Protestant level in Heaven

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Its is clear as day to me about Glory in Heaven:

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have TREASURE IN HEAVEN . Then come, follow me.”
 
:mad:
I’m not sure anyone noticed my little post, so I’m going to post it again in giant letters:

Levels of Heaven can be found in II Corinthians 12: 1-7, especially verse 2 and verse 4

It’s IN THE BIBLE. “levels of heaven” specifically in the Bible. Yes, there are lots of passages that talk about rewards and crowns and mansions. But there is a specific passage that mentions “levels of heaven” (the OP topic), and it’s II Corinthians 12: 1-7, especially vs. 2 and 4.

I realize that every Protestant’s experience is different, but MY HUSBAND heard sermons about the LEVELS OF HEAVEN (see II CORINTHIANS 12: 1-7, especially vs. 2 and 4) while he was growing up. So it’s a Protestant thing.

Interestingly, I was reading Kempis’s Imitation of Christ today and found passage that talked about the levels of heaven. So it’s a Catholic thing, too.

Actualy, it’s not a Catholic thing or a Protestant thing. It’s a Bible thing. (II Corinthians 12: 1-17, esp. vs. 2 and 4).

I don’t see why there’s a fight on this thread. Wouldn’t it better for us to spend the time figuring out what this passage from the Bible means rather than turning it into a Catholic vs. Protestant thing? I’m very curious as to what the “levels of heaven” are. The Kempis book didn’t make any comments other than to cite the passage.
 
Great post! Becoming more Christ-like, serving others and spreading the gospel message is what the life of a Christian is all about! 👍
Serving Others that is WORKS !!! OH My GOD do you think you
are going to be “SAVED” by WORKS ???
 
:mad:
I’m not sure anyone noticed my little post, so I’m going to post it again in giant letters:

Levels of Heaven can be found in II Corinthians 12: 1-7, especially verse 2 and verse 4

It’s IN THE BIBLE. “levels of heaven” specifically in the Bible. Yes, there are lots of passages that talk about rewards and crowns and mansions. But there is a specific passage that mentions “levels of heaven” (the OP topic), and it’s II Corinthians 12: 1-7, especially vs. 2 and 4.

I realize that every Protestant’s experience is different, but MY HUSBAND heard sermons about the LEVELS OF HEAVEN (see II CORINTHIANS 12: 1-7, especially vs. 2 and 4) while he was growing up. So it’s a Protestant thing.

Interestingly, I was reading Kempis’s Imitation of Christ today and found passage that talked about the levels of heaven. So it’s a Catholic thing, too.

Actualy, it’s not a Catholic thing or a Protestant thing. It’s a Bible thing. (II Corinthians 12: 1-17, esp. vs. 2 and 4).

I don’t see why there’s a fight on this thread. Wouldn’t it better for us to spend the time figuring out what this passage from the Bible means rather than turning it into a Catholic vs. Protestant thing? I’m very curious as to what the “levels of heaven” are. The Kempis book didn’t make any comments other than to cite the passage.
Thank you, why are they coming down on me like a ton of Bricks?
 
Thank you, why are they coming down on me like a ton of Bricks?
Because you posited a question that is inherently egotistical and elitist. Period. What I heard this thread start out as, and heard repeated aspects of it in several posts by multiple authors amounts to a “My holy person is better than your holy person” or “the holiest of Catholics will be better in heaven than that dirty protestant”. You then call a quote of a respected political and religious leader a “joke”.

Frankly, I found it disgusting, juvenile, and a disgrace to religion and faith in general. The “coming down on you” has nothing to do with debating whether or not their are levels of heaven or different degrees of glory or merit or whatever - It has everything to do with the attitude that this post was percieved to have, and attitude that I have seen displayed in the replies.

The comparison of levels of salvation and discussion of Pagans that never can enter Heaven, or that some Christians enter Heaven higher than others, or whatever.

Tell me - and think very hard about this - do you know who Saint Dismas is? Next time you use him as a low standard for comparison, maybe you should look into what your own Church has to say.
 
Because you posited a question that is inherently egotistical and elitist. Period. What I heard this thread start out as, and heard repeated aspects of it in several posts by multiple authors amounts to a “My holy person is better than your holy person” or “the holiest of Catholics will be better in heaven than that dirty protestant”. You then call a quote of a respected political and religious leader a “joke”.

Frankly, I found it disgusting, juvenile, and a disgrace to religion and faith in general. The “coming down on you” has nothing to do with debating whether or not their are levels of heaven or different degrees of glory or merit or whatever - It has everything to do with the attitude that this post was percieved to have, and attitude that I have seen displayed in the replies.

