Protestant Girlfriend - What to do!?

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pianistclare said:
Eh–I know a lot of people do it, but I’m uncomfortable with the practice of significant others as RCIA sponsors. What happens when, down the road, you get really disenchanted with your husband/wife/RCIA sponsor? I know it sometimes is a necessity, but I would not the dual role as a first option.
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Agree. In this Diocese, the practice of sponsoring one’s spouse is greatly discouraged.
Many people convert “for the sake of their spouse” which is the wrong reason.

RCIA Candidates benefit form an objective sponsor on the path.
Someone to answer questions and lead, not one to push along and color their remarks with inside knowledge.

Pianistclare, just curious, but was this in response to my comment? If so, I just want to clarify that my husband and I both went through RCIA at the same time as candidates with different sponsors. 🙂 The wait referred to was of joining up with the RCIA group in the first place.
 
traceria said:
Agree. In this Diocese, the practice of sponsoring one’s spouse is greatly discouraged.
Many people convert “for the sake of their spouse” which is the wrong reason.

RCIA Candidates benefit form an objective sponsor on the path.
Someone to answer questions and lead, not one to push along and color their remarks with inside knowledge.
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Pianistclare, just curious, but was this in response to my comment? If so, I just want to clarify that my husband and I both went through RCIA at the same time as candidates with different sponsors. 🙂 The wait referred to was of joining up with the RCIA group in the first place.

No it was not you… apparently when I edited the post listed as mine, but was in fact someone else’s , I goofed again, and now it’s all confuzzled…

😊 embarrassing…
I might never get the hang of this…:banghead:

Color me “doofus-magoofus”.
Peace to you,
pianist
 
Pianstclare - No biggy! I was left wondering why it put part of your quote in the special quote bubble but not all of it. :o I’m very new here, so definitely trying to get the hang of things, too!
 
Thanks again all. I’ll just point out a couple things:
I have been to her church, a few times actually. I’ve also attended numerous Christian talks/bible studies and a camp with her.

I also have done research on Presbyterianism though obviously I’m not an expert on that particular denomination. Also, I told her last night that I’m keen on explaining what the mass was about but she replied "It’s okay, the title was pretty self explanatory’. I really want to explain it to her though :mad:

Finally I’ve read through an entire anti-Catholic book she encouraged me to read. Maybe you guys have heard about it before, ‘Nothing in my hand I bring’. Apparently it ‘helped a lot of people’ with their faith. Anyway, with Rome Sweet Home she only read up to like chapter 3 or 4 and gave it back to me. So it was pretty cut, although I didn’t want to force her to read it all on top of her workload. SO, hopefully that gives at least SOME evidence of me not being close minded - I even prayed for being open to receive Protestantism as the way to go (if it was the truth), back when I was starting to get into my research.

I really try to be as loving as possible when speaking to her, Through my posts, does it seem like I’m prideful or not respectful or her faith? I really see Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ. They just understand things (which are really important) differently. Any advice on making the breaking up process easier? I feel so sad asking such a question. I’m hating this.
 
Mr_Ignatius said:
Thanks again all. I’ll just point out a couple things:
I have been to her church, a few times actually. I’ve also attended numerous Christian talks/bible studies and a camp with her.

I also have done research on Presbyterianism though obviously I’m not an expert on that particular denomination.

I told her last night that I’m keen on explaining what the mass was about but she replied "It’s okay, the title was pretty self explanatory’.

Finally I’ve read through an entire anti-Catholic book she encouraged me to read. Maybe you guys have heard about it before, ‘Nothing in my hand I bring’. Apparently it ‘helped a lot of people’ with their faith. Anyway, with Rome Sweet Home she only read up to like chapter 3 or 4 and gave it back to me. So it was pretty cut, although I didn’t want to force her to read it all on top of her workload.

I really try to be as loving as possible when speaking to her but does it seem like I’m prideful or not respectful or her faith? I really see Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ. They just understand things (which are really important) differently.
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Dude…grow a pair…move on there will be lots more where she came from. I can’t believe how you talk like everything is your problem and your issue and your time and your effort, while she coasts along doing what she wants.

Sorry to be so "grab you by the lapels " but I see too much of myself in you and I spent 9 years in hell on earth.
 
Haha thanks Jon.

And sorry if I sound like one of those annoying people who complain but do nothing about it.
 
Why spend time reading a bunch of secondary sources like Rome Sweet Rome or Nothing in my hand I bring?

Read the original sources. The New Testament is a Catholic work. Read Matthew 16 (establishment of the papacy and the church), Ephesians (the four marks of the church) John 6, The Last Supper discourses, 1 Corinthians 11 (Eucharist), The Farewell discourse in John 14-17 (the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church), Hebrews (to refute perserverance of the saints), James (to refute sola fide), 1 & 2 Timothy (apostolic succession), , etc. etc.

Help with this would be from Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch’s new testament study bible, only 17 bucks on amazon. There’s enough in there to share and discuss for months and months.

