFs.

It is not possible for a created being to become divine. Another interesting point is that this is the same carrot (apple) offered to Eve just before she took of the tree of knowledge and death came to mankind.

RAR
 
Jerusha said:
Most readers of the Book of Mormon conclude that their god is racist. Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
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Judging a person by the color of her skin makes about as much sense to me as judging someone by the color of his eyes. Thanks Jerusha.

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

  1. *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
    *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
    *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
    *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
    *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors
    Cons

    1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      http://www.wpclipart.com/signs_symbol/checkmarks/checkmark_Bold_Brush_red.png
 
BartBurk said:
I recently left Mormonism by resigning my membership in the Church. My wife and children are all still active members and I continue to attend sacrament meeting with them every week without communing. They are still nice to me, but I have seen some cases in which a person who departs from the church loses all their friendships. I assume the main reason I am tolerated is because of my family ties.

The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter. If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation. That didn’t bother me when I believed in Mormonism, but once I caught onto the fraud I quit paying. I didn’t get to attend my first son’s marriage ceremony or any of the weddings of my other children if they decide to get married in the temple.
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I appreciate your sharing from your personal experience, Burt. I cannot imagine how you must have felt.

😦

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

  1. *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
    *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
    *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
    *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
    *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors
    Cons

    1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      http://www.karooba.com/Portals/0/checkmark.jpg
 
Burning4Christ said:
The problom with Mormonsim is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature. I apologies for any offense some might take from that statement but it is a fact and I do not apologies for what I said. Mormons are no diffrent from the jehovahs witnesses in how they warp the bible. although the JW’s changed the bible it self, mormons merely added to the end of it with a book that has ,like many have said, no geological evidence to prove its stories true. The bible does. The Mormons beleive that we can all reach a godly state, although they cite verses that say (in so many words, and many verses) that we all are cleansed by the blood of jesus and are sanctified by it. They take this a step further and say we can all reach this state. This contradicts Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” It is impossible for us to become sinless, there was ONE man on this earth that was sinless, Jesus Christ. With sin in our lifes we cannot become like God completely.
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Thanks for your opinion, B4C.

👍

**Pros and Cons of Mormonism:

Pros**

  1. *]There is a strong social support system among active members of the Latter Day Saints Church.
    *]The LDS wards do a better job at creating a sense of belonging than some other religious groups.
    *]Mormons emphasize strong, close, loving family ties.
    *]The LDS welfare system to help those in need is without peer.
    *]There are many well-meaning, good Mormons out there and they make great relatives and neighbors
    Cons

    1. *]Mormonism is not really a Christian religion.
      *]Mormons think they can become gods.
      *]There is absolutely zero linguistic, archaeological or historical support for anything claimed in the Book of Mormon and other LDS documents.
      *]Enjoyment of all that the community has to offer you socially and spiritually is contingent on you receiving a spiritual witness that the Church is true.
      *]They deny almost every line of the Apostle’s Creed.
      *]There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence to back up anything that Joseph Smith ever uttered or wrote down.
      *]Joseph Smith was likely a conman who used a self-made papacy to garner power and sexual conquest.
      *]Racism is the prevalent attitude among LDS.
      *]There are cases in which people who depart from the church lose all their friendships.
      *]The Mormons require 10% of your money to enter the LDS Temple. If you don’t pay them the 10% you aren’t allowed to attend your children’s weddings or any other weddings in the temple for that matter.
      *]If you don’t pay them their 10% they claim you will not make it into heaven so essentially you are paying for salvation.
      *]The problom with Mormonsim is the simple fact that it is pseudo-christian if that and it is polytheistic in nature.
      *]Mormons are no diffrent from the Jehovahs Witnesses in how they warp the bible.
      http://www.superufo.com/uppic/5412482006155751_9.gif
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
I’m the kind who, when i make up my mind that something is the right course to pursue, stays on that path until i reach my destination or die trying. I’ve decided to seriously consider whether Mormonism is the right way for me.

Please tell me what you think is the best, strongest, most convincing reason to accept or reject Mormonism. More importantly, please tell me why. I’m hoping for a wide range of opinions pro and con.
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Because Mormonism is made up. Joseph Smith made the entire religion up so that he could obtain power from the stupid people around him. I could say right now that I had a revelation from God, but does that make it true. NO! God also says that polytheism is a sin. Are you ready to sin against God?
 
Pro: You can have your own planet, procreate and have spirit children after you die.😃

Con: That planet and your wife or wives, children could well be in hell:eek:
 
During my conversion to the Catholic faith, I still had LDS visiting teachers on a regular basis. I consider them as friends, and I shared with them how wonderful it was to find Christ at very the center of the mass and how moved I was by the richness of Catholic worship. One of my VT’s had tears in her eyes and, as a believing Mormon she said, and I quote: “Yes it is so sad that we don’t speak more of Christ. Its like we’re working at Microsoft, but no one dares talk about Bill Gates”. I’ll never forget her open honesty. She understood why I had to find Jesus and she understood that I was not finding him in the Mormon church.

There is not enough focus on Jesus Christ, and far too much focus on the Church being true, the BOM and LDS prophets being “true”, the goal of going to the temple to have your family sealed to you for eternity, and staying worthy enough to be able to do so. These things are emphasized and talked about far more than Jesus Christ is. That was my experience, and I would not have known the difference had I not experienced both. Soc, I recommend you experience both for yourself.

With regards to temple goals, as has been stated, the LDS church requires 10% tithing to be paid as one of the qualifications for entering the temple. Tithing is not the same thing as a charitable donation to the poor, however. It is money used strictly for building up the kingdom. So when you pay 10% to the church, you cannot specify that you would like that money to go to the humanitarian fund, and have it “count” toward your temple recommend requirement. If you can afford an offering of 10%, it must go toward building up the kingdom vs. the humanitarian fund, or you forfeit your temple privileges. It is a “blessings-for-me” theology and mentality. I pay my tithe, and I am given entrance to the temple. I think this puts too much focus on doing things, and even giving charitable donations for purposes of self rather than on simply helping those in need. There are always “blessings for myself” attached to obedience, and even for service to others.

The biggie for me, on top of everything else that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is, the doctrine that God was once a man just like any other man; who lived on an earth and progressed to Godhood. This is in direct conflict with what God has said of himself. He said he is Eternally God. The Great I AM. He Who Is. Without beginning or end. You can believe Jesus or you can believe Joseph Smith. The contradiction is too great to believe them both.
 
truthsilence said:
The biggie for me, on top of everything else that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is, the doctrine that God was once a man just like any other man; who lived on an earth and progressed to Godhood. This is in direct conflict with what God has said of himself. He said he is Eternally God. The Great I AM. He Who Is. Without beginning or end. You can believe Jesus or you can believe Joseph Smith. The contradiction is too great to believe them both.
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Nicely put truthsilence… I tried to say the same thing, but it was not as eloquent. Your background in the LDS church seems to have given you particular insight.

Thank you for your comments… and congrats on swimming the Tiber. God bless!

RAR
 
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