Protestant level in Heaven

[Techno2000]

Oh ok----I believe the same thing. There is an 81 year old man in our church who truly is on fire for the Lord. We always joke that we hope we can just be able to sleep on the steps of his mansion. At the very most be able to sweep the steps of his mansion. AND we will be joyful doing it.:extrahappy:

Thank you so much for understanding me ALLFORHIM I Love You

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Carol, the answer is very simple.

If you don’t like the thread, simply do not participate.

I disagree. I am working to join the Catholic Church, attending mass and services, doing retreats, meditation, contemplation, Bible study and prayer. I have a spiritual director and attend RCIA.

I find it extremely painful to find this kind of blather on the Forum: it is disrespectful of protestants and Catholics alike. Right now I stand between the two feeling doubly bad.

Finally, please note that I am *not *participating in this thread: I am simply commenting on its awful implied precept.

 

[Techno2000]

I disagree. I am working to join the Catholic Church, attending mass and services, doing retreats, meditation, contemplation, Bible study and prayer. I have a spiritual director and attend RCIA.

I find it extremely painful to find this kind of blather on the Forum: it is disrespectful of protestants and Catholics alike. Right now I stand between the two feeling doubly bad.

Finally, please note that I am *not *participating in this thread: I am simply commenting on its awful implied precept.

Look ALLFORHIM understands what I’m saying, I’m Sorry I Lumped all Protantants in this.

(Oh ok----I believe the same thing. There is an 81 year old man in our church who truly is on fire for the Lord. We always joke that we hope we can just be able to sleep on the steps of his mansion. At the very most be able to sweep the steps of his mansion. AND we will be joyful doing it.)

 

[NotWorthy]

I disagree. I am working to join the Catholic Church, attending mass and services, doing retreats, meditation, contemplation, Bible study and prayer. I have a spiritual director and attend RCIA.

I find it extremely painful to find this kind of blather on the Forum: it is disrespectful of protestants and Catholics alike. Right now I stand between the two feeling doubly bad.

Finally, please note that I am *not *participating in this thread: I am simply commenting on its awful implied precept.

Well, as one of those who were taking part in the mindless banter about Bourbon Street, it’s a little irritating to have someone post about how mindless it is.

Sort of like standing on the street and having someone tell us that as they walk by.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thank you so much for understanding me ALLFORHIM I Love You

:hug1:

 

[cor]

The Catholic Church teaches different degrees of glory in heaven. “Levels” if you like. Here’s what the Council of Florence says:

“Also, the souls of those who have incurred no stain of sin whatsoever after baptism, as well as souls who after incurring the stain of sin have been cleansed whether in their bodies or outside their bodies, as was stated above, are straightaway received into heaven and clearly behold the triune God as he is, yet one person more perfectly than another according to the difference of their merits.”

ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM

God told us:

1Jo 3:2 “Yes, dear friends, we are already God’s children, and we can’t even imagine what we will be like when Christ returns. But we do know that when he comes we will be like him”

Atemi, as an aside, you should use a different Bible translation. That cannot even be called a “translation”; at best it can be called a “paraphrase.” Look it up in say the NASB or something and you’ll see how much it departs from the original text.

 

[Techno2000]

The Catholic Church teaches different degrees of glory in heaven. “Levels” if you like. Here’s what the Council of Florence says:

“yet one person more perfectly than another according to the difference of their merits.”

.

Thanks for posting this, I would have never found it on my own,
but just common sense should tells you that some will “MERIT”
more Glory that others.

 

[Fate]

Thanks for posting this, I would have never found it on my own,
but just common sense should tells you that some will “MERIT”
more Glory that others.

I think you are still missing the point… Here’s the original question:

I was just wondering what Degree of Glory Protestants think they are going to get in Heaven. Lets see,they don’t have to Pray,don’t have to do Good Works, and don’t even have to go to church on Sunday.So do Protestants think that they will get the same Glory that say a Mother Theresa, a Martyr,or a Great Saint will Get?

Forgive me, but this whole discussion just seems juvenile. You are standing here debating about the “merit” you’ll receive in the after life. How would you even know what God is using to measure? (Whether or not God is measuring as you percieve it is a completely seperate and valid question…) You are pasting Protestants here with a very large brush - and basically making the unsaid claim that the Catholic Holy person is greater in God’s eyes.

This is the very smug self-righteous attitude that I have spoken so many times against. I find it repugant and very un-Catholic from my experience in talking to Priests, Seminarians, friends, reading the doctrine, and going to Mass. - And I’m not a Catholic nor do I intend to be.

This sort of speech is why I no longer call myself Christian, the times I speak with God in prayer, and see His miracles in my life, have not reflected a being that would like seeing his servants care about Levels and who gets the bigger reward.