I would recommend not just dumping her. It’s hard to find a good christian girl these days, and she seems pretty nice.
 
Mr_Ignatius said:
Haha thanks Jon.

And sorry if I sound like one of those annoying people who complain but do nothing about it.
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No,

You sound like a nice guy, who cares for people and their feelings, and is respectful and encouraging to others.

But people like us get taken advantage of, manipulated, played.

So they are good things overall, but you have to learn to be yourself and worry at least a little for yourself in the context of intimate relationships like marriage. If not, you will go along and little resentments will build over time and she will dismiss your attempts to bring it up and you won’t bring much up to begin with because you want to “love” her, and your relationship will slowly get worse and worse and worse.

Another reason not to go “hard and fast”. You are young and you need to figure yourself out and what that looks like in the context of marriage.

The other thing about this is, most Protestant churches have very watered down views on what marriage really is. The Catholic Church has a very deep and rich and unique understanding of marriage. If My ex and I had known the catholic marriage teachings and bought into them, we’d probably be together still.
 
Mr Ignatius said:

“I have been to her church, a few times actually. I’ve also attended numerous Christian talks/bible studies and a camp with her.”

And she’s gone to one Mass and not quite made it through Rome Sweet Home.

Advantage: Mr. Ignatius.

“I also have done research on Presbyterianism though obviously I’m not an expert on that particular denomination.”

Good.

The offshoots of Calvinism actually have a very interesting intellectual tradition. There are a lot of really smart Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga

Interestingly, Plantinga taught at Notre Dame for many years.

At the higher levels, there’s a lot of very interesting and fruitful intellectual back and forth going on between academic Catholic and academic Protestants.

"I told her last night that I’m keen on explaining what the mass was about but she replied “It’s okay, the title was pretty self explanatory’.”

??? I’d be tempted to ask her, so what is the Mass, anyway?

Again, she may be a very nice girl, but even going beyond religious incompatibility, I’m getting the vibe that she and Mr Ignatius are mismatched with regard to intellectual curiosity. I think that long-term, Mr. Ignatius would be happier with a more intellectual, more adventurous Catholic woman. It’s very possible that eventually your girlfriend will grow out of her Protestant bubble, but I wouldn’t stick around waiting for that to happen.

“I really try to be as loving as possible when speaking to her but does it seem like I’m prideful or not respectful or her faith?”

Giving a Presbyterian woman that you’re seeing a book about a Presbyterian pastor and his wife converting to Catholicism is a wee bit forward, especially since there’s a long section in that book where Kimberly is suffering terribly from the religious division in their family caused by the fact that Scott converted several years earlier than she did. But she probably didn’t get to that part, which I think is the really interesting one for the two of you.

I don’t think mutual proselytizing is a great dating activity.
 
The stuff you mentioned in your initial post about her hostility to your desire to have a Catholic wedding and your desire to practice NFP is also a really important clue that the two of you would have a very hard time being happily married. Again, there’s a gender issue here–with a Catholic wife/non-Catholic husband, the NFP issue (while difficult) is not actually impossible, but with a Catholic husband/uncooperative non-Catholic wife, it might not be even theoretically possible.

There’s a section in Rome Sweet Home where Kimberly talks about NFP and how it means a total physical commitment on her part. She tells the joke about the chicken deciding that she and the pig should do a ham and egg breakfast in order to thank Farmer Brown. The punchline is that as the pig points out, while the egg is a donation for the chicken, the ham is a total commitment for the pig. It’s not much of a joke, but there is a point to it. Your girlfriend has probably for many years imagined having a lovely Presbyterian husband and 2.00 adorable Presbyterian children (no more and no less) and that’s why this is all so hard.

On reflection, it’s really too bad she didn’t read the whole book.

To summarize, she loves you, but not the Catholic parts of you.
 
Dear one…
You’re trying to stitch together a whole quilt out of a mismatched pair of socks.
I agree with what Jon said…
wake up.
smell the coffee.
I’ve lost track of the various ways she has told you she is not interested in your faith. Furthermore, it’s clear she does not even RESPECT your faith. You have “researched” hers to the point to where you think you can justify a relationship. You’re trying really hard to say “hey, we’re no that different, we MIGHT be able to make this work.”
And her response?
uh…no. No. NO.
Her pastor’s response I don’t get. Forgive me, but are you guys intimate? I can’t think of any reason why a pastor of any denomination would try to pressure people as young as you 2 are into marriage. Unless…
If that’s not it, I don’t get it. You both are far too young.
You can be friends. As I said before: Be kind. It’s not a failure on your part. Honest.
But she’s not going to ever bend to your way of thinking. **She’s very clear on that. **
If she’s so great, why don’t you listen to her?
It’s only going to get harder the longer you wait, and it will really hurt.
 
pianistclare said:

“I can’t think of any reason why a pastor of any denomination would try to pressure people as young as you 2 are into marriage.”