The comparison of levels of salvation and discussion of Pagans that never can enter Heaven, or that some Christians enter Heaven higher than others, or whatever.

Tell me - and think very hard about this - do you know who Saint Dismas is? Next time you use him as a low standard for comparison, maybe you should look into what your own Church has to say.
You get what you Deserve in Heaven.
 
I give up - this is only doing bad things for my blood pressure. I hope one day you see why this whole line of questioning is offensive to people.
I thought the OP had withdrawn from his original “attitude”, re-stated the OP, and then we’ve been discussing that question, after a little dalliance in New Orleans.

I’m not sure it’s fair to re-hash the attitude of the opening statement.
 
I thought the OP had withdrawn from his original “attitude”, re-stated the OP, and then we’ve been discussing that question, after a little dalliance in New Orleans.

I’m not sure it’s fair to re-hash the attitude of the opening statement.
Right, I’m just worry about people getting short-changed out of the
Glory they could of had in Heaven, but were Deceived by false
Teachings, that goes for everybody.

Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; Matt:24;11
 
Right, I’m just worry about people getting short-changed out of the
Glory they could of had in Heaven, but were Deceived by false
Teachings, that goes for everybody.

Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; Matt:24;11
cough
 
Its is clear as day to me about Glory in Heaven:

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have TREASURE IN HEAVEN . Then come, follow me.”
But where does it say, “Go, and sell everything, and if you hurry and do it before that guy over there, you will get more than he does?”
 
Who Believes this is True:

The Fifteen Promises of Mary to Christians Who
Recite the Rosary:
  1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the rosary, shall receive signal graces.
  2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the rosary.
3.The rosary shall be a powerful armour against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

4.It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
  1. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the rosary, shall not perish.
  2. Whoever shall recite the rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life
  3. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.
  4. Those who are faithful to recite the rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.
  5. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the rosary.
  6. The faithful children of the rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in heaven.
  7. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the rosary.
  8. All those who propagate the holy rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
  9. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestal court during their life and at the hour of death.
  10. All who recite the rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only son Jesus Christ.
  11. Devotion of my rosary is a great sign of predestination.
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan) Imprimatur:
  • PATRICK J. HAYES. D.D… Archbishop of New York
 
The only thing in that entire passage that even came close to supporting your arguement was “a high degree of Glory,” which still doesn’t say, “You will be on a higher level of Heaven, and better than others that are there.”

It means that you will be called out by the Blessed Mother, which is a wonderful boon, but not quite like getting a prime condo on the beach next to Jesus’s own mansion . . .
 
About levels in Heaven. Ive not heard about levels per say but have heard that since God recognizes government there would be a organazation of some kind. Then the speaker spoke about fighting hard for the faith and perhaps I cant explain how but gaining importance some how.

sigh I remember thinking well even if I make street sweeper, Im still gonna be happier than those in hell. 🙂

Levels of Heaven and hell, do not matter.

hell without God,

Heaven with God.

I just hope to wake in His arms and hear “Well done good and faithful servant.”
 
Let me try this another way:

Is it possible that if you do something to please Jesus or the Blessed Mother that you might be granted Grace from God that you might limit your time in Purgatory, or that you might avoid it all together?

Yes.

Is it possible that when we are in Heaven Christ might call us forward and aknowledge what we have done that he has asked us to do, or that he might do so on behalf of his Blessed Mother?

Yes.

Is it possible that we will have a grand castle overlooking the valley were all of the people that barely made it into Heaven live?

No.

Jesus did, while he was here on Earth, often call forward someone and cite them as an example. I don’t doubt that this may happen in Heaven. I also beleive its possible that we might be given special responsibilities based on our lives and what we have done with our gifts of faith in Heaven. This is an honor, but it would also be a service, even as the Saints are exalted, but they serve, as they intercede for us in Heaven and pray for us.

I fully believe that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ implemented for his flock on Earth, and that we have been given tremendous gifts in the Sacrements and the Grace that they impart. We have been given amazing tools to help us develop spiritually.

I believe that protestants do not utilize all of the tools and resources for Grace that Jesus and the Holy Spirit instituted for us to use.

However, does this mean than any given Catholic will be a better Christian than any given Protestant? Not at all. Some protestants are much better Christians than the Catholics that they know. Some people are better at using the tools at their disposal than others, even when they have better tools and resources.

The problem with saying that we will have more Glory, that we have merited it, and that we will be on a higher “level” than Protestants is that you have then judged them.

