W
water
Guest
HOw does Techno2000’s comment have anything to do with God owning us?
Don’t we all know this already that He owns us nothing? He only offers us His love.
- Status
Don’t we all know this already that He owns us nothing? He only offers us His love.
J
jack_hawkins
Guest
hmmmm times like this I think of John Newton who was content to wash the floor of Westminster Abbey
that’s my role model!
that’s my role model!
B
BlestOne
Guest
Amen!!!
Atemi, This was the point I was trying to make about whose glory his or God’s…
Water, Atemi was trying to point out how Techno2000’s post sounded like he was only into God for the “rewards” he could achieve.
The point is Techno2000, that it isn’t about you or your glory… It is about God and his Glory. It is about what we can do for our Creator and Redeemer not about what we can get out of it. Yes we all hope and pray for salvation, but not Glory! Glory doesn’t belong to us… we didn’t suffer and take on the sins of humanity, we don’t achieve salvation by our own merit, we need God for that… he doesn’t need us.
F
Fate
Guest
Wow, to see someone so clearly miss the mark of their own faith, and in doing so also miss some of the very fundamentals common to all faiths… Well, it is truly a sad thing. Did you learn nothing from Jesus talking to the disciples when they debated who was the greatest? Or what it would take to be great?
I don’t even really consider myself Christian anymore, and I still remember that.
W
water
Guest
Thank you, BlestOne, for explaining further.
T
Techno2000
Guest
I think some of you are missing my point, will Mother Theresa and
the thief on the cross, have the same:Level of Reward,Glory,Merits, etc… in Heaven ?
the thief on the cross, have the same:Level of Reward,Glory,Merits, etc… in Heaven ?
F
Fate
Guest
And even asking this question - in my mind - completely misses the whole point of Heaven and how we should view it.
K
Kevin42
Guest
We really cannot say, and I don’t think it’s right to assume that we can know…no matter how apparent it may seem to us. However, the most holy person will experience more because they are able to, and the least holy will experience less because they are able to.
It’s like having a gallon size and pint size container. In heaven, both will be overflowing with joy, holiness…etc. Both will be full, but one is more full. I hope that makes sense…idk though. I better stop talking
.I agree though that this is not what we should be thinking about alot though. Everything we do should be for the glorification of God! Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam!
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
You should’ve moved to an apartment, there would be no chance for your husband to ask you plant anything.
K
KnightErrantJR
Guest
Techno2000, perhaps this passage from the Bible (Matthew Chapter 20), would help to answer your questions:
2
After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3
Going out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4
2 and he said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.’
5
So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o’clock, and did likewise.
6
Going out about five o’clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
7
They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’
8
3 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’
9
When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage.
10
So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.
11
And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,
12
saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’
13
He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you. 4 Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14
5 Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you?
15
(Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’
16
6 Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last."
17
7 As Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve (disciples) aside by themselves, and said to them on the way,
18
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death,
19
and hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
20
8 Then the mother 9 of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something.
21
He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.”
22
Jesus said in reply, “You do not know what you are asking. 10 Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?” They said to him, “We can.”
23
He replied, “My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left (, this) is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
24
When the ten heard this, they became indignant at the two brothers.
25
But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt.
26
But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant;
27
whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
28
Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom 11 for many.”
(Thanks for helping me remember the chapter and verse, my dear wife BlestOne
)
Code:
1 "The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard.After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3
Going out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4
2 and he said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.’
5
So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o’clock, and did likewise.
6
Going out about five o’clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
7
They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’
8
3 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’
9
When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage.
10
So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.
11
And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,
12
saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’
13
He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you. 4 Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14
5 Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you?
15
(Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’
16
6 Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last."
17
7 As Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve (disciples) aside by themselves, and said to them on the way,
18
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death,
19
and hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
20
8 Then the mother 9 of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something.
21
He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.”
22
Jesus said in reply, “You do not know what you are asking. 10 Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?” They said to him, “We can.”
23
He replied, “My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left (, this) is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
24
When the ten heard this, they became indignant at the two brothers.
25
But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt.
26
But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant;
27
whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
28
Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom 11 for many.”
(Thanks for helping me remember the chapter and verse, my dear wife BlestOne
)
T
Techno2000
Guest
So how does this fit in:Techno2000, perhaps this passage from the Bible (Matthew Chapter 20), would help to answer your questions:
2Code:1 "The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard.
After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3
Going out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4
2 and he said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.’
5
So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o’clock, and did likewise.
6
Going out about five o’clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
7
They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’
8
3 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’
9
When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage.
10
So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.
11
And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,
12
saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’
13
He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you. 4 Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14
5 Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you?
15
(Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’
16
6 Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last."
17
7 As Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve (disciples) aside by themselves, and said to them on the way,
18
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death,
19
and hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
20
8 Then the mother 9 of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something.
21
He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.”
22
Jesus said in reply, “You do not know what you are asking. 10 Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?” They said to him, “We can.”
23
He replied, “My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left (, this) is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
24
When the ten heard this, they became indignant at the two brothers.
25
But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt.
26
But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant;
27
whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
28
Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom 11 for many.”
