Protestant DH has issues with Mary and the Saints

[kage_ar]

Although I still dont believe we are to be asking the Saints in heaven for anything(per the bible)

Allfor…

What passages in the Bible are you referencing?

If you list them, it would make the discussion more balanced.

Kage

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Hi,
Thanks for clarifying for me as to how the catholics do it. I have always got the impression that you would just simply pray to a saint without going through Jesus. Although I still dont believe we are to be asking the Saints in heaven for anything(per the bible)you have clarified your belief for me.

I see it as why ask anyone else to help you when you have Jesus Christ as our brother to ask, the Son of God.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Allfor…

What passages in the Bible are you referencing?

If you list them, it would make the discussion more balanced.

Kage

Hi,

What I should have said is there are no passages in the bible that say we should pray to any saint.The only person we are told **to pray to **is God through Jesus. There are passages that say we can pray for saints(on earth) but, there are no passages that say it would help us to pray to the ones in heaven already.
I hope I am being clear.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I see it as why ask anyone else to help you when you have Jesus Christ as our brother to ask, the Son of God.

:yup:

 

[kage_ar]

I see it as why ask anyone else to help you when you have Jesus Christ as our brother to ask, the Son of God.

Jesus seemed to feel that gathering a group of believers was important, He taught us to call each other brother and sister, and to pray for one another.

You really never ask someone else to pray for you?

 

[RNRobert]

I see it as why ask anyone else to help you when you have Jesus Christ as our brother to ask, the Son of God.

Then by that logic, we don’t need to bother to ask our friends, family, and fellow Christians to pray for us.

Also, read Revelation 8:3-4, which shows a scene in heaven:

8:3. And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God.
8:4. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

If those who die in Christ are present with the Lord, then surely they would be aware of the prayers of those still on earth.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Then by that logic, we don’t need to bother to ask our friends, family, and fellow Christians to pray for us.

Also, read Revelation 8:3-4, which shows a scene in heaven:

8:3. And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God.
8:4. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

If those who die in Christ are present with the Lord, then surely they would be aware of the prayers of those still on earth.

Saints are those set apart by God. It says nothing of whether they are necessarily in Heaven or not or who they are, for that matter. You and I could be saints. Who knows?
It says nothing of praying to them.
We ask our friends and family to pray with us to God. We don’t pray to them.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Then by that logic, we don’t need to bother to ask our friends, family, and fellow Christians to pray for us.

Hi, You could say that except God does tell us to do so.

Also, read Revelation 8:3-4, which shows a scene in heaven:

Yes Im sure they could be aware of our prayers but that has notthing to do with whether or not we are to pray to them.

 

[water]

Yes Im sure they could be aware of our prayers but that has notthing to do with whether or not we are to pray to them.

We ask them for their intercession - just as we ask our friends praying for us. The Saints who see God face to face, more alive…why shouldn’t I take advantage of that!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We ask them for their intercession - just as we ask our friends praying for us. The Saints who see God face to face, more alive…why shouldn’t I take advantage of that!

Hi,
Well I suppose there is nothing wrong with trying:thumbsup: I just prefer to go straight to the source:thumbsup:

 

[kage_ar]

Saints are those set apart by God. It says nothing of whether they are necessarily in Heaven or not or who they are, for that matter. You and I could be saints. Who knows?
It says nothing of praying to them.
We ask our friends and family to pray with us to God. We don’t pray to them.

That is where we are talking past each other! We need to define the word “pray”

From:

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

v. tr.

1. 
   *]To utter or say a prayer or prayers to; address by prayer.
   *]To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech. Now often used elliptically for I pray you to introduce a request or entreaty: Pray be careful.
   *]To make a devout or earnest request for: I pray your permission to speak.
   *]To move or bring by prayer or entreaty.

 

[water]

Hi,
Well I suppose there is nothing wrong with trying:thumbsup: I just prefer to go straight to the source:thumbsup:

We are not only go straight to the source, we are also asking those who are next by the source “Face to Face” for us. Isn’t that awesome!

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Jesus seemed to feel that gathering a group of believers was important, He taught us to call each other brother and sister, and to pray for one another.

You really never ask someone else to pray for you?

I agree and I ask people to pray for me all the time.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You and I could be saints. Who knows?

Guess WhAT!! We are considered Saints Paul in Romans calls the Christians Saints. Think about it–we are set apart once we believe. What are we set apart from —The World and we are set apart to do what–TO PREACH THE GOSPEL and to live a Godly life so to be a light to the non-believer so they can see what we have and want it also.]

It says nothing of praying to them.
We ask our friends and family to pray with us to God. We don’t pray to them.

EXACTLY:thumbsup:

 

[RNRobert]

It’s probably been mentioned before, either on this thread or another, but the word “pray” meant to “implore” or “beseech.” When we pray to Mary and the Saints, we are NOT placing them on the same level as God.

I will give another Scriptural example supporting Catholic teaching: Hebrews 11 tells of those who were faithful to God. Then Chapter 12 says:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us…

the sacred writer conveys the image of a heavenly stadium where those who have gone before us are cheering us on as we run the race.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

It’s probably been mentioned before, either on this thread or another, but the word “pray” meant to “implore” or “beseech.” When we pray to Mary and the Saints, we are NOT placing them on the same level as God.

I will give another Scriptural example supporting Catholic teaching: Hebrews 11 tells of those who were faithful to God. Then Chapter 12 says:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us…

the sacred writer conveys the image of a heavenly stadium where those who have gone before us are cheering us on as we run the race.

Yes they are cheering us on but does it say they are able to intercede for us through prayer? Cheering us on is not the same as interceding for us.

 

[RNRobert]

Hi,
Well I suppose there is nothing wrong with trying:thumbsup: I just prefer to go straight to the source:thumbsup:

James 5:13-14:

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. If going “straight to the source” is sufficient, why does the sick person need to ask the leaders of the church to pray for him?

 

[RNRobert]

Yes they are cheering us on but does it say they are able to intercede for us through prayer? Cheering us on is not the same as interceding for us.

So, you’re saying these holy men and women of God would not intercede for us while they are cheering us on? If YOU were in that number (as the old song says ), are you saying you would not intercede for your loved ones?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

James 5:13-14:

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. If going “straight to the source” is sufficient, why does the sick person need to ask the leaders of the church to pray for him?

Hi,

Th is another example of intercessory prayers. The Saints praying for each other. I do believe in this as well.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So, you’re saying these holy men and women of God would not intercede for us while they are cheering us on? If YOU were in that number (as the old song says ), are you saying you would not intercede for your loved ones?

Hi,

I honestly dont know if they do. The bible is completely silent on whether or not they pray for us. I dont know what goes on in heaven–yet