I’ll venture a few guesses, and Mr Ignatius can say if I’m wrong. I’m guessing that the pastor is very young himself, so Mr Ignatius and his girlfriend don’t seem that young to him. (It’s not unlikely that “pastor” here means just a 20-something leader of a campus parachurch organization, rather than a 40-year-old guy in a suit with a mortgage and wife and three kids.)

Also, it does enter into it that being Protestant, the pastor might consider lengthy “dating” more of a problem than a failed early marriage.

Plus, he’s probably counting on the Mr Ignatius’s girlfriend’s persuasive powers to close the deal.

Mr Ignatius, how did I do?
 
Xantippe said:
pianistclare said:

“I can’t think of any reason why a pastor of any denomination would try to pressure people as young as you 2 are into marriage.”

I’ll venture a few guesses, and Mr Ignatius can say if I’m wrong. I’m guessing that the pastor is very young himself, so Mr Ignatius and his girlfriend don’t seem that young to him. (It’s not unlikely that “pastor” here means just a 20-something leader of a campus parachurch organization, rather than a 40-year-old guy in a suit with a mortgage and wife and three kids.)

Also, it does enter into it that being Protestant, the pastor might consider lengthy “dating” more of a problem than a failed early marriage.

Plus, he’s probably counting on the Mr Ignatius’s girlfriend’s persuasive powers to close the deal.

Sounds plausible…:hmmm: But what would be in it for him?
Why would he care?
If he had any inkling that Mr. I wanted her to convert, you’d think he’d want to sterr them apart. Makes no sense. :nope:
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Xantippe said:
pianistclare said:

“I can’t think of any reason why a pastor of any denomination would try to pressure people as young as you 2 are into marriage.”

I’ll venture a few guesses, and Mr Ignatius can say if I’m wrong. I’m guessing that the pastor is very young himself, so Mr Ignatius and his girlfriend don’t seem that young to him. (It’s not unlikely that “pastor” here means just a 20-something leader of a campus parachurch organization, rather than a 40-year-old guy in a suit with a mortgage and wife and three kids.)

Also, it does enter into it that being Protestant, the pastor might consider lengthy “dating” more of a problem than a failed early marriage.

Plus, he’s probably counting on the Mr Ignatius’s girlfriend’s persuasive powers to close the deal.

Sounds plausible…:hmmm: But what would be in it for him?
Why would he care?
If he had any inkling that Mr. I wanted her to convert, you’d think he’d want to steer them apart. Makes no sense. :nope:
Mr Ignatius, how did I do?
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Maybe the pastor is more ecumenical than Mr. Ignatius’s girlfriend?
 
That was weird–I thought I was replying to another pianistclare post and then it disappeared.
 
What I thought the pastor and his wife meant when they told us to figure things out and do it fast. I also were implying that it’s bad for us to continue with the relationship if we know its not going to work out - it will just make things harder for us in the end. So not really talking about marriage but I guess thats where the ‘hard and fast’ leads to.

Also the pastor is like early 30’s and wife is like mid 20s.

I’m going to discuss with my girlfriend tonight. As a matter of fact I’m going to visit her church and a bible study she’s got going on (she just invited me) and I haven’t spent time with her in a couple days so I thought might as well.

Will talk about these things on the way home! Scared as hell. Wish my luck and shoot me a prayer if you can.

God bless
 
Mr Ignatius said:

“What I thought the pastor and his wife meant when they told us to figure things out and do it fast. I also were implying that it’s bad for us to continue with the relationship if we know its not going to work out - it will just make things harder for us in the end. So not really talking about marriage but I guess thats where the ‘hard and fast’ leads to.”

That sounds much more sensible.

I think the two of you just haven’t had enough time to spend with each other to talk at length about difficult issues (she seems to spend a lot more time doing churchy things than with you). I’m not talking about proselytizing each other, but talking about the nitty gritty of a mixed marriage: your need for a canonically appropriate wedding, your need to raise your children Catholic, and your need to not use artificial birth control or sterilization. (As you may have noticed, those are very hot topics on the forums–married couples struggle a lot with those.)

You can ask her if those are things she is open to if you should eventually marry. If the answer is no, I think you have your answer.

Best wishes!
 
Thanks unfortunately we didn’t get to talk about those issues specifically but we did talk broadly. With advice from all the posters, my friends and family, leaders and Priests. I told her how I’ve been feeling in the most loving way I could in the moment. I told her the truth of avoiding the topic of us being likely to not work out. Although I didn’t have the guts and the heart to say that I wanted to walk away ‘right now’. We talked over how it COULD happen.

Although I wanted more (name removed by moderator)ut from her she kept on insisting ‘if one of us in the relationship is giving up then thats that’ etc. but she did tell me that she’s okay if I wanted to end it right then and there. I ended up getting out of her what she would like: for us to spend a day together, reminisce and say our proper goodbyes. We plan to do this in about two weeks.

So, I guess we have broken up. I kinda don’t want to think about it because I’ll get all emotional. But it doesn’t even feel like we’ve broken up. I don’t even know if what I did/said was right. Is it actually over now? I don’t feel like I did us justice. I’m so so confused.
 
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