“I like your Christ - I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ” - Gandhi

 

[Techno2000]

I think you are still missing the point… Here’s the original question:

Forgive me, but this whole discussion just seems juvenile. You are standing here debating about the “merit” you’ll receive in the after life. How would you even know what God is using to measure? (Whether or not God is measuring as you percieve it is a completely seperate and valid question…) You are pasting Protestants here with a very large brush - and basically making the unsaid claim that the Catholic Holy person is greater in God’s eyes.

This is the very smug self-righteous attitude that I have spoken so many times against. I find it repugant and very un-Catholic from my experience in talking to Priests, Seminarians, friends, reading the doctrine, and going to Mass. - And I’m not a Catholic nor do I intend to be.

This sort of speech is why I no longer call myself Christian, the times I speak with God in prayer, and see His miracles in my life, have not reflected a being that would like seeing his servants care about Levels and who gets the bigger reward.

“I like your Christ - I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ” - Gandhi

I said I was Sorry in post# 82 for Lumping ALL Protestans together I meant some of the teaching of OSAS.

“I like your Christ - I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ” - Gandhi
Thats a joke with
their Caste system, Mother Theresa had to go over there and show them that people aren’t “untouchable”.

 

[Fate]

I said I was Sorry in post# 82 for Lumping ALL Protestans together I meant some of the teaching of OSAS.

“I like your Christ - I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ” - Gandhi

Thats a joke with their Caste system, Mother Theresa had to go over there and show them that people aren’t “untouchable”.

Might I repeat my above post for the OSAS variety of people? I do not agree with their theology, but I highly doubt that they all don’t pray, or go to church, or confess their sins in prayer.

I think you miss the point of the quote - one of the most influential leaders of the 20th century calling “Christians” on their non-Christian behavior. To which you respond by calling the quote a joke because of societal issues associated with this leader. Nevermind he tried to fight against the idea of ‘untouchables’ as well, even if he didn’t quite ‘get’ the issues. Nevermind as well, the ways in which the caste system was and is supported by Christian groups directly or indirectly.

I don’t really have much more to say here. This is the very attitude I spoke of earlier when discussing why I left Christianity as a whole. “Heaven” and “merits” and “glory” - as a group Christianity appears to breed elitism. But that’s ok, as someone destined for Hell, I’m sure that my arguing against that doesn’t really matter.

On several levels I find the idea of debate about who will end up in the highest place in the afterlife to be comical - maybe our time would be better spent on worrying about ending up in the ‘right’ section to start off with?

 

[NotWorthy]

Might I repeat my above post for the OSAS variety of people? I do not agree with their theology, but I highly doubt that they all don’t pray, or go to church, or confess their sins in prayer.

I think you miss the point of the quote - one of the most influential leaders of the 20th century calling “Christians” on their non-Christian behavior. To which you respond by calling the quote a joke because of societal issues associated with this leader. Nevermind he tried to fight against the idea of ‘untouchables’ as well, even if he didn’t quite ‘get’ the issues. Nevermind as well, the ways in which the caste system was and is supported by Christian groups directly or indirectly.

I don’t really have much more to say here. This is the very attitude I spoke of earlier when discussing why I left Christianity as a whole. “Heaven” and “merits” and “glory” - as a group Christianity appears to breed elitism. But that’s ok, as someone destined for Hell, I’m sure that my arguing against that doesn’t really matter.

On several levels I find the idea of debate about who will end up in the highest place in the afterlife to be comical - maybe our time would be better spent on worrying about ending up in the ‘right’ section to start off with?

So I guess you follow another group of seers:

I swear there ain’t no heaven.
but I pray there ain’t no hell

 

[Jennifer_G]

This is the sort of thread that will make any interested Protestants turn away.

I was kind of thinking the same, so I’m not going to tip my hand into the debate mostly for that reason (slightly venomous), but I’ll add my :twocents:.

Growing up Lutheran, I was basically taught that everyone is at the same “level” (not that the term was used). We believed that everyone was both a sinner and saint at the same time, thus making the distinction of saints (such as St. Francis, St. Therese, St. Isadore, and numerous others) “pointless” in that we don’t need to keep track of them. To Lutherans, Heaven is a place where your entire family (regardless of how they lived on Earth) is there, having a good time, and all pains, sorrows, problems are gone. The first time I heard of levels was when my mom was telling me what our Catholic neighbor was saying about levels in Heaven. I never really heard much about it since, either.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

I was kind of thinking the same, so I’m not going to tip my hand into the debate mostly for that reason (slightly venomous), but I’ll add my :twocents:.

Growing up Lutheran, I was basically taught that everyone is at the same “level” (not that the term was used). We believed that everyone was both a sinner and saint at the same time, thus making the distinction of saints (such as St. Francis, St. Therese, St. Isadore, and numerous others) “pointless” in that we don’t need to keep track of them. To Lutherans, Heaven is a place where your entire family (regardless of how they lived on Earth) is there, having a good time, and all pains, sorrows, problems are gone. The first time I heard of levels was when my mom was telling me what our Catholic neighbor was saying about levels in Heaven. I never really heard much about it since, either.

The way I see it is though I have no doubt there are different rooms in the mansion, we risk not getting any if we worry about which one we will get.