“Judge not lest ye be judged,” does not mean that we cannot recognize an action as wrong, or that we may not admonish or correct that behavior. What it does mean is that we cannot judge the person’s soul. We cannot say that they are worse than we are, and we cannot pronounce upon their soul’s destination. That’s not up to us and we don’t truly know their hearts.

I’m not continuing this because I want to win an arguement. I’d be lying if I said I never did that on the internet before, but in this case, I’m concerned over Techno’s spiritual well being. Not only is this a dangerous stance to have Techno, but its a dangerous image to project. You are portraying the Catholic Church as having some kind of Heavenly Caste system, and reinforcing the notion that we beleive we can earn Heaven for ourselves. You are projecting the wrong image to others who are still seeking.

I don’t know you, and I may be misunderstanding you, but I can see how others are interpreting your words, and they are not brining Glory to God, nor are they instructing anyone to humbly submit their will to God. Please take some time to look at what you have said, to examine what you beleive, and to seek out some advice from someone better prepared to teach the tennants of the faith.
 
The only thing in that entire passage that even came close to supporting your arguement was “a high degree of Glory,” which still doesn’t say, “You will be on a higher level of Heaven, and better than others that are there.”

It means that you will be called out by the Blessed Mother, which is a wonderful boon, but not quite like getting a prime condo on the beach next to Jesus’s own mansion . . .
Graces Derived from Assisting at Mass
  1. The Mass is Calvary continued.
    2.Every Mass is worth as much as the sacrifice of Our Lord’s life, sufferings and death.
  2. Holy Mass is the most powerful atonement for your sins.
  3. At the hour of death the Masses you have heard will be your greatest consolement.
  4. Every Mass will go with you to judgement and plead for pardon.
  5. At Mass you can diminish more or less temporal punishment due to your sins, according to your fervor.
  6. Assisting devoutly at Holy Mass you render to the humanity of Our Lord the greates homage.
  7. He supplies for many of your negligences and omissions.
  8. He forgives the venial sins which you have not confessed. The power of Satan over you is diminished.
  9. You afford the souls in Purgatory the greates possible relief.
  10. One Mass heard during life will be of more benefit to you than many heard for you after your death.
  11. You are preserved from dangers and misfortunes which otherwise might have befallen you. You shorten your Purgatory.
  12. Every Mass wins you a higher degree of glory in Heaven.
  13. You receive the Priest’s blessing which Our Lord ratifies in Heaven.
  14. You kneel amidst a multitude of Holy Angels, who are present at the adorable Sacrifice with reverential awe.
  15. You are blessed in your temporal goods and affairs.
    In eternity, we shall fully realize that it was certainly worthwhile to have assisted at Holy Mass daily.
 
The only thing in that entire passage that even came close to supporting your arguement was “a high degree of Glory,” which still doesn’t say, “You will be on a higher level of Heaven, and better than others that are there.”

It means that you will be called out by the Blessed Mother, which is a wonderful boon, but not quite like getting a prime condo on the beach next to Jesus’s own mansion . . .
As St. Bridget for a long time wanted to know the number of blows Our Lord received during His Passion, He one day appeared to her and said: “I received 5480 blows on My Body. If you wish to honor them in some way, recite fifteen times the Our Father and Hail Mary, together with the following prayers, which I Myself will teach you for an entire year. When the year is finished, you will have honored each of My Wounds.”

Our Lord made the following promises to anyone who recited the fifteen St. Bridget Prayers devoutly every day for a whole year:

Promises
I will deliver 15 souls of his lineage from Purgatory.
15 souls of his lineage will be confirmed and preserved in grace.
15 sinners of his lineage will be converted.
Whoever recites these Prayers will attain the first degree of perfection.
15 days before his death, I will give him My Precious Body in order that he may escape eternal starvation;
I will give him my Precious Blood to drink lest he thirst eternally.
15 days before his death he will feel a deep contrition for all his sins and will have a perfect knowledge of them.
I will place before him the sign of My Victorious Cross for his help and defense against the attacks of his enemies.
Before his death I shall come with My Dearest Beloved Mother.
I shall graciously receive his soul, and will lead it into eternal joys.
And having led it there I shall give him a special draught from the fountain of My Deity, something I will not do for those who have not recited My Prayers.
Let it be known that whoever may have been living in a state of mortal sin for 30 years, but who will recite devoutly, or have the intention to recite these Prayers, I the Lord will forgive him all his sins.
I shall protect him from strong temptations.
I shall preserve and guard his five senses.
I shall preserve him from a sudden death.
His soul will be delivered from eternal death.
He will obtain all he asks for from God and the Blessed Virgin.
If he has lived all his life doing his own will and he is to die the next day, his life will be prolonged.
Every time one recites these Prayers he gains 100 days indulgence.
He is assured of being joined to the supreme Choir of Angels.
Whoever teaches these prayers to another will have continual joy and merit which will last throughout eternity.
There where these Prayers are being said or will be said in the future, God is present with His grace.