(Thanks for helping me remember the chapter and verse, my dear wife BlestOne
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matt 16:27
B
BlestOne
Guest
Heaven is being in the presence of God… so YES Mother Theresa and the thief on the cross are together in heaven… and why not? Isn’t God the final and only judge of our hearts? Would you also admonish St Paul? He witnessed Steven’s death and did nothing, in fact he spent a good deal of his life persecuting Jesus and the apostles… then God changed his heart. Is he less fit for heaven?
As far as Reward, merits, glory… The reward is to enter into the beatific vision isn’t it? To be one in communion with God and all the saints? There is no Merits or Glory, save those for God… We don’t deserve glory God does…
Have you forgotten that before we can enter the kingdom of God that we need to be purified? Some may need more purification than others, but the end result is the same is it not? Both creek water and sewage can be purified to the same point can they not? One just needs more purification than the other. Same concept for purgatory here… We are purified and made fit for the kingdom through purgatory… some souls may take longer, but in the end, they are just as “pure” as all the others, no matter where they started.
E
El_camino
Guest
I have to say that Protestants, especially those who believe in OSAS, believe that there are different levels or “crowns” that one receives. IF one that has been saved, starts sinning and dies in sin, when he dies he goes to a lower level of heaven, or he loses some or all of his “crowns” as protestants put it, but they still go to heaven. This, as opposed to a Christian that does not die in sin but in good fellowship with the Lord. He will get all his crowns.
Many blessings,
E.C.
T
Techno2000
Guest
, but to sit at my right and at my left (, this) is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father."Techno2000, perhaps this passage from the Bible (Matthew Chapter 20), would help to answer your questions:
2Code:1 "The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard.
After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3
Going out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4
2 and he said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.’
5
So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o’clock, and did likewise.
6
Going out about five o’clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
7
They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’
8
3 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’
9
When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage.
10
So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.
11
And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,
12
saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’
13
He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you. 4 Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14
5 Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you?
15
(Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’
16
6 Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last."
17
7 As Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve (disciples) aside by themselves, and said to them on the way,
18
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death,
19
and hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”
20
8 Then the mother 9 of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something.
21
He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.”
22
Jesus said in reply, “You do not know what you are asking. 10 Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?” They said to him, “We can.”
23
He replied, “My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left (, this) is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
24
When the ten heard this, they became indignant at the two brothers.
25
But Jesus summoned them and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt.
26
But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant;
27
whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
28
Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom 11 for many.”
(Thanks for helping me remember the chapter and verse, my dear wife BlestOne
whoever wishes to be (first) among you shall be your slave.
whoever wishes to be (great) among you shall be your servant;
Jesus is Talkin about Places in Heaven, First Place, and Greatness.
B
BlestOne
Guest
bible said:
Read all of it… Indeed what does it profit a man to have earthly rewards only to lose his soul? Jesus is admonishing the apostles to serve him without earthly rewards because the true reward is the kingdom of heaven. Verse 27 is letting the apostles know that they won’t be judged by their possessions or riches, but by how they helped their fellow man to achieve salvation, how compassionate and how they cared for others above their own needs. So what is he saying? the more you help others the more you get in heaven? Nope… he is telling them that when they are judged it will be whether they served Him or served themselves. Look at verse 28… he tells them that some will live to see him come unto his kingdom… something that the apostles thought Jesus needed to live an earthly life to achieve. Here he is telling them no… his kingdom is not on earth… therefore they should not worry about earthly rewards. The apostles are still having a hard time understanding the gift Jesus is giving all of us on the cross. Verses 21-25 are discussing Jesus telling them this is necessary and even Peter isn’t getting it… Why Jesus had to die so that we could live. So now verses 26-28 Jesus is really throwing them for a loop telling them it isn’t about earthly rewards, it is about salvation and heaven is the ultimate reward.
B
BlestOne
Guest
Jesus is talking about humility and what he calls “Poor in Spirit” (Matt ch 5). Sitting at the right hand is a reference that the people would understand. He is not talking about a physical location… he is saying if you want to be like me, do what I would do… Didn’t Jesus serve us as a slave and servant? Did he not die for our sins? So he is asking, “Are we willing to do the same?” He knows our hearts, he knows that it is those who would totally emulate him to glorify his name that are deserving of eternal life.
T
Techno2000
Guest
I’m not talking about earthly rewards I’m talking about Heavenly
rewards and some Protsetant teachings that are detrimental
to getting these Heavenly rewards like OSAS.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Why would believing in OSAS mean no rewards in heaven or am I misunderstanding you?
T
Techno2000
Guest
Hi ALLFORHIM,Hi,
Why would believing in OSAS mean no rewards in heaven or am I misunderstanding you?
I Believe you get what you deserve in Heaven.Now if the only
thing you did for Jesus is said the Sinner’s Prayer when you
was a teenager, you wont get the same reward in Heaven as
say Mother Theresa Gets, but both of you are “Saved”.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Oh ok----I believe the same thing.
There is an 81 year old man in our church who truly is on fire for the Lord. We always joke that we hope we can just be able to sleep on the steps of his mansion. At the very most be able to sweep the steps of his mansion. AND we will be joyful doing it.:extrahappy:- Status