The humble are exhalted, the proud will know knashing of teeth.

Its important to make distinctions among saints for our own edification and examples of holyness.

No Saint will have ever exhalted themselves.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Hi ALLFORHIM,

I Believe you get what you deserve in Heaven.Now if the only
thing you did for Jesus is said the Sinner’s Prayer when you
was a teenager, you wont get the same reward in Heaven as
say Mother Theresa Gets, but both of you are “Saved”.

I would ask you to considder that you do not deserve heaven.

Instead try to realize that Gods Mercy will be more than we ever dreamed of.

Though it may be good to contemplate heaven it may be better to contemplate hell.

 

[KnightErrantJR]

Techno, I’ll pray for you, but what you are doing is very destructive. You are perpetuating stereotypes about Christianity and Catholocism, and pushing away people that might be interested or still searching for fulfillment in their faith life. Christ didn’t preach about only spreading the faith to the “right sort” of people so that everyone that you associate with in the after life would be “your kind” of people, nor did he preach the same kind of pagan doctrine that was found in Greek and Norse mythology, that there is a “deluxe Heaven” for the favored (Elysium, Valhalla), an “average Heaven” (Hades, Hel), and a “Bad Place” (Tarterus, Niffleheim).

We don’t know what Heaven will be like, but in Revelations, which is the only place we really get any kind of detail of Heaven, I don’t remember there being mansions for the saints and “worthy” and tenament housing for the people that “barely made it.”

If anyone can tell me where in tradition its explicitly spelled out that some people get the “good spots” in Heaven, I’d be interested in hearing about it. Might Christ call out those that have served him well and expound upon how they served him to the others in Heaven? I’m sure, if its His will, and this would be a form of Glory, but in the end, anyone actually concerned about their soul and in the right frame of mind to get there won’t be worried about looking better than his peers.

I’d also like to point out that assuming references to people seeing Heaven more clearly or gaining their reward is akin to a system of merit seems to be ignoring the whole idea of Purgatory. Yes, people that have led a life pleasing to God and have gone to Reconciliation and done their best to avoid sin will see Heaven sooner that the rest of us, because they will have less to work through in Purgatory. In the end, God wants us purified and as he intended us, not to create a class system where some of us can claim that we literally are, “holier than thou.”

Earlier in the thread Dante’s Divine Comedy was mentioned, as was the concept of the Seven Heavens that some Hebrews of old would speak of. Upon looking at those “Seven Heavens,” much of this reference is figurative. The Seventh Heaven is the abode of God, one of the “Heavens” is where “Hell” or “Sheol” is located, and one of the “Heavens” is the Celestial Jerusalem. In other words, its allegorical. The Divine Comedy was never Catholic Canon, it was an allegorical way of expressing spiritual matters written poetically (hence why its a work of fiction). Its no more “real” than the proper names of the Archdevils given in Paradise Lost or the allegories that C S Lewis uses in The Great Divorce.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I would ask you to considder that you do not deserve heaven.

Instead try to realize that Gods Mercy will be more than we ever dreamed of.

Though it may be good to contemplate heaven it may be better to contemplate hell.

I think we should understand what we are being saved from The more we contemplate hell the more we can be amazed at how merciful God is and how much He loves us.

I think about heaven once and awhile but I rarely think about rewards in heaven because I dont think we(humans)can even comrehend what they will be because the bible doesnt talk about them in any detail.

Honestly, I just focus on becoming more Christ-like(which boils down to serving others) and spreading the gospel message
AMEN!!!

Im saved to serve!!

 

[Fate]

So I guess you follow another group of seers:

Nope, I just don’t take forgranted I’m going to heaven - but I think heaven/hell and all are real places. It’s also something of a given that the instant you talk about not being sure about heaven, a great many people take it that your going to hell. So “my going to hell” is more representative of what other people think than myself. Whe I had a near death experience, it showed me that whatever awaits is beutiful.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Wow, I learn so many things here!

I had not realized that people out there believed that there are different levels in Heaven… Where does this belief come from? I have always believed that there is Heaven and there is Hell. You either go to one or the other. There was never a distinction of levels in my upbringing. Are there levels in Hell also?

These are completely true questions. No sarcasm behind them…

 

[lak611]

I think we should understand what we are being saved from The more we contemplate hell the more we can be amazed at how merciful God is and how much He loves us.

I think about heaven once and awhile but I rarely think about rewards in heaven because I dont think we(humans)can even comrehend what they will be because the bible doesnt talk about them in any detail.

Honestly, I just focus on becoming more Christ-like(which boils down to serving others) and spreading the gospel message
AMEN!!!

Im saved to serve!!

Great post! Becoming more Christ-like, serving others and spreading the gospel message is what the life of a Christian is all about!

 

[Techno2000]

Wow I’m shocked that people don’t want to fine out what is the Truth, are their Degrees of Glory in Heaven, are not, is it a sin to ask this Question.

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."Luke 6:38