First Prayer
Our Father - Hail Mary.
O Jesus Christ! Eternal Sweetness to those who love Thee, joy surpassing all joy and all desire, Salvation and Hope of all sinners, Who hast proved that Thou hast no greater desire than to be among men, even assuming human nature at the fullness of time for the love of men, recall all the sufferings Thou hast endured from the instant of Thy conception, and especially during Thy Passion, as it was decreed and ordained from eternity in the Divine plan.

Remember, O Lord, that during the Last Supper with Thy disciples having washed their feet, Thou gavest them Thy Most Precious Body and Blood, and while at the same time Thou didst sweetly console them, Thou didst fortell them Thy coming Passion.

Remember the sadness and bitterness which Thou didst experience in Thy Soul as Thou Thyself bore witness saying: “My Soul is sorrowful even unto death.”

Remember all the fear, anguish and pain that Thou didst suffer in Thy delicate Body before the torment of the Crucifixion, when, after having prayed three times, bathed in a sweat of blood, Thou wast betrayed by Judas, Thy disciple, arrested by the people of a nation Thou hadst chosen and elevated, accused by false witnesses, unjustly judged by three judges during the flower of Thy youth and during the solemn Paschal season.

Remember that Thou wast despoiled of Thy garments and clothed in those of derision; that Thy Face and Eyes were veiled, that Thou wast buffeted, crowned with thorns, a reed placed in Thy Hands, that Thou wast crushed with blows and overwhelmed with affronts and outrages.

In memory of all these pains and sufferings which Thou didst endure before Thy Passion on the Cross, grant me before my death true contrition, a sincere and entire confession, worthy satisfaction and the remission all my sins. Amen.
 
The only thing in that entire passage that even came close to supporting your arguement was “a high degree of Glory,” which still doesn’t say, “You will be on a higher level of Heaven, and better than others that are there.”

It means that you will be called out by the Blessed Mother, which is a wonderful boon, but not quite like getting a prime condo on the beach next to Jesus’s own mansion . . .
BROTHER ESTANISLAO (1903 - 1927)

At the age of 18, a young Spaniard entered the Novitiate of The Brothers of the Christian Schools at Bugedo. He took the Vow of Regularity, Perfection and Pure Love. In October, 1926, he offered himself to Jesus through Mary. Soon after this heroic donation, he felt ill, and was obliged to rest. He died saintly in March 1927. He was, according to the master of novices, a privileged soul, who received Messages from Heaven. Confessors and Theologians recognized these supernatural facts. His Director asked him to write the Promises made by OUR LORD to those who have devotion to THE WAY OF THE CROSS: They are:
I will grant everything that is asked of Me with faith, when making The Way of the Cross.
I promise Eternal Life to those who pray from time to time, The Way of the Cross.
I will follow them everywhere in life and I will help them, especially at the hour of death.
Even if they have more sins than the blades of grass in the fields and the grains of sand in the sea, all of them will be erased by The Way of the Cross. (Note: This promise does not eliminate the obligation to confess all mortal sins, and this, before we can receive Holy Communion.)
Those who pray The Way of the Cross often will have a special glory in Heaven.
I will deliver them from Purgatory, indeed if they go there at all, the first Tuesday or Friday after their death.
I will bless them at each Way of the Cross, and My blessing will follow them everywhere on earth and, after their death, in Heaven for all Eternity.
At the hour of death I will not permit the devil to tempt them; I will lift all power from him in order that they will repose tranquilly in My Arms.
If they pray it with true love, I will make of each one of them a living Ciborium in which it will please Me to pour My grace.
I will fix My Eyes on those who pray The Way of the Cross often; My hands will always be open to protect them.
As I am nailed to the Cross, so also will I always be with those who honor Me in making The Way of the Cross frequently.
They will never be able to separate themselves from Me, for I will give them the grace never again to commit a Mortal sin.
At the hour of death I will console them with My Presence and we will go together to Heaven. Death will be sweet to all those who have honored Me during their lives by praying The Way of the Cross.
My soul will be a protective shield for them, and will always help them, whenever they have recourse.
 
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